| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
With no (or very little) TV coverage, dwinding attendances and lack of direction by AMA/DMG, why would EBR (or any other major team/sponsor) want to commit major funding to AMA racing in 2014? Unfortunately the AMA needs to disband the current administration and start a brand new championship run by someone other than DMG if it is regain any credibility. Maybe they need to hire the Flammini brothers (WSB founders)or Stuart Higgs (the guy who runs BSB) to get the train back on the rails again. | ||
| Ljm |
I don't know whether the manufactures are interested in continuing in the AMA, but I can tell you that my experience in another sport suggests that if they are not visible in the U.S.A., interest is going to wane. The athletes in my sport compete primarily in Europe. The consequence is that every pretender who shows up and wins some local or insignificant championship and calls him- or herself the World Champion, etc. gets the publicity and the general public doesn't know any better. If the AMA collapses, whichever manufacturer capitalizes on the absence of a level playing field, shows up at a regional race and features it in their advertising and media efforts is going to sell the bikes. There's the motivation to continue: without the AMA anyone can say that they are the best bike in the America. (Message edited by ljm on October 30, 2013) | ||
| Trojan |
The consequence is that every pretender who shows up and wins some local or insignificant championship and calls him- or herself the World Champion, etc. gets the publicity and the general public doesn't know any better. The problem is that the AMA has gradually degraded in the eyes of the rest of the world motorcycling community since DMG took over (actually the rot set in long before that, but the solution of letting DMG run things only made it worse). Unless they reboot and renew the whole series with new administration (and go cap in hand to the manufacturers that they publicly told they didn't need a few years ago) then nothing is going to restore that reputation. If there is no credible AMA series then who outside the US will take any notice of all the dispirate other championships going on across the US (WERA etc) regardless of what they call themselves or how good they are. You need ONE national championship at the highest level. The AMA series used to be regarded as the premier superbike series in the world, with team managers in WSB and MotoGP looking to recruit new riders from the AMA before looking elsewhere. Now the AMA series is pretty much ignored by world championship teams and they shop at the Spanaish CEV, BSB and other national championships before looking to the US for prospective riders. This means that riders have to race in Europe to get noticed, which in turn degrades the quality of AMA racing even more. Now that teams are deserting too I can see no way back for DMG. | ||
| Hughlysses |
A little more on MJ Motorsports' decision to pull out of AMA: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/michael-jordan -motorsports-suspending-ama-pro-road-racing-operat ions-focusing-on-move-to-international-competition / | ||
| Ljm |
Preaching to the choir, Matt, I've been to one race each of the past two years and while it was interesting, the thin nature of the competition, the difficulty seeing the actual race, and for the other stops on the tour, not being able to get it here on T.V. supports everything you, and Michael Jordan Motorsports are saying. It seems like it must be diminishing returns. From a pure spectator standpoint, the lack of parity (that I mentioned in a prior post) also contributes. I am clearly partisan, but it is hard to get interested. I was sort of referring to the value of getting the bikes out there for the manufacturers. If there is no viable national circuit in which to showcase the bikes, and this is a market they want to have a strong presence in, some other idea has to be forthcoming. If, for example, the EBR transporter showed up at a WERA race, the guys did a few laps, and let the top five riders take them for a go for a few laps, I suspect that the dealer would have five interested potential customers the next week. Without some way to get exposure domestically, sales are sure to be, well, slower. That's the major downside to the AMA collapsing. | ||
| Trojan |
I think the AMA shot itself in the foot severely when they basically told major manufacturers they didn't want them a few years ago. Major championships need people with the advertising and PR power of Honda/Yamaha/Ducati/Triumph/EBR etc. Whether that is a direct factory or importer run team or a well funded and factory supported independant effort doesn't matter. Without them you just have a reasonably big club race, with nothing to attract fans. If only a couple of the big teams turn up you have boring racing with one rider walking away with races by huge margins like Yamaha has done, so you need all of them there to make a spectacle of it.. AMA need to find a way to get the major players back into the sport, and I think a few people at DMG/AMA will have to publicly fall on their swords first to make the factories feel better about it. | ||
| Blake |
Just book the events and get them televised. Not rocket science. No big drama needed. Dismal management of the event and television coverage aside, both BSB and WSB are following the lead of AMA Pro Racing in transforming tech rules towards less costly, less exotic racing machines. | ||
| Trojan |
Dismal management of the event and television coverage aside, both BSB and WSB are following the lead of AMA Pro Racing in transforming tech rules towards less costly, less exotic racing machines. There is a massive difference in how they have gone about it to make them successful and the AMA such a mess. Both BSB and WSb made changes with the cooperation and assistance of the major manufacturers and teams. The introduction of an EVO class first meant that problems could be ironed out before the rules were applied across the class in following years. Also both BSB and WSb are still allowed a lot more tuning then AMA even with EVO rules in place. In comparison, the AMA tried to bulldoze their rules through by telling manufacturers to 'like it or leave'. This alienated the very people that a major race series requires to be successful -the motorcycle manufacturers! Rather than align the AMA rules with other world race series, the AMA/DMG intead produced a rule book that made it very difficult for AMA teams to even race as wild cards in WSB successfully, and indeed has probably gone a long way to stopping US teams and from making a full time transition to WSB. They really do need to tear up the current rule book and championship structure and start again. if that means copying someone elses rules that have proved to be successful then so be it, but they need to include the manufacturers, teams, potential sponsors and TV companies in the process of rebuilding. And they need to do it now, not in January next year or even worse once the series eventually collapses. As you say, it isn't rocket science to make a successful series, and there are plenty of people they could go to for advice. Which just makes it even harder to believe that they have made such a hash of it so far. | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I think AMA pro racing is dead! DMG has killed it by purposefull neglect just like SPEED becoming a "Nascar" channel and neglecting other forms of motor sports. | ||
| Jaimec |
As much criticism as the AMA received when they ran the series, those morons at DMG make them look like freakin' GENIUSES. | ||
| Bads1 |
On another note. Its going to be a slow coming of who is signing who and to where. One came today that M4 Team Hammer signed Jake Zemke to ride Daytona Sportbike on a 600RR. Zemke back on a Honda is a very good combo. | ||
| Classax |
I think the reality for the AMA is that in the current economic climate( last three seasons)its been too expensive for smaller factories to compete and the advances in technology have meant wide gaps between machines and even worse with good riders. The classes should be: Daytona Sport Bike = 600 i4, 700 triples 900cc twins Superbike = 1k 4s, 900 triples 1200twins to DSB engine specs. Techbike/sport= Same as Superbike but with much less restriction on engine mods and spec ecu. Let the MFg's run wild. That way DSB can be the entry class, Superbike= Best riders on best Semi Stock class Techsport= things go back to the way they were, proving which factory/teams had the most money and bravest riders. | ||
| Davegess |
Just book the events and get them televised. Not rocket science. No big drama needed.  aint that simple Blake. The tracks only want events that attract a big crowd and make money so if the crowds are small you would have to pay them to make up for it. TV is easy, buy TV time ... except that costs millions of dollars for the time and the production. WSBK can't get a decent TV package in the US, MotoGP gets a tape delayed spot on a minor network. Why is this? Not many folks watch. The AMA series has even less viewer ship. The only way to move up the TV ranking to buy the TV time in decent time slots on decent networks. Unless you can get the advertisers to pony up millions you are paying this. Advertisers won't pay without the eyeballs. I do think it is a damn shame how badly this is messed up but the initial impetus of changing the rules was based on getting an even playing field so private teams could compete. The big four had spilt up the classes with each one winning a title so all could brag about being champions. The rules allowed so many changes that only the factory guys could win. The factories paid all the bills and called all the shots. Even with that the series got mediocre coverage and attendance was slowly sinking. Americans don't much care for road racing and care less for motorcycles. Not exactly a formula for wild success. The whole DMG deal was to create more exciting racing - they sure did that - and give more teams a shot at winning. They did that too. Unfortunately they could never sell the exciting races to advertisers who would have allowed the TV coverage to grow and they lost the Big 4 as advertisers. Even then, if the Great Recession hadn't hit it might have worked. The racing was very, very good. If the economy is good perhaps the factories will want to get there ads in front of eyeballs, other business's will want these same eyeballs and NASCAR wouldn't be seeing revenue drop fast making DMG the odd man out in their group. US pro road racing may never recover. | ||
| Classax |
American love road racing, and motorcycles. Wee love all forms of racing, even bull frog jumping. The problem is fans love their niche. Part of it is a slow economy but the real issues are; Marketing, machine parity, rider parity and coverage. People who follow nascar follow the drivers not the cars. In motorcycling its as much about the machines as it is the riders. You want success, take look at boxing. Ali and marketing built it and Tyson's dominance killed it. Superbike needs good racing and good rivalries. Right now it has neither. | ||
| Trojan |
I do think it is a damn shame how badly this is messed up but the initial impetus of changing the rules was based on getting an even playing field so private teams could compete. The problem was that AMA/DMG got rid of the factory dominance by throwing the factories out instead of working with them on a decent set of workable rules that everyone could agree on, as they have done in BSB and now in WSB. Once you get rid of the factories to let privateers win you end up with a second rate series that is just a glorified club series, not a blue riband race series that is supposed to showcase the best riders and bikes in the country. AMA needs to cosy up to Honda/Kawasaki/Ducati/Suzuki/Aprilia again and offer the factories a rule structure that will make everyone feel included. Without them, if even in a semi factory involvement, there is nil hope of advertising revenue coming in and therefore no chance of decent TV coverage. | ||
| Hughlysses |
AMA needs to cosy up to Honda/Kawasaki/Ducati/Suzuki/Aprilia again and offer the factories a rule structure that will make everyone feel included. I believe there is a GLARING omission from your list of manufacturers.  | ||
| Trojan |
I missed EBR only because they are already in AMA racing (or were until this year). The other major manufacturers need to be coaxed back in to the series to make it viable again. Without them (and any others I may have missed) it just won't work. To be honest it only really needs the BIG 4 (Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki) to be in to make it work, the others are just icing on the cake. | ||
| Classax |
The problem was that AMA/DMG got rid of the factory dominance by throwing the factories out instead of working with them on a decent set of workable rules that everyone could agree on, as they have done in BSB and now in WSB. Once you get rid of the factories to let privateers win you end up with a second rate series that is just a glorified club series, not a blue riband race series that is supposed to showcase the best riders and bikes in the country. Yamaha seems to like the rules as they are. AMA needs the manufactures to come to the table in a way that is cost effective for teams to run their equipment. With WSB going to an EVO rules class gradually I think AMA should follow suit. I still support an ultrabike class as well were the factories can support the hypermodified bikes, but superbike needs parity in the rules. As for coverage its was already there. SPEED channel killed itself by becoming the NASCAR channel. Anyone old enough to remember 2wheel Tuesday knows SPEED dropped nearly every other form of racing for NASCAR and Monster JAM. CBS renewed for two years, Velocity and BEIN also have motorcycle racing as well. If Larry P. could have run better or was less boring a personality even Superbike Family would have been renewed. Coverage is not the problem. The lack of parity in the racing is. DMG needs help with rules and marketing the sport. If Xgames can find the money, I know the AMA can. For crying out loud show up at the NASCAR events and pub the MOTO sports YOU OWN them BOTH! Do some off season AMA vs Nascar events do something. | ||
| Xb1125r |
no body watched BSB | ||
| Trojan |
no body watched BSB Yeah right. Have you seen the attendance or TV viewing figures figures for BSB races this year? bear in mind that this is a country with 10% of the US population (if that). It is no coincidence that BSB is now shown on US televison either. BSB has managed to include all the major manufacturers (or the importers) in the rule changes so that everybody is happy with the EVO rules. There are more teams trying to race in BSB than there are spaces, and world class riders signing up for next year. This year we have had one of the most exciting series for years, with the championship going down to the wire at the last race. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, Suzuki and Ducati all have at least semi factory teams involved. The AMA should take the winter to visit Stuart Higgs at BSB and take a note of what he has done and how he has done it. By sharing the same set of rules (and race classes) as other domestic and world series you get the chance to see wild card appearances by good riders, which agan brings in more interest. Yamaha seems to like the rules as they are. AMA needs the manufactures to come to the table in a way that is cost effective for teams to run their equipment. Of course they are happy, they are the only major presence in the paddock now so winning is good for them. They also need to realise though that without the other manufacturers involvement their success will be seen as lacking somehow. If the TV deals don't come and they can't even work out a decent calendar for next year even Yamaha might get fed up eventually. | ||
| Classax |
The AMA TV deal for 14 & 15 are already done. BSB only has the big 4. The Italians are not really supporting it other than a few private Ducati. KTM and MV are yet to join the party. Its on America TV because Velocity needs original programs other than auction reruns. and its charter is "inter nation oh nal". BSB racing is decent but the climate of the market is different than the US. | ||
| Bads1 |
Matt the only team that left was Honda. They wanted works bikes or they would pick up there marbles and go home.... and they did. Kawasaki pulled because of the economy in all series. Suzuki stayed and complained but stayed non the less. Yamaha stayed as well. Ducati pulled out but again it was economy. Jordan liked the level of the field because he could begin to compete and said so in a interview. | ||
| Trojan |
Honda pulled out because AMA would not negotiate with them on rules structure. You can say it was throwing their tos out of the pram, or you could say that the AMA killed the golden goose. Kawasaki used the economy as a convenient excuse to leave, as they did in MotoGP. At the same time they increased their involvement with WSB and BSB hugely to good effect (winning both tites since they got involved). BMW & Aprilia never got involed in the AMA scene since DMG took over for the same reason as Ducati, they thought that their bikes didn't suit the rules so simply didn't enter. The economy was not a factor in any of the above. The AMA has not once thought to approach these factories to try and get some involvement or discussion going with them as far as I know. Suzuki and Yamaha are not factory entries but are run by 'privateer' teams. Teams lke Jordan were able to compete on a level field only becasue the series was effectivley denuded of top flight factory bikes, which has eventually led to the current dire situation they find themsleves in. KTM are in AMA simply because they know they don't have to fight against factory bikes like they would have to in WSb, so can appear more competitive. In reality they know that entering WSB would be a waste of time facing the factory machines of Honda, Kawasaki, Aprilia, Ducati etc. | ||
| Svh |
At the risk of feeding the troll. I happen to watch BSB. They have been airing on Velocity and are quite well broadcast. Yamaha and Suzukis involvement in AMA is quite small actually compared to pre-DMG. There is some factory support but not like it once was at all. | ||
| Bads1 |
Matt that's your speculation. As long as your ok with it that's all that matters. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt that's your speculation. I think it is a bit more than mere speculation when all the evidence backs it up  It is then called fact. | ||
| Jaimec |
No no no... then it's called a "Hypothesis." Further testing in the field eventually will refine it into a "Theory." Once you have indisputable proof, then it becomes "Law." | ||
| Lightstick |
All the evidence backed up the existence of Phlogiston, too. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting commentary on the AMA roadracing series and in particular Jordan's departure: http://cyclenews.uberflip.com/i/205581/96 | ||
| Blake |
Good article. DMG would do well to get John Ulrich to run AMA Pro's Road Racing. I'm very interested ito see John's sure to come editorial on the latest problems in AMA Pro Road Racing. The man understands the issues, is one of the hardest working people in the paddock, is honest, and has proved that he gets the job done even when others say it's impossible. Those with bruised egos need to man-up and step aside for the benefit of the sport and all who earn a living as part of it. |
