| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Here is a chunk from David Emmett's excellent motomatters.com blog site. It appears that Biaggi didn't even bother to attend the rider briefing prior to the event (which surely should be punishable in itself on safety grounds?) And so the Monza circuit and the event organizers came up with a solution, a chicane consisting of white lines on the run off area, then a narrow path delineated by more white lines serving as the entrance to the track. The riders were told during the briefing on Thursday afternoon about the situation at chicane, and the rules which were to be observed should they find themselves going straight on at the chicane. Any rider going straight on three times during the race would be penalized with a ride-through penalty, a punishment applied to Noriyuki Haga during race one. Additionally, any rider not returning to the track via the appointed path (by following the white lines) would also be given a ride-through penalty. One rider had not attended the briefing, however. That rider was Max Biaggi, and so when the Italian found himself running straight on at the chicane - despite sitting on a comfortable lead of nearly six seconds - he compounded the simple error (not braking in time) with a much more severe one (rejoining the race without following the correct procedure). Despite the fact that Biaggi gained little or no advantage, Race Direction had to apply the rules, and imposed a ride-through on the Italian, turning his 6-second lead into a 20-second deficit, and dropping him 11 places in the process. Biaggi had the opportunity at Monza to rake back 32 points from the championship leader Carlos Checa, but his lack of foresight in attending the rider briefing meant that he got less than half that. In effect, Biaggi's lapse of judgment cost the reigning World Champion 17 points, and it could have been more if he hadn't had a little help from a mechanical problem for Checa in the final laps of race two. 17 points can be a lot, and the title has been settled by less than that four times in the past ten years. Max Biaggi is a five-time world champion, four times in 250s and once in World Superbikes. He really should have known better. | ||
| Jaimec |
Okay Matt, THAT explanation I'll accept. Thanks for the clarification. | ||
| Fuzzz |
So, the leader was not penalized for overcooking the corner.... "Biaggi gained little or no advantage" ....but for coming out of the run off area incorrectly..... "rejoining the race without following the correct procedure" That is a much clearer "crime and punishment"....though invisible to the TV viewer... Thanks to David Emmet for clearing that up. | ||
| Trojan |
Biaggi (and others that 'ran on' at the chicane) should maybe think themselves lucky that they at least had the opportunity to continue the race. The arrangements at the same chicane had been very different just a week earlier at the Italian CIV championship round:  Those bales may be 'soft' but hitting one at 80mph+ could end your day racing  By the way, did anyone watch the Superstock 1000 race last weekend at Monza? One of the biggest and most spectacular multi bike crahses I have seen in a very long time, and no injuries! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivpjDlREV-8 | ||
| Daves |
well, crossing the line puts it in a whole new light. Thank you. | ||
| Jaimec |
<sigh> Just when you want to pull for him, you learn it was just Biaggi being "Biaggi." | ||
| Davegess |
Interesting to see how the AMA bikes compare to the WBSK bikes. About 2 seconds, some of which is rider but most is the bikes. I also like having 2 Irishmen running at the front. Pretty amazing for a tiny country, under 7 million for the north and republic combined I think, to have two guys. Reflects how many Irish kids -mostly from Ulster- race motorcycles. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Interesting to see how the AMA bikes compare to the WBSK bikes. About 2 seconds, some of which is rider but most is the bikes. Are they running the same course? Previous years they were running slightly different courses just so comparisons were impossible.} | ||
| Smoke |
same course this year. tune, tires and fuel separate WSB and AMA(DMG) SB. real crappy tv coverage for the AMA side as well. tim | ||
| Trojan |
Reflects how many Irish kids -mostly from Ulster- race motorcycles. It also helps if your dad was a world class racer as Johnny rea's dad was. Laverty is from a family that ALL race bikes, and has two brothers in BSB!! Neither had agood weekend at Miller though by the look of it. I missed the TV coverage of this round, but from the still photos I have seen there seems to have been one major component missing from the track...Spectators? It just looked like a big club race in the desert with nobody there to watch! Surely Miller won't feature on the WSB calendar for much longer. | ||
| Davefl |
I haven't seen numbers for this year but the 2010 attendance was 55,000. A tad bit more than a club race. I suspect attendance might be down a bit this year due to weather, not sure if you noticed the rain and cold temps. I would wager that they pick up another round in Texas rather than drop Miller. | ||
| Davegess |
Laverty did OK but compared to his double at Monza it was a disappointment. 4th and 5th. The place really seems to favor the Ducati's. Nobody could stay with them. I don't know what the attendance was but it was COLD. Lots of fresh snow in the mountains but just warm enough to rain Saturday and Sunday at the track. Monday barely cracked 50 degrees and it was windy. Not the sort of weather to attract a crowd. They have resigned for 2012 so hopefully they get better weather but it will be the same weekend. Yes these two have a great pedigree. I just happy to see a couple of the lads make it. Might encourage some of the teams to sign some of the young real road racers to rides in a short track series. These kids have a ton of talent and never make any money racing on the roads. Matt do you have any idea WHY Ulster became such a hot bed of racing on the roads? I don't think there are any road races in the Republic at all but in Ulster you have a race almost every weekend. | ||
| Davegess |
Matt do you have any idea WHY Ulster became such a hot bed of racing on the roads? I don't think there are any road races in the Republic at all but in Ulster you have a race almost every weekend. I spoke too soon, there are several Real Road Races in the Republic. I wonder if these became popular because in a poor country with no car or bike industry no one was going to spend money to build tracks? | ||
| Trojan |
Ireland has always been into 'real' road racing for some reason, and I think it has more to do with local laws rather than any particular lack of industry. Irish racers have also always been TT supporters and racers, as it is only a short hop for them. In England/Scotland/Wales it is almost impossible to to get a road closure order to enable racing of any kind on the roads, whereas in Ireland and Ulster it seems to be a lot easier, so they do. Ulster has got a couple of airfield circuits at Bishopscourt and Aldergrove (I think). The health and Safety brigade have turned their attention to road racing in Ireland though, and some meetings are in danger of being killed off because of this unfortunately. Even big events like the North West 200 are in danger unfortunately. | ||
| Trojan |
I haven't seen numbers for this year but the 2010 attendance was 55,000. That is pretty poor for a combined WSB/AMA Superbike weekend wouldn' you think? Brands Hatch used to get 100,000 just on race day for WSB! Found this on the MCN web site and although I don't necessarily agree with it I found it quite amusing Governor Apologizes Just in from Salt Lake City Chronicle On behalf of the people of Utah and my wives, I would like to apologize for the appalling facilities at the WSB round yesterday. There are really no excuses for a cold, windswept track, with mud and grass run offs, rutted turns where front tires dig in (sorry Reuben), badly designed drainage, rivers across the track and bobo marshaling. All 10 spectators will be eligible for a refund and express passes to the next (currently unscheduled) rapture. We look forward to next week’s tractor pull and to being the US joke of WSB competition next year. | ||
| Davefl |
I think 55,000 in a down economy in Utah is fair numbers. I don't care how many spectators used to attend Brands Hatch, Motorcycle racing is not as popular in the U.S. as it is in Europe, fewer races is not going to make that problem better. | ||
| Davefl |
Some of the issue is scale. Miller is a 2,400 mile drive for me and it is the nearest WSB race. That would be like someone in England having to go to Kazakhstan to watch a race. (Message edited by davefl on June 02, 2011) | ||
| Trojan |
I think 55,000 in a down economy in Utah is fair numbers. I don't care how many spectators used to attend Brands Hatch, Motorcycle racing is not as popular in the U.S. as it is in Europe, fewer races is not going to make that problem better. Some of the issue is scale. Miller is a 2,400 mile drive for me and it is the nearest WSB race. That would be like someone in England having to go to Kazakhstan to watch a race. Then why have a race there? Miller is miles from anywhere, so not atractive to spectators, is a pretty poorly maintained and organised facility from what I have seen in previous years, and gets a poor viewing audience in the US anyway, so why not just scrap it and race somewhere else where people do want to watch? Brands Hatch is 20 miles from London and gets 30,000 spectators at a decent club meeting with Bemsee over a weekend. BSB figures are far higher (Croft in North Yorkshire, the most remote track used in BSB, got around 65,000 over the weekend). I sometimes despair at 'modern' races in both F1 and bike racing (WSB and MotoGp) being staged at circuits in the middle of nowhere with no spectators, no interest and no atmosphere (Qatar, Bahrain, China, Turkey, Miller etc etc). It seems that TV audience is the number one priority when arranging fixtures these days, although the Miller round certainly didn't fit into any European TV slots! Anyone mad/rich enough to actually want to attend a race gets pretty short changed  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Then why have a race there? Miller is miles from anywhere, so not atractive to spectators, is a pretty poorly maintained and organised facility from what I have seen in previous years, and gets a poor viewing audience in the US anyway, so why not just scrap it and race somewhere else where people do want to watch? Bring em to Laguna Seca again. Nearly always makes for great racing, which Miller can't boast.....plus it's WAY closer to me! (Message edited by fresnobuell on June 02, 2011) | ||
| Davefl |
That would be a 2800 mile drive for me. I pulling for 2012 or 2013 in TX, that will only be a 1200 mile drive  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Texas wouldn't be bad. Dallas is a hub for American--one of the few "cheap" tickets out of Fresno. I could live with that! How close is that new track to the Dallas area? I drove from Houston to McAllen years back and it was a LONG haul. Texas is one big State! Didn't help that the girlfriends elderly Uncle insisted on leading AND driving the speed limit the whole way down. | ||
| Davefl |
Track being built near Austin, about 200 miles south of Dallas. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Fresnobuell: "Bring em to Laguna Seca again. Nearly always makes for great racing, which Miller can't boast.....plus it's WAY closer to me!" Bring em to Laguna Seca again. Nearly always makes for great racing, which Miller can't boast.....plus it's WAY closer to me! Trojan: "Then why have a race there? Miller is miles from anywhere, so not atractive to spectators, is a pretty poorly maintained and organised facility from what I have seen in previous years, and gets a poor viewing audience in the US anyway, so why not just scrap it and race somewhere else where people do want to watch" Absolutely not true. MMP is only 30 miles from a large metro area. Spectating is great from anywhere on the site. Poorly maintained, hog wash. Its way greener they ever and facilities are outstanding. Look at reviews. Nuf said. Fresno, it was some great racing, even in the wet conditions. I was there. Just a question; if attendance is the "only" reason to hold a race at any given track, why has WSB come to Millers two years in a row and signed again for next year. I am fairly sure the racers love our track and L.H. Miller has done everything to help racers, spectators and everyone involved to have a good outcome with outstanding racing. Most riders have said they absolutely love MMP. Weather is an unknown at any given time so all have to adapt to what Mother Nature gives us. The riders did an outstanding job given what they had to work with. Kudos to them. Also speaking to people in the pits visiting the teams, they were from all over this country and foreign countries as well. Just my take from a "spectators" perspective. The racing was impressive and great! Guys, rethink your perspective of MMP. P.S. MMP also has SCCA, WERA, Lucas Oil series, NASCAR and others as well as AMA & WSB. These venues must like something about it. Bob from Utah. (Message edited by Bob_thompson on June 02, 2011) (Message edited by Bob_thompson on June 02, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> Then why have a race there? I've been wondering that since they announced WSBK was going there. Makes no sense to me either. Your two seconds difference in machines is tough to defend with a former MotoGP star pulling the best lap times in WSBK. The rider matters, yes? Try comparing the best AMA race lap (1:50.4) to Haslam's best in race one (1:50.6).  http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/results.cfm? eid=2011011115 http://sbk.perugiatiming.com/pdf_frame.asp?p_S_Cam pionato=SBK&p_Anno=2011&p_Round=USA | ||
| Guy_glover |
I had a good time and think the track was great! Spectator viewing is good from just about anywhere on the track. Don't know what spectator numbers where but seemed like a pretty good turnout to me. | ||
| Blake |
I can vouch for what Bob says though, that Miller is a first class facility and the racers seem to like it. | ||
| Trojan |
Your two seconds difference in machines is tough to defend with a former MotoGP star pulling the best lap times in WSBK. The rider matters, yes? Try comparing the best AMA race lap (1:50.4) to Haslam's best in race one (1:50.6). I can't remember bringing this up, but you are comparing the BEST AMA lap with a lap by Haslam that finished him way down field, so hardly a fair comparison when BMW suffered from dire problems all weekend If you want to compare 'best lap times' then the only fair way is to compare best AMA against best WSB surely? | ||
| Davegess |
I can't remember bringing this up I stirred this pot Matt. I wonder how much is the bike and how much the rider? The bikes are very close to stock in AMA. | ||
| Trojan |
I stirred this pot Matt. I wonder how much is the bike and how much the rider? The bikes are very close to stock in AMA. It is an argument that can be used in all classes really. I remember a few years ago when Steve Hislop lapped Donington Park on a BSB spec Superbike faster than the MotoGP lap record everyone thought they would be comparable, but in a real race there would be no comparison because times alone do not take into consideration the changing conditions, tyres fitted or ability of individual riders over a race distance. Take this weekend at Catalunya FP2: Simone Corsi lapped at 1.47.3 in Moto2 using what is a reasonably stock (compared to WSS spec) Honda CB600RR engine. Thsi would put him less than a second back from the back of the MotoGP grid (Hector Barbera 1.46.5) but we all know that they would not run that close in a race and the Moto2 bike would get hammered. The only way to tell would be in a straight race. Same tyres, conditions and similar riders ability over a full race distance. AMA bikes are almost Superstock spec with upgraded suspension as far as I know, which is very similar to the BSB EVO class. BSB EVO bkes are allowed full WSB spec suspension but superstock spec engines, so are actually slightly higher spec than AMA Superbike. A good BSB EVO rider (Alex Lowes) managed to put his Honda on the front row of a BSB race and ran with the leaders for around 5 laps before his tyres started to wear. From that point on he was losing 1-2 second every lap simply because of the lack of electronics on his bike adapting to the tyre wear and traction changes. Not as simple as it looks unfortunately | ||
| Court |
>>>>>>when BMW suffered from dire problems all weekend They should address their unreliability problems before they pursue racing. |
