| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
I made a mistake before about the number of engines available per rider... WSBK = 8 engines EVO = 6 engines So maybe EBR chose the WSBK , so that they have 2 extra engines for the season.... Their engines seem to blow rather easily so far , so the 2 extra engines wil be needed ... | ||
| Classax |
At the risk of sounding like an EBR fan boy which to a certain extent I am, "Their engines seem to blow rather easily so far, so the 2 extra engines will be needed" is at this point an irresponsible and ignorant thing to say. I say that in the best possible taste.(you may yet prove to be right and if so I will recant) A new motor and bike combo would have seen a complete tear down anyway. They did have failures but from what I read, the motors were swapped but not blown and can be swapped back in after the parts change. Other teams have had the luxury of multiple test sessions so any motor issues have been addressed between test so its not as public. The bikes are only similar to last year, new motors, different balance, increased weight, on different tire profiles takes time to get familiar with. I suspect the EBRs will be in the 1'32s by race time as there is every reason to slowly build pace in your first sessions ever. 2 seconds is still way off the podium but it appears to be mid pack. MV for example is in their 3rd test of the season and clearly pushing the limits. I don't see them picking up more than a few tenths improvement this weekend. Just being on the grid is a triumph for both companies. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
You said that the choice EBR made to run full SBK, instead of EVO was "GUTSY".... I was trying to say that EBR might have opted to run the full SBK platform , for the benefit the extra 2 motors will give them .... Not trying to disrespect the EBR in any way ....It is just the way it is..... | ||
| Classax |
Ah... now I catch your drift mate. Point well taken. If they are planning a new gearbox and swing arm as the team manager alluded, then superbike gives them the most latitude to develop new parts, to include new motor components. | ||
| Trojan |
what are the latest generation of British riders on, that makes them so fast ? Marmite  Both Lowes twins are just incredibly fast and my only surprise is that it has taken this long for them to arrive on the world stage. I think they will both get some very good results this year and hope that they both get to MotoGP in the next couple of seasons The bikes are only similar to last year, new motors, different balance, increased weight, on different tire profiles takes time to get familiar with. I suspect the EBRs will be in the 1'32s by race time as there is every reason to slowly build pace in your first sessions ever. Very difficult to say as we don't know if they went for a quick time at the end of the session or just stuck to race stuff (or didn't even get that far maybe?). Looking at both riders times they seemed to get down to their best times and then get stuck there with no improvement in the last session when pretty much everyone went for a fast lap. We won't really know until the flag drops, but I would be quite surprised if they manage to drag another 2 seconds out of the bike before race day considering their lack of testing and experieince. MV are quicker, but that team (Yaknich) have been running at the top in WSS for a few seasons, and their ex MotoGp rider knows the track very well. Alex Lowes is in a very established and succesful team that has tested a lot before getting to PI. EBR need to set their sights on the other rookie teams and at least try and get ahead of the EVO bikes on the edge of the top ten, and that will need at least a 1' 31" lap time come race day I think. | ||
| Crusty |
what are the latest generation of British riders on, that makes them so fast ? Marmite They feed it to the riders on the starting grid, and tell them they can only have a glass of water after they finish the race.  | ||
| Court |
Does anyone have any information about "blown engines"? All I have read are "technical difficulties" which I tend to read as bike set-up issues . . . . I confess I've not the time to dig through all the trade journals but I'm thrilled to see EBR in the hunt. Not bad for a guy funding this out of his own pocket for 4 years. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Article (in Italian, translated by google) on EBR's testing sessions: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en& js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fus5.cam paign-archive1.com%2F%3Fu%3Db1964295d7f155fa8c439a 200%26id%3Dba4566f6ff | ||
| Blake |
Just people making comments from ignorance, or to be more charitable possibly using the term "blown engines" incredibly liberally. My father calls it "lying." T'is the internet. <sigh> | ||
| Vagelis46 |
During the first day of testing , www.motomatters.com, reports : ""The EBR machines of Geoff May and Aaron Yates also faced a tough shakedown, missing the second session after engine problems meant the team spent the afternoon stripping the bikes, rebuilding them and swapping engines. "" Engine problems + stripping the bike + swapping engines.... I call this a "blown engine" for a summary ...... Why some people find this offensive for EBR ? Would people be upset if this "blown engine term, was used for a Kawa or a Duc problem ? I do not think so ..... Relax people.... It is just my poor english, there is nothing wrong with the EBR engines (Hopefully )..... On the other hand though , no other team (Duc, Kawa, Suzuki, Honda, Aprilia, BMW) had an engine problem that forced them to strip the bikes and swap engines.... no "blown" engines  (Message edited by vagelis46 on February 18, 2014) | ||
| Court |
Confirms what I'd suspected . . . we know nothing except they're scrambling to find the setup. Cool | ||
| Trojan |
we know nothing except they're scrambling to find the setup. Scrambling to find a setup is when you are a couple of secionds off the pace. 4-6 seconds off the pace is a bit more serious I would think, but lets wait till next weekend when the testing stops and the flag drops They are coming into the race with much less testing than any other team and that shows unfortunately. The question is if they can catch up and be conmpetitive with the other 'superbikes' and ahead of the EVO bikes. | ||
| Classax |
Good ole Blake always the charitable one. There are mix of reports coming in from official and unofficial sources. One of the folks on the Aussie facebook site used the term "blown motor" and both Crashnet and Motomatters indicated that the bikes had to be torn down and the motors swapped in the afternoon on the first day. We don't know if other teams had issues because they weren't reported. Either way they are turning laps now though. I hold firm in my assertion that it wouldn't make sense to try to run at the pace of the leaders when you are trying to learn the track AND shakedown the bikes at the same time, especially knowing you are days away from the race with limited parts support on hand. If I'm gonna risk chucking down the road or blowing it up, I'd want to do it in the race not in testing a few days before. A DNF is better than DNS anyday! (Message edited by Classax on February 18, 2014) | ||
| Firstbuell |
EBR factory news: [from a press release issued by Michael Hill Promotions on behalf of Team HERO EBR], Team Hero EBR Makes World Superbike Debut In Official Pre-Season Test Team Hero EBR arrived at the picturesque setting of Phillip Island, Australia, (with no prior testing before their World Championship debut), and as such were hoping to make the most of the official two day test ahead of the 2014 opening round, also held at Phillip Island this coming weekend. Our riders Geoff May and Aaron Yates arrived down under with the added obstacle of never having ridden at the Australian, let alone the all new EBR 1190 RX. Teething problems were of course to be expected, and after completing a total of 41 laps in the opening session, the number 20 and 99 EBR 1190 RX machines took no further part in Monday’s on track activity. With the sun shining brightly this morning, and with the team having worked hard to find and resolve the small technical glitches everyone was relieved and satisfied with the outcome at the conclusion of today’s final four hour test. Geoff and Aaron both significantly improved throughout the day as both man and machine adapted to the undulating circuit, located a couple of hours from Melbourne. In the final session Geoff suffered a small crash but was able to make it back to the pits. Both riders then re-joined the circuit to complete another handful of laps before the chequered flag was waved. With two days before official practice to evaluate the data gathered, Team Hero EBR is optimistic of a respectable result from their debut races within the World Superbike championship on Sunday. Giulio Bardi – Team Hero EBR Team Manager: “This is the first time that the bikes have turned a wheel on track. We had teething problems and we expected this but this is what testing is all about. Overall we are happy as we rectified the small problem that we had and both riders were able to improve. I am confident that we will continue to improve throughout Friday’s official practices and again by the time qualifying comes. We are looking forward to the opening races on Sunday and will do our best to achieve the best results that we can at this early stage in the season.” Round 1 of the 2014 World Superbike championship gets underway proper with the first Free Practice session on Friday. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/sykes-near-lap-record-as-world-superbike-testing-ends-at-phillip-island/ (Message edited by firstbuell on February 18, 2014) | ||
| Jaimec |
Just noticed the second fastest time in WSS was set by our very own PJ Jacobsen! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Short article at sportrider.com: http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1402_ebr_slow_s tart_world_superbike_debut/ Interesting tidbit: "By April, in Aragon, we will bring some more substantial updates, such a new gearbox and swingarm, which are currently standard," Bardi added. "Here, we only brought some minor components, such as a bigger fuel tank that stretches out under the rider's seat, because we need 24 liters to cover the whole race distance, but the bike is basically running on AMA specs with Öhlins suspensions and Magneti Marelli ECU." | ||
| Vtpeg |
I've been part of some NASCAR testing. We were slower than some cars that had not been nearly as fast in previous races. I was dumb semi skilled labor, and my question was why were we so slow, compared to lower budget teams with "lesser" drivers. "We are here to test, not to race." Teething problems will get ironed out. | ||
| Trojan |
Teething problems will get ironed out. One report I read this morning stated that both EBR bikes were around 25mph slower on the straight through the speed gun than the leading WSBK bikes. If that is true then that is NOT teething problems unfortunately, just slow bikes (for whatever reason). "We are here to test, not to race." It may only be testing but there is absolutely no point in going testing at anything slower than race pace. Just riding round slowly does not test equipment, engines, tyres or riders and is just a waste of everyones time. You can guarantee that the guys who are fastest in testing will be the same guys fighting for the lead at the first race. Everyone else will be trying to catch up. I hope that the EBR team can find some way of getting faster before the first round, but I am beginning to think that they would have been better served missing this round altogether if they are not ready. Casual spectators won't take a balanced or long term view but will just look at the scoresheet and the lap times unfortunately, so in some circumstances a DNS is actually better than a DNF. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
25 miles/hour or 25 kilometers/hour .... slower ? | ||
| Trojan |
25 miles/hour or 25 kilometers/hour .... slower ? Miles per hour unfortunately.... This from Superbikeplanet (which has traditionally been a bit anti Buell but the numbers don't lie) The pair are 23rd and 24th fastest after two days of testing at Phillip Island and while their lap times are startlingly off the pace (the tenth fastest World Supersport 600 is faster than either Buell) the radar gun at Phillip Island tells an even uglier tale: reportedly, Marco Melandri's Aprilia was fastest on the gun today at Phillip Island at 199 mph while EBR rider Geoff May was clocked at 174 mph and Yates' reading was 169 mph | ||
| M1combat |
So... maybe it IS a HP track? Oh wait no... someone said it wasn't. OK. This is not the HP track you're looking for... Anyway... I'd guess that they're at least not geared quite right yet and I doubt they're running as much HP as the other factory teams. A bit less HP and a bit less gearing will certainly put you 25KPH (maybe even MPH depending on just how far off the gears are) down on that straight. It's a VERY fast straight. There are three very fast straights on that track. One of them is a little kinky but very fast none the less. Also... It's quite a tricky track to learn. You have a point... But consider this a shakedown run. Do you run those at race pace? I'd recommend against it. More race cars get trashed during test and tune sessions than race sessions. I'm not saying I expect we'll be top five come Friday afternoon mind you... I'm just saying that I'm sure EBR will improve considerably. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I hope they do a nice "bedding-in" for the engines....... and their rev limiters are 2000rpm lower than usual..... How about the Duc EVO bike of Canepa ? Any top speed from this bike ? That would give a better indication , comparing a 2cyl bike to a 2cyl bike ..... | ||
| M1combat |
Looking into it I find that the Buell will do that sort of speed at the top. Obviously these aren't directly comparable and that's not my intention... I'm merely making the point that the Buell should be able to get to some pretty decent top speeds. AMA Pro Road Racing National Guard Superbike Daytona International Speedway Daytona Beach, Florida March 15, 2012 Free Practice Two Trap Speeds: 1. Roger Hayden (Suz GSX-R1000), 206.40 mph 2. Josh Hayes (Yam YZF-R1), 205.42 mph 3. Geoff May (EBR 1190RS), 205.32 mph I still say they've got the gears too tall right now. I think they decided to run what they brought and work on chassis setup with a somewhat docile gear set. We'll see soon enough though . | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Philip island is the track where the Ducs were always winning and especially dominating the Qualifying.......and the Ducs were always down on speed compared to the 4cyl...... It is not considered a HP track , but a track that bikes that handle well and keep high corner speeds, are doing well........UNLESS you are 40HP down on power, then you have a problem .... a big problem.... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
2012 , race 2 :http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2012/A US/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf The Duc of Checa was 10-15 km/hr , from the 4cyls , but still won ............ 2011 : The Duc of Checa was 10-15 km/hr , from the 4cyls , but still won ............ BOTH races (Message edited by vagelis46 on February 19, 2014) | ||
| Trojan |
The Duc of Checa was 10-15 km/hr , from the 4cyls , but still won ............ That was two years ago and the 4 cylinder bikes have upped the game since then. The Kawasaki actually behaves like a twin when banked over in turns by 'switching off' two cylinders. This gives better traction and preserves tyres better than the twin cylinder machines are capable of. Also, look at Checa's lap time. At 1'32" he is still 4 seconds quicker than Geoff Mays best time. Top speed isn't the only factor of course, but overall lap times do suggest that the EBR bikes are not making up in the corners what they lose on the straights. This year the top bikes are already under 1'31" in testing and I think that (weather permitting) the Superpole time may even drop below 1'30" for the first time. We don't know what the EBR power output is, but the 4 cylinder front runners will have around 240bhp to play with that's for sure. The Ducati is rumoured to be around 210bhp this year, so should be around the same as the EBR bikes in terms of power. If that is the case then the EBR's are losing out somewhere else to be so far off the pace of even the EVO spec Ducati. | ||
| M1combat |
I didn't say it wasn't a corner speed track. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Some tracks require all of it. When I say it's a HP track I mean it's not a track like Portimao or Jerez. It's more like Mugello (which is DEFINITELY a corner speed track, but is also very fast) but shorter. You're looking at it as one or the other. It's not that simple. Plenty of time at WOT. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that , if the Ducati were running the 1198R instead of the Panigale, last year , they would still have won both races at Philip Island...... if they were at 165kg as in 2011 , not the 171kg the 1198R were given the penalty in 2012..... The Panigale was an ill handling bike , that I hope is fixed for the 2014.... I still want to believe that if both the 4cyls and 2cyls are both raced at 165kg , the 2cyls will handle better in any day , and will win at some track ....... I am glad that EBR is stil going the 2cyl root..... and I want to believe that the EBR handles better than the Panigale , just like the 1198R did........ but if there is 40km/hr disadvantage, if for some reason EBR has a problem making enough HP from that engine and keeping it reliable , then there is no other option but to choose a 4cyl engine at some point...... | ||
| Vtpeg |
"there is absolutely no point in going testing at anything slower than race pace" Although my license said chassis engineer, I really was dumb labor. That said, data collected and extrapolated from less than race pace "could" be useful to minds much greater than mine. Looking for a good result from EBR, but agreed they seem real slow right now. Sandbagging? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Vtpeg , I do not think is sandbagging..... More like M1combat said, they are trying to figure the ratios Unless they are 60HP down on power....... |
