| Author | Message | ||
     Gschuette |
That's great you think it's a fast bike but in the real WSBK world it's slow until proven otherwise. | ||
| Xb1125r |
gshuette, why are you such a hater. are you French or something | ||
| M1combat |
HP requirement doesn't go up linearly with speed. HP requirement goes up with the square of the speed. Hitting 200MPH on a racetrack is a huge task. Hitting 136 is childs play. I'm not saying they can't do it... I'm just saying it's a big deal. | ||
| Classax |
I think it(top speed) has more to do with gearing and aerodynamics than raw HP. The RX is geared the same as the 1125r, which makes it a very versatile street and track day tool but not necessarily a top speed king. I mentioned what I experienced because the engine is only just starting to make its real power at 7 grand and it charges there with AUTHORITY in any gear. In my case coming out of a 65mph turn in 3rd. Based on my size (DRAG) and weight and the fact that the stock bikes seem able to achieve speeds higher than what they were getting at PI, I'm confident assuming they have gotten the niggles fixed, that a fly weight like Geoff can tuck in enough to get close and be competitive with the rest of the field. (Message edited by Classax on March 12, 2014) | ||
| M2typhoon |
Finally, a real interview with the team manager. http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2014/The+EBR+project+with+Giulio+Bardi (Message edited by m2typhoon on March 13, 2014) | ||
| Gschuette |
I'm not a hater. I'm a realist and I realize the joe schmo rider experience on a streetbike doing 136 is of no relevance to a World Superbike Spec machine that needs to be doing 200+. Like M1combat said HP and speed are not a linear function. I'm as big a Buell fan as any but I'm not going to give them a free pass. As someone else said, they have racing in their name now! They decided to go to WSBK before being competitive in AMA. I'm a fan and am pulling for them but to go easy on them is pointless. Erik had his hands tied at HD for a long time and to his benefit the AMA was WAY lax with the rule book with the various XB and 1125 racing platforms. He isn't shackled by HD anymore. If he wants to play with the big boys that's great and I'll be a fan until the end, but the time for excuses ended in 2009. | ||
| Gregtonn |
190.718 mph at Daytona. G | ||
| Classax |
I realize the joe schmo rider experience on a streetbike doing 136 is of no relevance to a World Superbike Spec machine that needs to be doing 200+ First off its not joe schmo...lol And we are in total agreement,  I was just commenting on the fact that at PI they went slower than even what the street bikes are capable of, which leads me to believe they can improve at least to that level on the top end. Even so, the way the bike is geared its going to be tough to get to 200mph without finding a way to get more topend RPMs before it all goes KA-BOOM. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I'm not going to give them a free pass. Since when has EBR ever asked anyone for any kind of "pass"? Critics suck! Don't be one. That's me not giving you a free pass.  | ||
| Bads1 |
I don't think hes a critic. Hes saying like it is Blake. | ||
| Gschuette |
Ok if not a free pass then how about this. I won't view the WSBK program through rose tinted glasses. I don't give two craps about personal free passes or a hard time. This isn't a thread about my race performance. Also track trap speeds and street bike top speeds are again hardly comparable. Hell top speeds at Phillip island and Daytona aren't even comparable. No one ever brings up how long it takes a stock RX to reach Vmax. Great a stock 1190 is supposedly faster than a WSBK spec 1190 trap. The WSBK bike only has do long on a circuit to get up to speed. This is a real race not a bench racing spec sheet comparison. Let's make a deal. Stop bringing up street spec performance numbers. It means jack in the second most prestigious race series in the world. The Buell is way down in speed. The end. Go EBR! | ||
| Gschuette |
Critics suck. Lol Groupthink, yes men, and in the box thinking. All hallmarks of spectacular failures throughout history. | ||
| Blake |
It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat. None of us, especially you GS, have anything to do with the EBR/Hero WSB effort. To pretend that our authoritarian critiques are somehow relevant to the efforts of those actually in the fray is just incredibly arrogant. Don't you agree? Again, this is me not giving you a free pass.  | ||
| Classax |
Great a stock 1190 is supposedly faster than a WSBK spec 1190 trap.  No one ever said or intimated that. What I alluded to was the FACT that they obviously, as has been confirmed by the team, had some issues that made the bike perform particularly poorly at Phillip Island. Slower than the AMA spec bikes, slower even than other "basically stock" EVO bikes, and yes slower even than what a properly functioning street bike seems capable of, despite having a much larger than average rider aboard. The team says they got a handle on that particular problem and they should be up to snuff at Aragon. No one ever brings up how long it takes a stock RX to reach Vmax. I'll let you know soon enough. Texas World Speedway is fast approaching.  The WSBK bike only has so long on a circuit to get up to speed. The RS has shown speeds north of 190mph on various tracks in the AMA, nearly all the tracks in WSBK are longer and faster with longer straights and faster sweepers than the tracks in the US which are generally speaking, tighter and more technical. In other words there will be more room and opportunities to fully wind the bikes out in WSBK than in the AMA. Let's make a deal. Stop bringing up street spec performance numbers. It means jack in the second most prestigious race series in the world. The Buell is way down in speed. The end. Fair enough but: *street specs are a good comparative starting point for assessing what the EVO bikes should be capable of. (true EBR is running SBK, but it should at least perform at EVO spec levels if operating properly) *the whole series goes EVO next year, *since you're being all technical and stuff, they're EBR's not Buells  *Yes, as has been repeatedly stated, based on gearing and redline, the EBRs will likely always be down on top end compared to the higher revving machines.  * This is just the beginning! And that IS what makes it AWESOME!  Now go have a beverage of your choice on me my friend, because we are boxing out of the same corner. Go EBR! (no emoticons were harmed in the composition of this post) | ||
| Gschuette |
"Blake, the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment." | ||
| Reepicheep |
So is your point that if I'm not willing to condemn the EBR/Hero WSBK program as a whole because of a sub par trap speed after their first season in WSBK, and after their first race of that first season, I'm a yes man victim of groupthink that is unable to think out of the box? I guess I can get out of my box by rooting for a yamazukiasaki gsxr1z1000 inline four cylinder Asian motorcycle. Thanks for showing me the way out to original thinking. | ||
| Court |
That was funny enough to break the monotony of my day . . . . (which was less fun after the helicopter ripped the arm off the tower this morning . . . oooooooops) | ||
| Hughlysses |
On a related note, Cory West turned a trap speed of 197.628 MPH on one lap this morning. That seems to make it pretty clear that the EBR bikes are capable of much higher top speeds than they demonstrated at Phillip Island. | ||
| Gschuette |
Now we have ultra broad paint strokes applied to my comment. Brilliant! | ||
| 46champ |
Looks to me like Cory running a 197 trap is when he is getting a tow. Without the tow his trap speed seems to be 191-192. | ||
| Blake |
>>> personal rancor Huh? Sorry, I have none of that to share. Only friendly observation and advise. You know, not giving you a free pass. That's a positive thing, yes? | ||
| Gschuette |
It's a movie quote. Never mind | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
On a related note, Cory West turned a trap speed of 197.628 MPH on one lap this morning. That seems to make it pretty clear that the EBR bikes are capable of much higher top speeds than they demonstrated at Phillip Island. You are fibbing!!!! 200mph is just nuts  Rocket in England | ||
| Reepicheep |
The problem is that we don't know where that speed was relative to a draft. If he was drafting it means nothing. (Or do we?) It's a new motor. It's an obvious problem, one of many that we all knew would have to be developed. They will get it. | ||
| Hughlysses |
As I watched the live timing, Cory was consistently turning 190-192 MPH trap speeds. I'd imagine the ~198 MPH trap speed was when he was drafting. I do think it's reasonable to say that when it's running properly, the 1190 is much faster than the speeds from Phillip Island were indicating. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Look, when I did the 130 Club at Bonneville on JVV's S1, I hit 144mph and broke out. Getting back to Team Elves pit they were upset for me but I was the happiest camper there. In fact I did a headstand to celebrate. To me I was the fastest Buell rider there save for the RR1000 record breaker. I know this is racing. And WSBK racing at that, so it's serious. But I argued back in the day for a road legal Buell to break 150mph. This tells me they're close to 200mph and that could just as well be achieved on a road legal 1190EBR. That is legendary. I'm pretty sure the race bikes will only get better and faster from this point. The obvious clue, as if there are not enough, is EBR Hero mean business. Rocket in England | ||
| Hughlysses |
A couple of decent EBR pics from a thread at ADVrider: Geoff at speed:  Some interesting details in this shot, including the under-seat auxiliary gas tank:  | ||
| Sparky |
That's a pretty stealthy looking tail/brake light under the tail there. | ||
| Classax |
Who makes those chain adjusters? | ||
| Wymaen |
The chain adjusters look pretty similar to the EBR adjusters that come with the 1125R chain drive conversion kit. Similar, but not exactly like. I wish I knew who made them I'm actually more curious about what the rear stand is contacting to hold the bike up- it's not the spool or the swingarm...is the stand cradling the caliper carrier and the chain guard on the other side? |
