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Author Message   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:01 pm:        Road Racing World, during the past three issues, has been featuring some of the bikes being raced in AMA Formula Extreme this year. The Honda CBR600RR, the Buell XB and the Ducati 749R have been featured so far. Here's a table which summarizes their features. FX Bikes compared Road America AMA measured Cost to Bike HP Redline Weight Trap Speed Build CBR600RR 140 ??? 351 162.24 40-50k Buell XB1160RR 120 8500 365 161.89 20k plus Buell XB1290RR 135 7500 Ducati 749R 140 13500 368 161.60 60k   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:02 pm:        FX Bikes compared Bike Items labeled "Stock" by RRW CBR600RR airbox, shock linkage, swingarm, tach, throttle bodies, valve retainers Buell XB1160RR rearsets, rods, rear subframe, fairing mount & tach, front wheel & rotor. Frame is stock w/ welded on frame slider mounts. Buell XB1290RR Ducati 749R Airbox, crank, cylinders, pistons, rods, subframe, swingarm   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:03 pm:        Bike Chassis Modifications CBR600RR HRC Carbon Fiber rear subframe, WSS spec transmission, CBR1000RR Superbike Spec Showa suspension, $15,000 Motec Fuel Injection System, Jardine titanium exhaust system, Marchesini RC51 Superbike spec wheels. Pace (UK) oversized radiator. Brembo radial calipers Buell XB1160RR Sharkskins Fairing. Hal's ram air intake sytem, chain drive conversion kit/swinarm, Ohlins Fork, Penske Shock, Marchesini rear wheel, J-Stevens steel Exhaust system and oversized oil cooler. Buell XB1290RR Ducati 749R Ohlins suspension & Marvic magnesium wheels (16.5" Front, 17" Rear). Ducati FIM WSBK spec triple clamps. Ducati FIM WSS spec carbon fiber body work, titanium exhaust system, ECU, Fuel Injection System, gauge cluster, transmission, oversized radiator. Brembo radial calipers with smaller front brake rotors   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:04 pm:        Bike Engine Modifications "Unobtanium" Parts CBR600RR Stock balanced crank. HRC Cams, pistons, titanium valve shim buckets, valve springs. Cylinder heads ported by Byron Hines, Titanium Pankl Rods from Erion Racing. Buell XB1160RR Stroked and balanced stock crank, Millenium technologies cylinders, Wiseco pistons, Redshift 643 cams, composite pushrods, Screaming Eagle rocker arms, 48.3mm intake and 40.6mm exhaust steel valves, berylium-copper valve seats Buell Racing Prototype Twin downdraft throttle bodies, 8 piston front brake caliper, close ratio transmission. Buell racing programmable ECU. Buell XB1290RR Ducati 749R Increased compression, ported cylinder heads, Ducati Superbike spec cams & slipper clutch (Message edited by josé_quiñones on August 12, 2004)   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:06 pm:        Bike In their own words CBR600RR According to Dumahel's long time crew chief Al Ludington, the bike is not as exotic as it might seem, and, surprisingly one of the goals in building the machine was to produce a reacebike that Honda racing customers could reproduce. Duhamel's CBR is worth between $40,000 and $50,000 in Ludington's estimation, not cheap, but not expensive compared to the $250,000-$350,000 works Superbike lease. Ludington says that with a few substitutions, the customer could get more than 90 percent of the capability of Duhamel's machine while keeping the cost around $30,000. Buell XB1160RR So, could an aspiring FX-racer build this bike? And, if so, how much would it cost? For the most part, Galagan says yes. "Obviously, we have some internal motor parts that you can't buy off the shelf, but a good Harley tuner, I think, could get away with a (competitive) motor for about $5000," said Galagan. "Then buy the forks, rear wheel, swingarm and such from Hal's; it would be pretty affordable." Galagan estimated the total cost would be in the $20,000-plus range which, he said, is considerably less than the $40,000-$50,000 they were spending to try and make the old "tube-frame" Buells competitive. Buell XB1290RR Ducati 749R According to Meadley, the HMC Ducati is built completely with parts that are available to customers (though some not as readily as others), and is much closer to stock than most would think….. Hansen and Meadley both said that the HMC FX machine is something a customer could, for the most part, build from a catalog, and Meadley estimated it would cost around $60,000.   R1DynaSquid Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:36 pm:        Why no info on the 1290..or as we know em 1300 Buells?   José_quiñones Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:48 pm:        Look at the first table. I think the rest of the bike is the same no matter what engine is being used. here's some more info: Both engines have a 3.8 inch stroke The 1160cc uses the stock Blast/XB9 Stroke: 3.125, and they are revving it to 8500 rpm The 1290cc uses a 3.47 inch stroke, that one revs to 7500 rpm   Crusty Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:19 pm:        Do you mean both engines have a 3.8 inch bore?   Wyckedflesh Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:36 pm:        yes, 3.8 inch bore. I have the article also, and as soon as I can find it again I will double check the HP figures...the low one seems off but "I" very well could misremember it.   Blake Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:59 pm:        Why do you classify the Buell racing ECM as "unobtainium"? If you are a racer, you can get one. Time to let it go JQ. If you want, I'll help you get a belly pan.   R1DynaSquid Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:26 pm:        From what I have heard...the ecm they use is from Buell & is only made available to Hals & I believe Kosco..nobody else can get one.   Spike Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:17 pm:        So, what ECM is(was) Tilley's running?   R1DynaSquid Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:25 pm:        Tilleys wasnt getting the support that the other 2 teams were. Thats one of the reasons they got out.   Daves Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:31 pm:        Not true Dyna, it is available to ANY lic. racer, that races a Buell. From club racers to pros. Dave   R1DynaSquid Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:37 pm:        Did that change recently? If so, cool for the racers. In the past it was an unobtanium part.   Daves Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:22 pm:        Always been that way as far as I know. I know 3 teams that are using it. I am not sure if it's the same one Hal's and Kosco are running though? The one you can get is made to run with the existing FI. Dave   R1DynaSquid Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:26 pm:        Ahh, so there may be more than 2 "race" ecms out there. We have the generic one anyone can buy at the dealers. Then there is the one available for club racers And 3rdly there still may be an "unobtainable" one for pro race teams such as Hals & Kosco. Remember that Hals & Kosco dont run the existing FI setup, they have dual units.   Daves Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:42 pm:        Yeah I know, that's why I am not sure what they run. I am willing to bet that whatever they run would be made available to any other team that wanted to field a Buell in that class. Dave   Wyckedflesh Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:02 pm:        According to the article it is available to any racer, and is programmable.   Blake Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:46 pm:        The one I know that some club racers have received is fully programmable. What else would you need?   Blake Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:50 pm:        And at Laguna Seca the Buell FX machines were running the stock 6-piston calipers. They only tried the 8-piston version at Road America, where it didn't work as well as they had hoped.   Slaughter Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 02:42 am:        OK OK... I spent the day at Hals Monday. We're running the same ECM and they actually INVITED me to come in to ask dumb questions. The race ECM can control EVERY aspect of the motor. You set it up separately for each cylinder because the heating really does make the tuning different front to rear - kinda like tuning 2 big singles. You're controlling 2 injectors whether in my bored XB12 throttle body or if you use 2 completely separate throttle bodies. The software is DOS-based. If you're not used to programs that use look-up tables in a non-graphic format, might take some figuring out but does really give you good control of the motor - but also easy to melt it down if you're not careful. It just takes getting used to. It also controls fan speed and direction - temperature thresholds, stuff like that (not needed since the fan is out of the racebike) We got a module, yes but it's not really available from Buell on demand, you gotta do some begging but if you do have a built motor, you're out of the range that a normal Power Commander can do any good for you. By the way - the Hals guys are really open for business supporting not just racing but also offer comprehensive performance services at any level. Got a nickle tour. They are a great crew of folks who are really into this sport - and not just racing. I'll be having them re-build my S3 motor when it's time is up. Spent some time while there talking to Bilansky - our motors are similar - short stroke 1160. (Though I'm just not in his league as far as skills go!) He and Terry have really got the engine controls pretty well dialled in and offered some thoughts on setting redline - I dont' have a second/B bike - my motor has to last at least 3 months, I can't afford the rebuild-a-month-Club membership! Duga advised leaving redline at 7500 to have the motor last a LONG time but Bilansky said it's better to have it at 7800 because the rev limiter is pretty sharp and VERY hard on the bottom end. That extra 300 RPM can make a difference when drafting. Recommended shifting at 7500 - about the top of the curve anyways. I'm leaving the redline low just to keep the motor together longer. I'm also only running 10.5 to 1 compression and VP C10 gas. Pretty mild motor - might be good for about 110-HP Hope to have the XBeast on the track in a couple weeks. Dyno at Bartels next week... Maybe WERA Vegas, couple track days in early Sep and then F-USA in Vegas in September. Wooo hOOOO! By the way, I paid retail (less racer discount) for everything I got from Hals so am not obligated to promote them - I am just very impressed. (Message edited by slaughter on August 13, 2004) (Message edited by slaughter on August 13, 2004)   Cataract2 Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 06:54 am:        All I can say is wow. I can't believe they can make a bike like that with only 20K when the other teams (non Buell) spend 40K or more. I won't what they could get if they spent 40K for more mods.... Kudos to the Buell team.

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