| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Well played Ducati, well played.  | ||
| Trojan |
They should slink home quietly and build a world beating superbike. Like Aprilia did, and Ducati....and Honda come to that. All of the above world beating bikes were developed in WSb competition and all came out winning in their first season. I'm not suggesting that EBR should not be racing in WSB, only that the belief that teams go racing just to develop road bikes is rubbish. They are in racing for exactly the eame reason as everyone else, to win and advertise their brand. Then they should hire a couple of experienced race winning WSBK riders, test only at venues where the other teams are testing at, then they can dominate the series. Which is just how Kawasaki did it  | ||
| Jaimec |
I suspect the "Business Reason" to race is to gain valuable development information and PROFIT by it, rather than just dump money into a hidden development project outside of prying eyes (where it would simply be a money pit). Get sponsor dollars, get publicity... that's SECOND to stress-testing all of your engineering concepts in a laboratory like no other. | ||
| Classax |
The reason that pretty much every team goes racing is to win (or get as close as possible). That is the whole point of racing anything from lawn mowers to F1 and everything in between. Any team that says otherwise is just telling huge porky pies or wrapping it up in PR BS I'm afraid. Matt you're a great guy and know a ton about racing but you don't seem to understand racers. What makes local guys get out there and attempt to make the field with the Pro's when they come to town? Surely not the idea that they might win the race? Most know they haven't got a snowball's chance in a furnace of actually running in the front or middle for that matter, let alone winning. Why even blow the entry fee money, why risk getting hurt or destroying equipment when we KNOW we might not even be fast enough to make the grid? Sure they WANT to win but the reality is they are out there scrapping up sponsors and saving their pennies because they ENJOY it, even WHEN they come in last. If your objective as a bike manufacturer is just to test and develop new parts for road bikes then you can do that much easier and certainly much more cost effectively by testing in private. That way you can change whatever you like, whenever you like and test for huge mileages without all the rules, limited track time and other kerphuffle of racing aginst other people. Racing is probably the most expensive and least efective way of testing parts. Not if you love racing and make products for people who love racing. If your aim is to advertise your brand then you can't achieve that by running around at the back of the field, as that only generates mostly negative publicity (if that) and very very little TV exposure. Which means that you have to in the top 5 really to get any decent TV coverage and achieve your advertising aims. I think the facts bare record that you are wrong. EBR/Hero is not only getting more press out of WSBK than they could ever buy. They are getting it Globally and more eyes are watching to see if they fail that would ever thought of about them ever. Long term, running in the back may be negative but its only been one round, and they almost made superpole. Either way, nobody goes racing at WSB level intending to just ride around and enjoy themselves for an afternoon. I bet if you took a poll here in the states you could find at least 1000 club racing experts who would sell their mother-in-law on ebay for the privilege to ride around and enjoy themselves in a world superbike race for an afternoon. Like I said, I can see your points, I understand them, but you clearly don't understand or grasp the other side of this coin. That some people actually race for the passion of racing, not necessarily just for the purse at the finish line. That's OK, cause you're still ok me. Let's agree to disagree. (Message edited by Classax on April 07, 2014) | ||
| Court |
I'm waging that both EBR and HERO will benefit, in a huge way, from participation in World Super Bike Racing. There are some really smart and focused folks involved in this. In addition, they have the ability to change direction, dial in mid-course corrections and refocus resources in the span of hours, not months. ONLY . . . my personal opinion. | ||
| Bads1 |
In WSB it is to win. Erik was a racer true to his heart way before he was doing what he is now. You can bet he wants to win. He like many understand maybe out of the gate it won't happen but from the years of talking to him to watching what he has even tried to accomplish with the air cooled bikes in AMA FX class years ago he wants to win. Bank on it. Now lets see if this dream can come true like the dream hes living presently. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
As I think (did I?) I said before. No one in this topic is having a pop at EBR. Just questioning the way they're going about certain things is all. No one here needs to be getting bent out of shape over differences of opinion. I think we all want EBR to do bloody well don't we? We just have differences of opinion about how EBR are going to achieve that. What I'd like to know is when are EBR going to turn their racer for the road into a Streetfighter. It seems to me EBR have a bike here which could topple the Aprilia Tuono V4 off top spot. Or at least give it a run for its money! One thing is sure. A naked EBR will be a true minimalist Streetfighter, unlike the Tuono which is a bit lardy at least in appearance.  Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
Well said Dana. I think you nailed it. Court too as usual. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Just questioning the way they're going about certain things is all. And . . don't you . . . . for one minute . . . think there are plenty of folks who are entertained watching a bunch of wannabe racers second guessing a group of pros. About all I know about racing is: 1) I like to watch. 2) The hot dogs are overpriced. | ||
| Mcgiver |
Wow, Erik Buell is doing things differently than everyone else. That sure is unlike him!  | ||
| Splatter |
Last on the track is still ahead of first in the stands. | ||
| Crusty |
About all I know about racing is: 1) I like to watch. 2) The hot dogs are overpriced. Go to the Springfield Mile and try a Rib Eye sandwich. They're priced high, but worth every cent. | ||
| Trojan |
I bet if you took a poll here in the states you could find at least 1000 club racing experts who would sell their mother-in-law on ebay for the privilege to ride around and enjoy themselves in a world superbike race for an afternoon. I understand racers and know that if you go to a club level or national level event you will have people there who race purely for the fun. If you speak to MotoGp riders they will say the same of course. That suddently changes though when you put them on an uncompetitive bike - then the fun seems to stop!. Ask Valentino Rossi how much fun he had at Ducati for 2 years? However.....When you get to WSB/MotoGP level the financial input and pressures are such that just riding for enjoyment becomes either a very rich mans dream or a secondary influence. if you are spending maybe 10 million Euros a year (BMW budget) then simple racing for the enjoyment comes pretty far down the list of priorities. I'm sure all the individual in team EBR are there because they enjoy it, that's a given (as are all the other players), but you can't really explain away racing at that level for a factory team, or the input of a lot of Hero's money simply because it is 'fun'. There are a lot more dynamics at play than that. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The differences of opinion I was referring to has nothing to do with EBR doing things different. My point has no bearing in EBR being smart, so let's not sugar coat it puleeeze. But yes fine, have a difference of opinion (make excuses for). We don't have to agree but we all want the same result was my ONLY point. When comparing to other teams, there is no way EBR can benefit from testing at a club circuit when the opposition is testing at the track YOU and they are going to be racing on soon after. This is not to say EBR won't benefit themselves. I'm sure they will. That is what testing is all about. But they will most definitely not gain any advantage what so ever against any other team which tested at the official test where a WSBK race will take place for all the teams racing. You will have given them an advantage. Plain and simple. So whilst non of us know why EBR chose to test at a lesser circuit, the obviousness of what I said above is clear to some, and carries a weight of disappointment with it as a consequence. Yes I am happy to see EBR in WSBK. They've made it. One race in though, the honeymoon is over. This is the harsh reality of racing. An EBR running at the back, a Works entry at that, will be a laughing stock to motorcycle racing fans should EBR not look to be improving since their first outing. It's a cruel sport after all, and EBR known as Buell do not have a great reputation for performance having built their company reputation on a long history of Harley V twin engines, and the not so long lived 1125's been a sales flop. This adding fuel to the 'what the hell are they doing in WSBK' fan brigade. And yes reputations can soar or be rebuilt even, at later stages (races) but it doesn't look good from the outside looking in, if things continue to be lacklustre well into the season. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
It's a cruel sport after all, and EBR known as Buell do not have a great reputation for performance having built their company reputation on a long history of Harley V twin engines, and the not so long lived 1125's been a sales flop. This adding fuel to the 'what the hell are they doing in WSBK' fan brigade. And yes reputations can soar or be rebuilt even, at later stages (races) but it doesn't look good from the outside looking in, if things continue to be lacklustre well into the season. My sentiments entirely. There is an army of people out there who are only to happy to slag EBR/Buell off at any opportunity, and given some of the previous race •••• ups and mistakes they have had some reason in the past. The point now is not to give them any ammunition to be able to hang out the same old headlines once again. The EBR team is multinational team run from Italy, so please don't take my comments as any anti american or anti EBr diatribe. I want them to do extremely well in WSb so do get frustrated when I see the team doing things that don't make a lot of sense in terms of being compeitive at this level. testing at a known track used by the series to race on has inumerable benefits over testing alone at a non series circuit. You get experience of the track (which both riders desperately need), you get to set the bike up for a track you will return to to race on, you get to establish a baseline of performance against your opposition and your riders get to see how the other guys ride. It really is a win win situation and one that should be exploited to the full. This is what makes me think that the team simply were not ready in time to test with the other teams at Jerez, otherwise there is no reason for them not to do it. | ||
| Firstbuell |
I wonder how all this carping will look in just a few months, at season's end..... | ||
| Trojan |
carping or constructive criticism? 2 nations separated by a common language | ||
| Hughlysses |
Short update on EBR testing: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=4e1a0b50bc | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Yep that pretty much confirms they're struggling with pace, and not just with the bike, but the team. I suspect Budget is a concern also. Why not take the extra week in Spain doing the official test, and add the club circuit test also if you've time to spare and need to test. WSBK on a shoe string? Not looking great for Aragon it being fairly obvious from that statement EBR intend to use the race for further testing. A straight race would be something else to look forward to. Rocket in England | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The EBR bikes are improving, no question about it........... To the people that do not seem to get it... It will take EBR for almost a year for consistent top 6-10 finishes. It took BMW and Aprilia that long, in their first year .... If they gain an extra 20km/h of top speed that was missing in Philip Island (too much oil ? + new map), the Superpole qualification looks pretty close for Geoff ....... I hope he can ride to his 90%.... | ||
| Classax |
Yep that pretty much confirms they're struggling with pace, and not just with the bike, but the team. I suspect Budget is a concern also. Why not take the extra week in Spain doing the official test, and add the club circuit test also if you've time to spare and need to test. WSBK on a shoe string? Not looking great for Aragon it being fairly obvious from that statement EBR intend to use the race for further testing. A straight race would be something else to look forward to. Rocket in England WTH?!?!? Is it the constantly gloomy weather there that makes you so negative? How the heck did you get it "confirms they are struggling with pace" and will use the "race for further testing" from that press release? It was clear at PI that they had mechanical or electrical issues as the bikes were not even running street bike type trap speeds, yet one of them would have been in superpole, with all things being equal, that would have netted a top 15 finish on a bike that we all admit clearly had some sort of technical issues holding it back. If Geoff was on track to make super pole at PI on the exact same set up that saw Aaron getting lapped, THAT'S SCARRY! No wonder he crashed. He "May" well have earned more of my respect for that. With a V twin gearing is critical as you have fewer RPM to work with so you have to gear to make them all count. Teams are always trying new suspension and electronics. Generally speaking one does fine tune their set up on race weekend during practice and dials it in for the race or perhaps for race two. I don't know why they didn't test in Jerez, I would have liked them to. But then again they did NOT get rained on or have to shorten most of their test sessions like everyone else at Jerez. Just for the record the teams are afforded a limited number of tests at their designated test track throughout the season. Who's to say they aren't banking them for test later on when they know they are more competitive and it matters more. TEAM stated goals Check: PI- Have both riders make the grid and complete both races. 50% May got hurt. Aragon- Have both riders make the grid, compete in Superpole and complete both races- Sounds reasonable to me. Rocket you will either prove to be completely obtuse or clairvoyant about their performance in this next race but I'm putting my money on the former. | ||
| Trojan |
How the heck did you get it "confirms they are struggling with pace" and will use the "race for further testing" from that press release? I have no idea how their testing went, although the wording of the press release does seem to be very subdued compared to what I would cosnider 'normal' team PR BS. Geoff May says the test was 'positive' while Yates was even more damning with faint praise '“We tested a lot of different solutions, some that were positive and were a step forward. It was a good test and it helped us to know which direction to move. ' From that you could read that some solutions were NOT positive or a step forward, and that although the know the direction they need to go in they are not there yet. From experience of reading many thousands of team press releases over the years I would deduce that either they have an inexperienced PR writer in that team or the test wasn't particularly very positive. We shall only know when they line up on Saturday for qualifying. | ||
| Hughlysses |
From experience of reading many thousands of team press releases over the years I would deduce that either they have an inexperienced PR writer in that team or the test wasn't particularly very positive. Or there's always the possibility that the tests went astoundingly well and the writer is an experienced counter-intelligence expert and this lukewarm press release is intended to induce a false sense of ease among their competitors.  | ||
| Court |
>>>From that you could read that some solutions were NOT positive or a step forward, Duh . . .you gotta love the internet. Isn't that . .. help me here . . the very reason for testing? | ||
| Fast1075 |
Never show the competition all you have, only just enough. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Well Classax, it appears Matt read the same press release I did. Maybe our sense of reality became lost in translation. Either that or it's in the ocean with other things not easy to find for the Americans!  Rocket in England | ||
| Bads1 |
Sean knock it off with the American shit. Its kinda insulting to me and some others. What I can say about the press release is it was vague. Other teams talk of what they improved. They spoke of nothing about how far they were down on power and if they have improved that area?? | ||
| Gregtonn |
wet blanket n. Informal One that discourages enjoyment or enthusiasm. ------------------------------------------- wet blanket n 1. a person whose low spirits or lack of enthusiasm have a depressing effect on others Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged ---------------------------------------- wet blanket n. a person or thing that dampens or discourages one's enthusiasm or enjoyment. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms Noun 1. wet blanket - someone who spoils the pleasure of others killjoy, party pooper, spoilsport colloquialism - (a colloquial expression; characteristic of spoken or written communication that seeks to imitate informal speech) unwelcome person, persona non grata - a person who for some reason is not wanted or welcome fuss-budget, fusspot, worrier, worrywart - thinks about unfortunate things that might happen ------------------------------ I blame it on the dreary climate in some areas of Europe. G | ||
| Hootowl |
I find it to be friendly banter. An insult among friends, not meant to be vindictive. And if not, piss off! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Sean knock it off with the American shit. Its kinda insulting to me and some others. I do apologise. I was merely making light of the difference in understanding the press release between a couple of Brits and some Americans. It's as hard for me to explain (as a Brit) how I read it as it is in fact to find a plane lost in an ocean. But you're right. The plane will be found (by a Brit) Rocket in England |
