| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
Now lets go back to 2009 ....when it was the first year for Aprilia and BMW in WSBK...... For Round 1....Philip Island : Aprilia , Riders : Biaggi & Nakano Aprilia / Race 1 : 11th and 15th position Aprilia / Race 2 : 12th and 15th position BMW , Riders : Corser and Xaus BMW / Race 1 : 8th and 19th position BMW / Race 2 : 11th and 22th position The top speeds of Aprilia and BMW were among the best..... Those results, more or less, sets the bar for EBR .... http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2009/AUS/SBK/001/CLA/Results.pdf http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2009/AUS/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf (Message edited by vagelis46 on February 20, 2014) (Message edited by vagelis46 on February 20, 2014) | ||
| Trojan |
Thank God you aren't running the team. You'd really skip hours of track time in an effort to get ready for track time? Sounds logical. It is perfectly logical and based on experience unfortunately (albeit at a much mor humble level). In 2006 we were late finishing the build of our XB12 race bike becaue fo delays in parts etc. This meant that the day beofer the forst race of the seaosn the bike was still on the dyno undergoing final fuelling setup etc, and nobody had ridden the bike in anger. We ended up rushing to arive at the circuit at 11.30pm the day before the firstr ace, having missed the two days of testing that preceded it. Becaue of the rush involved and lack of spares tec we ended up having a nightmare that weekend with stupid little things going worng that really should have been sorted IF we had time before hand. We spent the entire weekend fixing small problems and learned and achieved precisely nothing. By the second round we had time to fully sort the bike and were in a much better position when we rolled into the circuit even before racing started. This resulted in a podium position  My point is that if you are not ready then it is better to wait until you are before going racing, as track time alone is not enough if you are not running at full race pace. As for the published top speed figures, it may be that different articles were written on different days of testing so the figures are different. The report I saw that actually quoted speeds said 'Marco Melandri's Aprilia was fastest on the gun today at Phillip Island at 199 mph while EBR rider Geoff May was clocked at 174 mph and Yates' reading was 169 mph.' Whichever figures you choose to believe they are still along way from being competitive on overall times. I'm hoping that they can find some valuable seconds between now and the race start. One area that may be the cause of their slower times may be electronics. Anyone know what level of electronics EBR are running in WSB trim? Ducati have GPS based traction/wheelie/engine mapping control that differentiates between different corners giving optimum power and grip at every point on every track. Kawasaki, Honda and Aprilia all run similar high tech systems with only Suzuki being slightly behind in the tech war at the front I think. I would be interested to know how close EBR are in terms of electronic strategy right now? | ||
| M1combat |
I would assume they are way off with regards to electronics at least vs. Ducati then. "It is perfectly logical and based on experience unfortunately (albeit at a much mor humble level)." Then you didn't learn the lesson that life was trying to teach you. What I've learned about racing (also from experience, but a very different type) is that if you aren't rolling your bike/car out to the start line then you aren't done preparing. If you have a limited amount of testing time anyway then you have to take it where and when you can. I can see your point if you can't get to the track until the night before the start but that isn't the case here. They've done 41 laps at least and we aren't even to official practice yet... Showing up to race the day before a race and nearly a week before a race are very different things. I think we all understand that more track/setup/shakedown/practice/everything time is always good... but saying they shouldn't have shown up is quite wrong Matt. Maybe if they got the bikes down under this Friday night for whatever reason then MAYBE I'd say go ahead and pull out but even then I doubt it. You can't tell me that a full race distance (or however long you make it before an issue) isn't valuable time. Maybe some people can't make use of that amount of time but a professional team of WSBK caliber people damn well will make good use of any track time they can get their wheels on. That said... Entry fees for the kind of racing I do can be anywhere from $600 to $3000 so that would certainly factor into my decision . But I can practice/test/tune any time and place I'd like. | ||
| Trojan |
You can't tell me that a full race distance (or however long you make it before an issue) isn't valuable time. Maybe some people can't make use of that amount of time but a professional team of WSBK caliber people damn well will make good use of any track time they can get their wheels on. Of course any track time is valuable in one sense, but you have to balance that aginst the fact that this is being done in the full glare of worldwide publicity. EBR are a factory team running in the top echelon of WSB competition so their race result will be judged in comparison with other teams in the same class. If they use the race as an extended test and run at the back of the field then some parts of the press are only going to be too happy to report harshly on the performance of the team, and that will reflect on the manufacturer unfortunatley (even though the team is being run by a separate entity enturely). Just look at the hammering and negative publicity that Ducati got last year, even though their bike was actually pretty quick at the first round and they suffered from injury from then on. Like it or not, EBR is still connected with Buell in most peoples minds and they don't need any new reasons for the anti Buell press to give them a kicking. A full race distance test would be good for the team but not so good for EBR overall if they do badly. In my view it is better to get your problems ironed out in prvate testing rather than in the glare of race day publicity (just look at the slagging Buell got for the botched pit stops at Daytona?) I can see your point if you can't get to the track until the night before the start but that isn't the case here. We were just club racing, this is WSb so the analogy is pretty similar - The time scales are just extended a bit. Missing almost all of winter testing and then doing limited laps at the final test due to mechanical issues is not the best way to sart your first season at the top level, so I still contend that they may have been better off leaving their debut until the second round and saving a huge amount in freight costs as well. having said that, I am hoping that they do much better in the actual race than in testing of course | ||
| M2typhoon |
I'm pretty sure they know some stuff that we don't about these bikes and what's going on with them. The whole "engine failure" thing was.. well, BS. I think Court can agree that we don't know the half of what is really going on in that garage. Also, how do you expect them to get track time, not just practice either, race conditions. I've been involved in racing for about 13 years and after taking thousands of pages of notes and documentation, there is no way you can duplicate "race conditions" in testing, practice or in a dyno room. Period. Track time during racing conditions is desperately needed by EBR. SO many times we showed up the best equipment, a big sponsor and what we thought was a great piece but it ended up being a slug out of the box. Then we would get it up to 2nd fastest during practice but the race was horrible. Couldn't pass a soul due to brakes or front end set-up so we coudn't attack when we needed to. There's WAY to many variables that "racing" throws at you to account for during practice or testing. Testing is to only dial in the essential components of the machine and rider. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
If the EBR bikes finish the race with a 30sec gap to the winner , it would be a MEGA success..... A 40sec gap would still be great.... | ||
| Trojan |
a 40 second gap would be amazing at the end of a long race. However based on test times I think it may be optimistic. 4 seconds a lap for around 20 laps is 1'20" behind so I think they will be doing well if they don't get almost lapped by the leaders in the race first time out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sitting out a round because your bike isn't running until the morning of the test is way different than sitting out a round because you might be 20mph down in the traps from the fastest bike. Its a silly comparison. The EBR story isn't a story of an industrial Juggernaut of perfection. It is a story of individual heart and incredible aspirations and success after success (many small) in the face of incredible odds. EBR is Rocky in the first Rocky movie. Setting a big hairy audacious goal, getting the &*&^ kicked out of them, but standing up to fight again... that just adds to their story, it doesn't diminish it. | ||
| 46champ |
Dean at Superbikeplanet is only the most visible but others out there are ready to make a mockery of EBR's efforts if they are seen orbiting around a lap down on the leading teams. This is an American bike with American riders the press is waiting to malign them unmercifully. | ||
| Trojan |
We have seen this happen before with Buell racing, and the same vultures are just waiting to pounce on any sub par performance from EBR. I would rather see then sit out a round than be open to poor press already. Sitting out a round because your bike isn't running until the morning of the test is way different than sitting out a round because you might be 20mph down in the traps from the fastest bike. Its a silly comparison. It may be IF it was only the fact that they are 20mph down. The reality is that they didn't test enough because they had insufficient spares and then when they got to the PI test suffered 'engine blow up' (whatever they were) problems that probably wouldn't have been there if they had tested thoroughly before that time. The similarity that I was alluding to is that if you have to rush preparation and turn up not fully prepared you are likely to have problems. This happens in club racing right through to GP racing and there are a number if very clever teams who have sadly fallen by the wayside because of it. I don't want to see that happen to EBR in WSBK so would prefer to see them fully prepared than just turning up to go through the motions. maybe I'm wrong and they are fully prepared, confident and were sandbagging during the test, but it doesn't look like that from here. | ||
| 04buell |
 It's gonna be a GREAT YEAR, no matter what anyone says!!!  | ||
| Jscott |
"Ignore the boos, they usually come from the cheap seats..." | ||
| Classax |
The very fact that they are ONLY 4 seconds (roughly 5%) off the pace without all the GPS driven turn specific traction/wheelie/ABS/tilt/ECM/cyclinder deactivation control, with an 11% slower top speed after only 41 laps ever vs the leader (Sykes)who did 114 laps in December and 123 laps in Spain two weeks ago and another 117 laps there at PI on a bike that has been in the series for years and has reams of data to control all the above; A. Makes me want one of these EBR machines for my very own. B. Should scare more than a few of the factory teams. C. Should be encouraging to the EBR team knowing they already have a lot of areas they KNOW can improve. If they finish both races without getting lapped I'd call that a major victory! 4 years ago there was NOTHING, not even the hope of bikes, let alone legit superbikes, able to make the grid in WSBK. Its like have a poor sports team in your city, the media wants to scrap them before the season starts because on paper they can't win the championship. Badwagon fans stay home, but the people who benefit most from the team in the city are happy they even get a chance to play/see the games. I for one just want to enjoy seeing the Americans join the game. We can put world conquest on the agenda for next year if you like. For now let's just learn the ropes shall we. Enjoy the Races | ||
| Bob_thompson |
With the old idea of race on Sunday, sell on Monday EBR already has a great start, just being on the grid, toward selling many bikes and specifically the new 1190's, in all configurations to come and will be a boon to HERO for their sales also.........no matter where they run in WSB, and to place in the top ten the first year would be outstanding! The bike itself (1190RX), is so good it will sell itself to many who may have been considering some other make. Well done Erik, well done Elves. Onward, upward and forward. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe it's a personality thing, but personally I find it foolish to change what I to in order to please people who have already decided to savage me regardless of what I do. | ||
| M2typhoon |
I think it's to bad that a lot of riders, motorcycle enthusiasts, and bikers just don't know anything about racing and those that do, even fewer know anything about the rules or what it takes to be a successful race team. All most people care about is numbers. Where you finished on Sunday will sell bikes, not so much being there and getting. Truth hurts but you gotta start somewhere. | ||
| Court |
The very fact that EBR is present is amazing and the source of so much pride I can't hardly believe it. If you're American . . . well, I'm proud to see a kid who started in a barn, after leaving a really good paying job, be the FIRST America factory to ever grid at the race. The bikes are good. They're new . . we demanded the greatest technology and the Elves at EBR stunned the world with it. New carries some unknowns and lots of places where improvement will be made. No one here is at their first rodeo. Talent runs deep from the team owner to the crew to the riders. I don't know Aaron Yates, I do know Geoff May and, in addition to being about the finest Ambassador a manufacturer could put before the public, he's smart, strategic and has the racers' thirst. There are days Erik would give one of his few remaining undamaged body parts to BE Geoff May. I hope they win. They hope they win. Many of us here hope they win. And . . . . importantly . . .an entire new population of Buell fans, spawned from the classless way that HD disemployed 200 dedicated folks . . . folks who have never bought a Buell, have no interest in an EBR product but are HUGE supporters of Erik, The Elves and their efforts. I'm so proud of Erik and his team I tear up. The band is back together . . . even elderly folks ( :-) ) like Dave Gess are there working their asses off to make EBR succeed. Sleepy East Troy, WI is quickly becoming the nexus of the world's top motorcycle talent . . they are coming from around the world to be part of history being made. I could care less if they win, loose or draw. I know the players, I know how fiercely they will compete and frankly all I care about is seeing that first lap and watching all the "never happen" naysayers be quieted. This is an amazing thing that's happening . . . someday . . someone is going to learn what's been happening behind those doors for the last 4 years and we are all going to be proud to have played a role in it. See ya at the races . . . Court | ||
| Ljm |
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| Rocket_in_uk |
The times have changed. This isn't the Buell MC we knew a few years ago. This is the Buell MC I argued for back when. Except it's now known as EBR. The very fact that EBR is present is amazing and the source of so much pride I can't hardly believe it. If you're American . . . well, I'm proud to see a kid who started in a barn, after leaving a really good paying job, be the FIRST America factory to ever grid at the race. The bikes are good. They're new . . we demanded the greatest technology and the Elves at EBR stunned the world with it. New carries some unknowns and lots of places where improvement will be made. No one here is at their first rodeo. Talent runs deep from the team owner to the crew to the riders. I don't know Aaron Yates, I do know Geoff May and, in addition to being about the finest Ambassador a manufacturer could put before the public, he's smart, strategic and has the racers' thirst. There are days Erik would give one of his few remaining undamaged body parts to BE Geoff May. I hope they win. They hope they win. Many of us here hope they win. And . . . . importantly . . .an entire new population of Buell fans, spawned from the classless way that HD disemployed 200 dedicated folks . . . folks who have never bought a Buell, have no interest in an EBR product but are HUGE supporters of Erik, The Elves and their efforts. I'm so proud of Erik and his team I tear up. The band is back together . . . even elderly folks ( :-) ) like Dave Gess are there working their asses off to make EBR succeed. Sleepy East Troy, WI is quickly becoming the nexus of the world's top motorcycle talent . . they are coming from around the world to be part of history being made. I could care less if they win, loose or draw. I know the players, I know how fiercely they will compete and frankly all I care about is seeing that first lap and watching all the "never happen" naysayers be quieted. This is an amazing thing that's happening . . . someday . . someone is going to learn what's been happening behind those doors for the last 4 years and we are all going to be proud to have played a role in it. See ya at the races . . . Likely the best thing you've ever written on BadWeB Court. Rocket in England | ||
| Stirz007 |
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| Johnbranx1 |
End of day one practice for SBK race. "Of the new manufacturers, Claudio Corti was 16th fastest on the MV Agusta, while Geoff May continued to make in-roads into the riders ahead aboard the Erik Buell Racing 1190RX. Together with Aaron Yates, the pair are now comfortably within the 107 per cent qualifying rule, with May having reduced the gap to the front to 3.5secs." | ||
| Trojan |
FP1 was a wash out with only a few riders venturing out on track. FP2 was dry and everyone went out. Times are..... 1 22 A. LOWES GBR Voltcom Crescent Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1'31.100 20 175,653 305,9 2 33 M. MELANDRI ITA Aprilia Racing Team Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'31.137 0.037 0.037 20 175,582 315,8 3 34 D. GIUGLIANO ITA Ducati Superbike Team Ducati 1199 Panigale R 1'31.205 0.105 0.068 16 175,451 305,1 4 1 T. SYKES GBR Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'31.395 0.295 0.190 17 175,086 313,0 5 65 J. REA GBR PATA Honda World Superbike Honda CBR1000RR 1'31.436 0.336 0.041 19 175,008 312,1 6 58 E. LAVERTY IRL Voltcom Crescent Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1'31.448 0.348 0.012 18 174,985 309,5 7 91 L. HASLAM GBR PATA Honda World Superbike Honda CBR1000RR 1'31.533 0.433 0.085 15 174,822 305,9 8 76 L. BAZ FRA Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'31.637 0.537 0.104 11 174,624 309,5 9 7 C. DAVIES GBR Ducati Superbike Team Ducati 1199 Panigale R 1'31.757 0.657 0.120 12 174,395 308,6 10 50 S. GUINTOLI FRA Aprilia Racing Team Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'31.759 0.659 0.002 16 174,392 316,7 11 24 T. ELIAS ESP Red Devils Roma Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'32.073 0.973 0.314 20 173,797 312,1 12 59 N. CANEPA ITA Althea Racing Ducati 1199 Panigale R EVO 1'32.340 1.240 0.267 16 173,294 300,8 13 9 F. FORET FRA MAHI Racing Team India Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'32.734 1.634 0.394 18 172,558 296,7 14 44 D. SALOM ESP Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'32.944 1.844 0.210 17 172,168 301,7 15 14 G. ALLERTON AUS BMW Motorrad Italia SBK BMW S1000 RR EVO 1'33.118 2.018 0.174 18 171,846 301,7 16 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'33.119 2.019 0.001 15 171,845 300,8 17 32 S. MORAIS RSA IRON BRAIN Kawasaki SBK Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'33.635 2.535 0.516 13 170,898 293,5 18 21 A. ANDREOZZI ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'33.996 2.896 0.361 18 170,241 295,1 19 11 J. GUARNONI FRA MRS Kawasaki Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'34.279 3.179 0.283 16 169,730 291,1 20 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'34.640 3.540 0.361 20 169,083 283,5 21 10 I. TOTH HUN BMW Team Toth BMW S1000 RR 1'35.117 4.017 0.477 10 168,235 299,2 22 12 M. WALTERS AUS Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 1'35.810 4.710 0.693 17 167,018 293,5 23 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'36.338 5.238 0.528 17 166,103 274,1 24 56 P. SEBESTYEN HUN BMW Team Toth BMW S1000 RR EVO 1'39.076 Alex Lowes is set to be the WSB revelation this year methinks | ||
| M1combat |
I wish Rea wasn't on a Honda... Makes it hard for me to root for him. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Here is the official link for results, top speeds, laps : http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2014/A US/SBK/L2A/CLA/Results.pdf | ||
| Hughlysses |
Observation on yesterday's practice:
Source: http://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/200479/1/lowes-upst ages-rivals-to-pace-practice.html | ||
| Court |
 Leave your dog at home . . . | ||
| Smoke |
HAVE FUN Court! (i'm jealous!) HAVE A GREAT RACE Geoff and Aaron!! EBR making history! AGAIN tim | ||
| Trojan |
Of the new manufacturers, Claudio Corti was 16th fastest on the MV Agusta, while Geoff May continued to make in-roads into the riders ahead aboard the Erik Buell Racing 1190RX. Together with Aaron Yates, the pair are now comfortably within the 107 per cent qualifying rule, with May having reduced the gap to the front to 3.5secs. That is what you call a 'glass half full' report Geoff May is 20th and Yates is 23rd (of 23 qualifiers) and their times would put them only just inside the top ten in the 600cc WSS class, so I wouldn't be jumping up and down just yet. However, on the plus side....times have improved a bit to the leaders considering the conditions were very windy. let's see what they can do in 'proper' qualifying tomorrow | ||
| Classax |
Court-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vzEgV5qJdc lol Looking good for the team they are bring down their times slowly. Dare I say it, now in their 3rd year the Panigales(Panigali?) are finally looking strong as well. I hope their success doesn't result in penalties for the EBR's down the road. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another article of interest this morning: According to Sport Rider, May was clocked at only 168 MPH (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1402_wsbk_ebr_a aron_yates_looking_for_more_power_agility/). OTOH, this article which followed the release of the 1190RX last year implies the STOCK bikes would be electronically speed-limited to 186 MPH (http://rideapart.com/2013/10/2014-ebr-1190rx-first -photos-and-specs/). I'd certainly think a 185 HP (stock) motorcycle is capable of more than 168 MPH. After reading this, I'm leaning more towards the thought that May and Yates are deliberately holding back, at least on the straightaways. I don't think we've seen all they're currently capable of yet. |
