| Author | Message | ||
     Rodrob |
Had a good weekend a Willow Springs. Finished 3rd in Formula Twins and Battle of the Twins, my best finish since turning "Expert" ( other than the rain race). But I am a little confused. The racer that I beat for third in the Formula race, while being friendly, cordial and excited about the quality of the race, made several off hand comments about choosing to not "stuff" me into the last corner when I pulled around the outside of him and took away the best line, for the win. I was getting a little tired about half way through, so I decided to let this racer behind me, pass in turn 8 (a high speed sweeper into the last straight), so that he would think that I could not get around him. I stayed on his six for the last three laps, which gave me a little rest and saved my tires. On the last lap, I passed him on the outside in turn 8 and took the good line through 9 to the straight for the win. I never was close bumping or pushing him off the track. I thought I made a good pass and took the line. I heard similar comments from another rider previously, when I did not give away the inside line that I had, when he was, ultimately, the faster racer. This was in the first lap, so I was not a back marker. So as an admittedly new racer, is there some unwritten or written rule of line and strategy? I would never intentionally do something to put my fellow racers at more risk, and will give the line to obviously faster racers, but we are racing. If I wasn't trying to find and take the best line, I wouldn't be. But I really love being a part of the community and want to be a good citizen. Opinions? | ||
| Trojan |
So long as you aren't riding dangerously it is up to him to find a way past you. There is no rule that says you have to let a faster rider through (unless you are being caught and lapped by the leaders of course!). Sometimes you will have a slower bike but need to ride 'interference' in order to beat a faster bike (Rossi vs Stoner at Laguna). Nothing wrong in that and it can take considerable skill and tactical awareness to do it so well done  | ||
| Duggram |
I'm interested in his first question, what about the rider in front of you and you take the good line away by going outside. I'm assuming this is going from one direction to the other, i.e. transitioning from a left turn to a right. Please say if I'm picturing this wrong. | ||
| Trojan |
I passed him on the outside in turn 8 and took the good line through 9 to the straight for the win. I read it that turn 8 was one direction adn turn 9 the other (like a chicane) in which case Rodrob has done th eright thing by passing the rider on the outside in order to line up the best run into the next corner. A classic and clean racing move that has been done by the best of them over the years. Any rider compaining about it would probably complain about anything given the opportunity. | ||
| Duggram |
Sorry, that's exactly what I was thinking. It's really early where I'm at. Just waking up. | ||
| Rodrob |
Turn 8 is a long, very fast right hand sweeper that opens up slightly at the end, and then tightens up considerable, in the same direction, becoming turn 9. It's a notoriously dangerous turn due to the speed. I passed on the outside of 8, getting far enough ahead to take the inside on 9 which is where the other racer would have wanted to be. But I has ahead at that point so I don't know how it would have even been possible for him to "Stuff" me. Perhaps I backed off enough in 9 that he had to slow. but isn't that racing? (Message edited by Rodrob on June 21, 2011) | ||
| Imonabuss |
If by choosing not to "stuff" you he meant choosing not to do something nasty that would have caused you to run off the track, then I would have to ask why he would even consider that choice. I know the track, and if you had the right line and he was behind you and is saying he could have driven you off the outside of 8 to stop you from being on the inside for 9, that is a really dangerous area and shame on him for even considering that. Good on you for having the skill to go around the outside. You did nothing wrong - be glad he didn't do something stupid. He may be trying to get into your head with the threat of running you off the next time, if so don't let it get to you. All this drama at a club race - that's a shame. | ||
| Rodrob |
I didn't take it as any kind of a threat. I really like the guys I race with and would never suspect that they would be malicious on the track. But the comment made me wonder if I was doing something at the club level that was questionable. Sounds like I'm OK. Right now the guys beating me are on Duc 1198s and 848s which easily pull me on the straights, so I am glad to have this racer to run with. He has always been supportive and friendly and has beaten me in the past. I expect he will give me good competition in the future. | ||
| Slaughter |
I wouldn't read too much into what he was saying. Yeah, he might have been implying that he "gave you" the line. I kind of took it as a bit of an ego thing on his part, him saying you ran a good race, and also letting you know that he "MIGHT" have beaten you had he chosen to do so. He's a cool guy and you did nothing wrong. My first-ever podium was gotten in 2005 when I passed Tim Martinez on the brakes going into T1. Very similar in that I knew that I could gain control of the line and force him to check up, so I just drove deeper into 1. He saw my wheel coming inside and he checked up. He COULD have stayed on it, run wide but he'd then have had a crappy line going into 2 for the last lap. He congratulated me on that move once we got to the pits after the race. I just saw "Titanium Tim Martinez" this weekend for the first time since 2005 and we STILL talked about that pass in that race. If we were doing the same moves on the street, he would have been justified in pulling me off the bike and breaking my jaw with a right hook - but we weren't riding, we were racing and 6 years later we still look back on it as a good pass and can smile. You ran a DAMNED GOOD RACE! | ||
| Nitto12ss |
a little off topic but I will be at Streets on the 26th and am always looking for fellow Buellers to hit up the track with. | ||
| Rodrob |
Thanks Steve, just checking. He is a cool guy and was also complimentary. I look forward to beating him again  . Gonna try to make it to streets on the 26th. | ||
| Nitto12ss |
Sweet, I'll be there with my dad. Will be in a white f-250 with a red Daytona 675 and a Black 1125r. Name is Walter, (951)534-4847. | ||
| Slaughter |
I can't do the streets or big track that weekend, I blew my fork seals on right side and blew the head gasket on the rear cylinder so I've gotta do maintenance. Forks (AK20 equipped) held up well for 5 years of abuse and are going back to Max at Traxxion. Walter - check with Tim and Candice Hurley - Trackxperience staff. Tim raced his Buell for years with us and Candice still runs her M2! (but they trade off on their CBR1000) | ||
| Nitto12ss |
Will do, glad to hear there are some fellow Buellers that are local and into track days. This will be my last one for about a month and a half due to the heat. You guys just ride willow, or do you go to other tracks? I have been to Buttonwillow, Streets and Chuckwalla so far. I'm new to the track game, this will only be my 5th time on a track, 2nd time on streets, but I was on the Daytona then. Going to take a wild guess that both of you guys run in A group. | ||
| Rodrob |
Oooops... track day is sold out! :-( | ||
| Nitto12ss |
Lame  | ||
| Slaughter |
I can't make it. I MUST get the forks off and rebuilt. Also need to replace the rocker gaskets. I'm blowing oil on the rear. | ||
| Blake |
If time had permitted, he could have drifted wide to cause you to check up, but he didn't. I don't call that "stuffing" though, just defending the line. You made a perfectly good and honorable pass on the guy and he needs to simply admit that. "Stuffing" implies that he could have gotten his front wheel up to yours coming into the turn and taken away the racing line. Sounds like he is deluding himself. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Slaughter is correct you did well, good move and congrats on the win. Twenty five years ago a guy by the name of Kenny put an end to the single file style of motorcycle racing of ancient times and it't never been the same since. Just watch any of the AMA DSB races and see how these guys always take what's offered by the guy in front of them. You might not do that during a track day or even a practice session at a race, but don't forget what he offered, because just like you did, you might need to stick it in there for the win. Great job and best of luck, Terry - www.jtsperformance.com |
