| Author | Message | ||
     Johncr250 |
Does anyone follow this series? How is it possible that those crappy Suzuki SV650`s are able to beat the XB`s? Does anyone know the rules for the class? | ||
| José_quiñones |
The class is regulated by a Power to weight ratio(measured on a dyno and a scale) of 4 pounds per HP, ie, if the bike weighs 400 pounds wet, its only allowed 100 hp max, measured after the race. The SV's do really well at tight tracks like Summit Point and Barber, where Dave Yakoov won on both races on his 72HP, 382 pound SV. He's allowed up to 95 HP (382/4). The XB's are competitive, but the top teams (Hal's, Harding) are having reliability issues. Jeff Johnson's team (Hoban's) is not as fast as the top two XB teams but they have been more consistent. His XB, for example was measured at 100 HP and weighed 408.5 pounds after the race at Barber. Harding HD/B's Brian Bemisderfer still leads the championship, Dave Yaakov is second on his SV and Jeff Johnson is third after 5 of 7 events. | ||
| Daves |
Jeff also had one DNF due to an oil filter coming loose. Of course I always root for Jeff as it is actually Hoban Brothers/Buell of Appleton race team!  }I've known Jeff and the rest of the Hoban guys for about 5 years now, they are some of the best people I've had the pleasure of working with. Johnny even let me ride the race bike a couple weeks ago! They have had the number one plate one year and I don't think they have ever ended a season out of the top 5. Just wait til Vegas! Go Jeff! | ||
| Johncr250 |
Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like a fun class to race in. Could be one of the more affordable classes to race in too. Those SV`s are very ugly but you can pick them up pretty cheap. About $5000 out the door here. Still not sure how they can beat Buells working with 25 less HP. They must handle better. | ||
| Racerx1 |
Hey John, I race a Buell against a lot of SV650'sin Sound of Thunder Formula 2 twins. The SV's are legal for F3 twins only if they are in superstock trim (stock airbox, stock forks, stock wheels, DIT's, etc). A lot of those guys bump up to F2 class and i get to race against them. There are a lot of non-superstock SV's running F2 however as well. Its my experience that a 100hp superstock spec XB will handle a superstock spec SV with no issues, given equivalent riders. The F2 legal 'superbike' SV's are more of a handful however, as they are making good power, handle equivalent to an XB in superbike trim with GSXR forks/brakes/wheels/slicks, etc, plus they weigh less. They seem to turn in very well. Racing them in F2, it seems to come down to rider skill more than the bikes themselves. I'm sure some tracks will favor the additional 25hp for an XB, while others favor a 25 lb lighter SV. SV's are good bikes, especially when you consider the GSXR lineage and interchangeability. However, I'd still go for an XB as a racebike as it already has all the good stuff from the factory that you would end up paying a lot for on a SV: excellant fully adjustable suspension, 180 series rear tire,braided brake line(s), race ready front brake, no need for clip ons or rear sets, good aftermarket and race support.....comes down to a personal choice i guess. Mine is Buell! | ||
| Anonymous |
Believe me, Yaakov's bike is not 72HP, nor are any of the fast SV's running in Thunderbike cheap. A number of these Suzuki guys have been considering switching to Buells because they are more economical as a race package, per RacerX1's comments. | ||
| José_quiñones |
So your saying he's somehow deceiving the FUSA dyno/operator right after the race? Quick, call FUSA and let them know of your "scoop"! I was there at Summit Point, David Yaakov had the pole for Thunderbike on his SV. I watched the race from turn one, the SV's were constantly outbraking and passing the Buells there, only to be passed by the Buells down the straights. I was also standing by the dyno after the race, Yaakov's bike made "only" 70 HP. He could go up to 96 hp based on the bike's weight of 385 pounds if he was able to. So even if he was cheating he would have to make 26 more hp to bump up against the power to weight ratio and somehow hide this from the dyno operator right after the race. His bike was measured at 72 hp after the race at Barber. Again, if you have evidence he's actually making more (other than ram air at speed) and fooling the dyno, let FUSA know, they hate that stuff. (Message edited by josé_quiñones on September 06, 2004) | ||
| Blake |
A stock SV makes darn near 70 RWHP. Certainly would be very strange for a race bike to only make that amount of power. | ||
| Gearhead |
Racerx1, Don't you race a tube frame Buell? Do you find a weight to hp advantage with this set-up? I'm curious because I'd very much like to start looking for a Buell track day only bike, that if everything works out, could be raced in CCS lightweight class as well as others. Although I ride an XB I would strongly consider a tuber if it's the way to go. You input on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance... | ||
| Henrik |
With a pipe, very mild cams and Keihin flatslides, an SV will make about 85 horse at the rear wheel. If you need more than that, you'll need headwork and possibly overbore, but then you'll need to beef up the bottom end with aftermarket rods etc. Most of the serious SV racers rebuild motors quite frequently. Henrik | ||
| Blake |
Didn't FUSA switch to Superflow dyno testing, which typically yield significantly low results? | ||
| Blake |
Congratulations to 2nd place, David Yaakov for some great racing on an SV650. Apparently the rules are fairly equitable this year for the little SV's. Sure would be nice to see some Ducatis in the mix too. Here's an interesting statement... "The XB's are competitive, but" an XB is leading the championship by a signigicant 19 points with only two races remaining. Yaakov has a tenuous hold on 2nd place with a mere 6 points over third place Jeff Johnson. The SV will likely finish 3rd. Not sure if an oil filter coming loose would be characterized as a "reliability issue." That would be more of a "forgot to properly safety wire it" issue. http://www.formulausa.com/points/FUSA%20Points/document_view Buell Racers - Winners of Two of Nine FUSA Championship Series in 2003. Not bad for an underpowered antiquated bike. | ||
| Johncr250 |
Thanks for clearing that up. With only 72hp the SV of Yaakov beat the field of 100hp Buells and other bikes by 19 seconds to win at Barber. As quoted from Roadracing magazine. Sounds like the SV would make a great trackbike! | ||
| Hobanbrothers |
If I may, the only failure we had this year, contrary to DaveS' statement(he is thinking of a couple years back when that happened to us in Daytona I believe), was a valve shim that broke off a little piece that ended up locking up the oil pump. These are not stock items (valve shims)and will NEVER happen in the street application, so no worries there. It also happened at a very unfortunate time in Daytona on the warm up lap. Aside from that issue, we qualified on the pole at Road America only to jump the start and take a 1 lap penalty which really hurt, so after the first 2 races we netted only 1 pole point. But our XB has been the most reliable race bike we have ever had, Gods honest truth! The SV is probably at or above 85RWHP on a dynojet dyno, the factory dyno is a completly different animal and that is why Formula USA changed the ruling from 3.6:1 to 4.0:1 in Daytona when Dynojet chose not to work with Formula USA and they ended up getting Factory. Our XB is 114 RWHP and 110 Ft/Lbs on our dyno and typically dynos at 100 on the factory. I think Bryan Bemisderfer & Dave Estok would tell you our bikes are very close to theirs as far as speed, but we had some tire issues that have hurt our performance on the East coast races. We have that sorted out and as Blake says, you can look for Buell to be 1 & 2 in Formula USA Thunderbike! | ||
| Daves |
Sorry John, I thought that was this year. How the time flies! Dave | ||
| Racerx1 |
Gearhead, I've raced tubers for the last couple of years and just picked up a wrecked XB9 last month. Tubers are great bikes! work very well and are definately competitive and capable of winning at a regional level. Take a little bit more money to convert a tuber to a race bike vs an XB (ground clearance is the biggest issue so rear sets or equivalent are a must). Tubers are a riot on the track, as they 'talk back' to the rider quite a bit and feel like a giant supermotard bike. I've had good success with mine for sure and still enjoy riding them. I'm selling my S1 if your interested. Lots of motor goodies (fresh top end), 97hp, chain drive conversion, clip ons, pro pipe/muffler, X1 showa forks with X1 nissin caliper, race ignition, etc, etc, etc. It also has the frame modified to accept a 1999 and later under the frame exhaust. pretty much as in the photo except for the glass tail (tail is on my X1 race bike now...stock S1 tail goes with bike) no title, but bill of sale from Buell race department. race winner twice this year. $3000 obo ready to race... /image{s1} | ||
| Racerx1 |
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| Sportsman |
Notice the performance rating for Wood and Yakov, Apparently Wood only entered 1 and won it. Yakov has missed a few too. I understand Darren D. took a different tack and went for lightweight with his SV instead of hp with a bunch of carbon fiber and titianium, it seems to be working for him. I'm sure he was thinking of VIR and New Hampshire. The SV's are no closer to stock than the Buells. It is, a pro class. Anybody have thoughts on the new proposed 5.6lbs including rider, rule? I'm thinking if you're over 160lbs you're for it. | ||
| Court |
John: You have a ton of us rooting for you! Court | ||
| Blake |
What exactly is the performance rating? I didn't see an explanation of it. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
John: You have a ton of us rooting for you! I know those of us who are aware of you guys certainly are cheering you on  | ||
| Sportsman |
It's like a batting average, batting 1,000 I think means a home run every at bat. Performance rating of 1,000 means you won every time you entered. Yaakov having a higher rating but less points means he missed something somewhere. | ||
| Blake |
Just a ton? That'd only be around a dozen or so BadWebers.  Douglas (Sportsman), A batting average measures ratio of hits to at-bats, not just home-runs. The performance rating must relate to more than winning, it must also factor in finishing position. I would be interested to know how specifically it is calculated. | ||
| Sportsman |
Of course all the finishing positions have an effect on the rating. I can't find the exact #'s but it's 1,000 to win I know that. Maybe 900 for 2nd, so if those were your 2 races you'd have a 950 rating. If I find the page I'll post it. | ||
| Hobanbrothers |
Thankyou all for the support, we will need more next year as Jeff wants to do the 200 and at this point I will do it for him. We have 5 races on our XB without fail and I believe our platform will do it, we will have to figure out tires and gas issues and I do not think it will come cheap. Jeff has always wanted to do the Daytona 200 and now we will have a chance to do it on a Buell! | ||
| Daves |
We might just have to go to Daytona this year! Wonder if I can talk Kandie into it? Dave | ||
| Sportsman |
Yes sir! I'm hoping Hoban and all the fast Buell teams give it a go. Good for Buell and good for the AMA. Good luck in Vegas and Homestead. | ||
| Kandie |
Remember we hated Florida when we rode down there?? | ||
| Davefl |
I will be there and I think it would be a great idea to make the race the Daytona Bike Week BRAG event next year. | ||
| Daves |
Yeah but this time we'd get to see Jeff race! Dave | ||
| Sportsman |
performance index = [(T-A)/T]*1000 where T = total number of people in your races, including yourself A = total number of people who finished ahead of you | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Thanks for that Sportsman. I was just checking out the series points today and was wondering how they came up with the numbers. I would have thought how many races you ran that year would have factored too, but I guess not...Or maybe so?? If you don't attend races, does that add to the peeps who finished ahead of you? |
