| Author | Message | ||
     Classax |
I don't know about you guys, and I know 10 seconds is an eternity, but I'm always well with in 9 to 12 seconds of the lap record anytime I go to a brand new track. Heck I mean May has had all of a full 8 laps and Yates 14. They should be in the top 2 at least. I mean how long does it take to find breaking markers, turn in, and shift points, 8 laps is more than enough, 14 is a disgrace! " I almost agree" this is a lost cause. I doubt they will even make the grid. The whole EBR/Hero team should just go  themselves. Its over. EBR WSBK effort  after 1.14 rounds. Oh the horror. Excuse me while I book a flight to the UK so I that I may attend the egg sucking University. | ||
| Trojan |
I might agree with you.... except that there are other riders and teams who have never raced at Aragon before who are a long way ahead of the EBR team right now (Leon camier hadn't even seen his BMW before this weekend I think- but then he is a world class rider), so lack of track time/knowledge and experience are no excuse. The team deliberately chose to hire two riders with no experience of WSB tracks, and then decided not to test at any of the tracks they actually race on, so they cannot use those facts as an excuse for being slower than the rest of the field. The blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the team unfortunately. 8 seconds off the lead is an age in WSB and even if you discount the actual distance in time the relative positions are poor. This isn't a back yard dealer team running an EVO bike on a small budget, but supposedly a full factory effort with a huge sponsor behind them. How long will the 'we have never raced here', 'we haven't done enough testing' and the 'it is just a learning year' excuses keep them afloat? Sorry to appear harsh but that is the reality. When you enter WSB you don't get any favours or excuses, you are either good enough or you are not. I hope that the EBR team can pull it together soon because at the moment it is looking pretty poor. | ||
| Crusty |
Aw, cheer up. If EBR continues to do poorly, it'll give you something to crow about. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Better in FP2 Yates 2.04.075 May 2.05.593 | ||
| Ebmachine |
It looks like a steady improvement. At least they are faster than the fastest 600s this round. | ||
| Classax |
I will concede they are still shocking way down on speed in comparison to the rest of the field. Will EBR be a perpetual "also ran" in WSBK, may be may be not, even if it currently appears so. I think the team has stated their goals and objectives clearly and are tracking towards them. I LOVE my EBR 1190RX, are there faster more power machines, for the money? certainly, are there any that suit my ergonomics, riding, life, and sense of style better, not currently. The goal for the WSBK effort was to demonstrate the 1190RX is a world class machine, to many that means many things, but in the culture from which the machine originates, that means being able to operate at the highest levels of competition, not necessarily winning. If you compete in the Olympics no matter where you finish, Gold medal or last you are still qualified to call yourself an Olympian. My objective would be to win but the reality is they don't have the resources( riders, data, experience and apparently machine) to do that right now. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Facebook update just posted from the team:
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| Reepicheep |
Go EBR! | ||
| Pjd2ss |
After FP2 at Aragon, the RXs are still down by 20-40 kph on top speed compared to most of the field. The top 10 are running top speed of 304 to 327 kph. Is this just an HP thing? Or is there something else going on? 25 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 288,8 27 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 288,0 | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ I'd say something else is going on. 288 kph = 179 MPH. Cory West was turning regular 190+ MPH (~306 kph) laps on the AMA Superbike at Daytona a couple of months ago, so the bikes are certainly capable of more top speed. I'd guess they're still working towards finding optimum gearing. The final drive ratio that produces the quickest lap may not allow the highest top speed. (Message edited by Hughlysses on April 11, 2014) | ||
| Gregtonn |
So, should the races be run or should we declare win, lose and place based on practice times, top speeds, gainsaying and speculation? All for racing declare Aye. All against declare Nay. G Aye | ||
| Snowscum |
"By April, in Aragon, we will bring some more substantial updates, such a new gearbox and swingarm, which are currently standard," Bardi added. "Here, we only brought some minor components, such as a bigger fuel tank that stretches out under the rider's seat, because we need 24 liters to cover the whole race distance, but the bike is basically running on AMA specs with Öhlins suspensions and Magneti Marelli ECU." Did this happen? | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Supposedly the new parts are on hand and were tested at another track in Spain earlier this week. Official Team Hero/EBR press release on today's practice: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=b1bd461afd | ||
| Gschuette |
Trojan, that's not harsh it's simply the reality that most here are not facing very well. The preparation level in my eyes (admittedly an outsider) is lacking. The "we haven't seen/tested/ridden/raced this track" excuse is so maddening because it was avoidable if they only hired a WSBK vet. It didn't have to be a Carlos Checa type but at least someone who had raced all the tracks on the circuit. The EBR effort thus far and the majority of Badweb reactions to the effort are maddening. My head is further impacted against the wall when I read well thought out post after well thought out post from Trojan being dismissed as unamerican or otherwise negatively biased and brushed aside. Unloading 8+ seconds off the pace as a factory team in WSBK is unacceptable. Claims to the contrary are akin to polishing a turd. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I agree ...... They should have hired a WSBK vet ..... Also the engine is not making enough power ..... Compared to the Factory Ducati (also a Vtwin), the EBR is 25 km/h slower ...... This is not something that gear/final drive ratios will fix ... | ||
| Court |
I'm enjoying the heck out of the entire WSBK experience and am thrilled. That's simply my personal opinion. I suspect some will join me as time passes. We'll see, | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
I love EBR, I don't expect them to win however, when you want to build a performance brand..I'm afraid being last only damages the "brands" imagine and does not attract new buyers. | ||
| Classax |
Aye! Let's go racing! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I'm enjoying the heck out of the entire WSBK experience and am thrilled. That's simply my personal opinion. I suspect some will join me as time passes. We'll see, The problem is Court, WSBK racing should not be treat like London Bridge where some wealthy American can buy anything he wants and put it where he wants. Those kind of activities are frowned upon over here . We take WSBK racing very seriously. To just come along and have a go because you can, even if you're going to be running at or near the back, only serves to dilute how special the series is. What they should do to prevent American manufacturers making this their hobby racing series is introduce a rule where consistent poor performing gets a team kicked out of the series. Like how it was in boxing, when a fighter stepped backwards he was disqualified. Rocket in England | ||
| 46champ |
I hope I am wrong but I am starting to get the feeling that this years WSB effort was done on a spur of the moment. I wonder if 2014 was going to be another factory AMA superbike effort then go wsb in 2015, but the fact that the domestic series is in such turmoil that they felt they had to do something different. I think the efforts to get the 11190RX into production and homologated that not enough time and personnel was left to do the WSB effort justice. Obviously by Bimota's example they did not have to produce the required number of bikes. Not that the viewing public would care they will just see it as Bimota good EBR bad. (Message edited by 46champ on April 12, 2014) | ||
| Gregtonn |
The problem is Court, WSBK racing should not be treat like London Bridge where some wealthy American can buy anything he wants and put it where he wants. The First Buell "The Buell RW750 was a two-stroke, ‘square-four’ racer that ran in the 1983 AMA Formula One series. It was originally the flawed creation of an obscure Welsh engine maker called Barton, but Buell ingeniously re-engineered it, building a competitive bike that was clocked at 178 mph at Talladega. Then the AMA changed the regulations and the RW (‘Road Warrior’) became redundant overnight. Still, it was enough to launch Erik’s career. And I suspect—indeed hope—we haven’t heard the last of him." London Bridge, Lake Havasu City, Arizona London Bridge is a bridge in Lake Havasu City, Arizona, United States. It is a relocated 1831 bridge that formerly spanned the River Thames in London, England, (and was falling down) until it was dismantled in 1967. The Arizona bridge is a reinforced concrete structure clad in the original masonry of the 1830s bridge, which was bought by Robert P. McCulloch from the City of London. ------ Both are flawed British creations saved by Americans. I have been on both. The London bridge is a rather ordinary looking bridge which I wonder it if Sean has ever seen in reality. G | ||
| Gaesati |
Rocket, re your London bridge analogy, Consider the Elgin marbles lifted by Lord Elgin from Athens in the 19th century. Half wound up at the bottom of the sea and half are still in the British Museum despite more than half a century of Greek requests to get them back. At least the Americans bought the bridge. Also re: "running at or near the back" somebody has to. Think about the many years that Cagiva persevered with their non-competitive moto Gp bikes. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
hahaha ...... I like you Gaesati ! | ||
| Hughlysses |
If any of you want to watch, apparently, superpole qualifying will be shown live here at 8:50 AM EDT: http://www.vipboxus.co/motorsports/221165/1/wsbk-g p-aragon,-spain-:-superpole---qualifying-live-stre am-online.html (Link found on WSBK thread at ADVrider) | ||
| Trojan |
Both are flawed British creations saved by Americans. I have been on both. London Bridge stood perfectly well for over 100 years in the original spot before it was sold to a gullible guy who allegedly thought he had bought Tower Bridge. Before that there has been a bridge in the same spot for around 1000 years. Hardly a flawed product in my eyes. The original Barton/Sparton two stroke was built by a guy who could only dream of the facilities that EBR has. Why didn't it succeed? because he never had the facilities or money to develop it further and the class moved on (exactly as it did after Erik built his RW750). You have to remember that a Barton still apparently holds a lap record around the Isle of Man though, so it was hardly that flawed either. Britain haas a habit of selling its genius ideas for some reason. very few of them are actually flawed.... Harrier jump jet anyone? As for WSB, does anyone actually know for a fact why the EBR bikes are so slow in practice? The EVO bikes are running Superstock spec engines so should in theory be slower than all of the factory bikes regardless of make/rider. Aaron Yates was slowest of all in FP4 at 'just' 285kmh which is quite frankly pedestrian by WSb standards. May was only a bit faster at around 295 I think (compared to 320 ish for the leaders). | ||
| Court |
Hahahahah . . . .makes one want to toss in the fact that Britian wouldn't fund the Harrier design and ended up going to NATO for funding under the joint weapons designs . . . nah. :-) Back to the topic . . >>>>does anyone actually know for a fact why the EBR bikes are so slow in practice? Yes | ||
| Mackja |
It is necessary to give this program time to mature, not going to happen over night. look at Josh Herrin, he is riding the same bike that many others are, right now he is at the bottom of the time sheet, but he will progress and move up, he has the talent, just needs the time and coaching to get there. Two races and most of you are throwing in the towel, give it time!! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Qualifying on NOW. WATCH and quit bitchin'!!!!!  http://www.vipboxus.co/motorsports/221165/1/wsbk-g p-aragon%2C-spain-:-superpole---qualifying-live-st ream-online.html I just turned it on about 5 minutes ago. One of the Suzukis apparently dumped a bunch of oil in the pits which they're cleaning up at present. (Message edited by Hughlysses on April 12, 2014) | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ One of the riders just said a Kawasaki blew up on the track. Anyway, there's oil all over which has just about been cleaned up. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Depending on your point of view then! Barton's creation was not flawed at all. Barton didn't have the success that Erik managed, but had Barton afforded himself the finances, backers, whoever, and perhaps not been nobbled by some in the industry, who knows where his bikes could have gone. It's a little churlish to call Barton's creation flawed when in fact Barton was a brilliant engineer and somewhat a pioneer for two wheeled engineering. As for London Bridge, it was closed for some time before dismantled. I don't recall how long as I was about six years old. But yes it's entirely possible dad transported me over it many times. I certainly remember him telling me about the story often. As a small child, even now I remember then how daft many thought the whole debacle! See, as a child London was almost a second home to me. I've even been to the top of the Post Office Tower a few times, long before the IRA bomb closed it to the public. Whoopiedoo  Nostalgia this is not however. Americans anytime soon will not be rescuing the WSBK series. It's pretty great as it is. What it doesn't require is any manufacturer, whether they be American, German, Italian, Indian or otherwise, coming along and using the series (because they happen to be able to fit the rules to race) to promote themselves and their own agendas which do little to contribute to the series or the racing. WSBK is not a platform to gain kudos. It's a platform to earn kudos. I'm not saying this is EBR's mantra. But if it is I'm not interested in cheering them on to play at the back. When EBR announced it's intentions to race in WSBK I took them at their word. I did not for myself personally, place exceptions or allowances for them to do so. I took it to mean, they are ready and have something to surprise and wonderfully shock us all. If they don't, I'd rather them pack up, feck off, go play in a domestic series I've little interest in. I fear the embarrassment of constant failure may force me to sell my Buell otherwise. Me unable to fight off the harsh criticism the tough world of racing fans here presents me. Rocket in England |
