| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Doesn't really contradict what I've been saying. Mat's crank wasn't any different than Ben's or Tommy's. Same crank they'd been using for years, but only Mat was penalized. More important is this quote from the second article I posted:
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| Blake |
Jaime, The RRW article which Crusty references states clearly that "The crankshaft is stronger than a standard GSX-R1000 crankshaft." That would be a violation, a blatant one. The article concludes by noting that
Nice try by American Suzuki. They submitted a different crank to their own hand picked expert, and they conveniently avoided addressing the issue of strength in the analysis. Fail. A stronger crankshaft can easily match the exact geometry and mass of an inferior/weaker production part. It was the fact that it was deemed stronger that constituted the blatant violation, not that it provided any kind of HP advantage. (Message edited by Blake on April 20, 2011) | ||
| Trojan |
Turns out that the fuel pump on Biaggis bike wasn't illegal...according to Aprilia tech chief and Frank Zappa lookalike Gigi Dall'Igna. He says that it is exactly the same unit as fittwed to Camier and Hagas bike but just has a different date stamp...Yeah right. The FIM tech guys were obviously born yesterday and can't figure out things like that first? | ||
| Crusty |
Here's another link to an update on the Suzuki cranks: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=34166 (Message edited by Crusty on April 20, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Matt, Have there been any credible corroborating reports on the Biaggi fuel pump issue? If not, then the reporting source might be suspect? | ||
| Jaimec |
Edmundson was a MORON and the best thing that ever happened to AMA Racing was him leaving it. | ||
| Trojan |
Have there been any credible corroborating reports on the Biaggi fuel pump issue? If not, then the reporting source might be suspect? The 'rumours' were from a 'usually credible' source inside the WSB paddock apparently, and there is often no smoke without fire. If Aprilia were given a warning by the FIM (which it appears they were) then there must have been more to it than just a date stamp on the pump being different I think. We'll probably never know the complete truth of the matter though (until the Flammini brother write their memoirs at least!). It has been suggested that there can't have been a problem because the other teams didn't lodge a formal protest. I don't buy this, as other teams may have had reasons for not protesting other than innocence or otherwise of Aprilia. It could be that they don't want to start a protest war as they don't want their bikes looked too closely. Maybe they are just waiting for a decent excuse to make a protects that would stick? Who really knows? (Message edited by trojan on April 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Way to dodge the issue Jaime.  | ||
| Jaimec |
Blake: No different than the way most BadWebber's disregard any posting from Superbike Planet. FACT: Spies used the same crank. FACT: So did Hayden. FACT: Suzuki said they'd been using that same crank for YEARS. FACT: ONLY Mladin was penalized. FACT: Edmundson had it in for Mladin because Mat refused to tow the DMG line and spoke up against it at every opportunity. (Message edited by jaimec on April 21, 2011) | ||
| Crusty |
Suzuki cheated. They got caught. Then they lied about it. Those are facts. They aren't the first, and won't be the last. | ||
| Blake |
>>> FACT: Spies used the same crank. Not so much. | ||
| Blake |
You're still dodging the issue. As Crusty points out, they cheated and then lied about it. "Suzuki said" Suzuki are proven liars. If they used that crank for years in AMA SBK, then they were cheating for years. If they were using it for years elsewhere, it's irrelevant. What you are pretending to pass off as facts are merely your own unsubstantiated hugely biased opinions. | ||
| Jaimec |
If that's what you think, you're welcome to your opinion, Blake. It IS your board, after all. I suppose Ben Spies was cheating, then, when he walked all over the World Superbike grid with Yamaha and his talent had NOTHING at all to do with it. Of COURSE! That explains it! MotoGP is far better policed than either World Superbike OR AMA Superbike, which is why Ben has only been running mid pack. I should've figured that out myself. Thank you for opening my eyes. | ||
| Jaimec |
Good article on Carlos here: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/wsbk-old-do gs-new-tricks/ | ||
| Jaimec |
Looks like Kawasaki borrowed a page from "How to Fund a Company, by John DeLorean" http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/kawasaki-wo rld-superbike-team-trucks-drugs-gun/ | ||
| Jaimec |
Ah Max... | ||
| Crusty |
"Careful with that ax, Eugene..." | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
2nd manche = a scandal | ||
| Trojan |
What a weekend! Biaggi looks more amateurish as time goes by... Mistake 1: You are already onpole position by a country mile, so instead of staying in the garage he decideds to go out to set 'the fastest lap ever' at Monza. Risking injury, breakdown or mechanical wear for no reason. Very rookie mistake. Race 1. More mistakes than you can shake a stick at. If I was haslam I would have punched Biaggi at the end of th erace for cutting infront after making countless schoolboy errors. Race 2. If you cut a chicane then at least make it look like you are slowing down and not taking an advantage. Riding through with your head down behind the screen doesn't look good and will get you a ride through penalty. Biaggi did exactly the same thing at Monza in 2009 so should know the score by now! Haga got hit with the same penalty in race one, so no excuses. Altogether Aprila/Biaggi really did blot hteir copy book this weekend when everyone thought they would run away with both races. Good result for Eugene Laverty and Yamaha though, and keeps the championship interesting  If anyone is looking for unnecassary penalties they should feel sorry for Luca Scassa, who finished second in the WSS race at Monza. He was later disqualified because he had been teaching at his race school at Misano (riding an R1 Yamaha) earlier in the week, and WSB/WSS regulations say that you cannot practice on a circuit used by the championship other than at your teams nominated test track (Aragon for the ParkinGo team). I thought he would have got a fine or slap on the wrist at most, but a disquailication from the race after the result was bit harsh methinks. | ||
| Jaimec |
Biaggi was ROBBED in Race 2. He DID slow down, it was very clear in the broadcast I watched and both announcers were as shocked and outraged as I was. Far be it from me to NORMALLY have any sympathy for him, but that was just overkill. | ||
| Trojan |
Biaggi was ROBBED in Race 2. He DID slow down, it was very clear in the broadcast I watched and both announcers were as shocked and outraged as I was. His lap time was miles faster than normal on that lap, showing that he certainly didn't slow as much as he should have done. But just slowing down isn't enough in this instance. You really have to show that you acknowledge you have done wrong and slow down substantially so that you gain NO TIME or position. Look at others that missed the chicane (Haslam at least once + others)and they all sat up to show they were slowing substantially before rejoining behind people they had been fighting with. Biaggi should have done the same but didn't. Biaggi/Aprilia should know this by now, after all it isn't the first (or last) time he has been hit with a ride through penalty for missing a chicane (although he usually ignores them and gets black flagged anyway!). Haga got the same penalty in race one and made no complaint. Aprilia are not going to challenge or appeal against the Biaggi decision so I think they know they were wrong too. Biaggi had a 5 second lead at the time, so didn't need to be pushing so hard he missed his braking marker, which AGAIN casts doubt on his judgement considering he is a multi world champion. His behaviour in race one should have got him a ban for race two in my opinion for dangerous riding (In motoGP it probably would have). He missed apexes and outbraked himself on countless occasions, but managed to keep his position by blocking and cutting up Haslam and Melandri every time. Rookie errors and rookie riding from Max I'm afraid. Maybe the glitzy gold gloves and boots went to his head  | ||
| Trojan |
If anyone is looking for unnecassary penalties they should feel sorry for Luca Scassa, who finished second in the WSS race at Monza. He was later disqualified because he had been teaching at his race school at Misano (riding an R1 Yamaha) earlier in the week, and WSB/WSS regulations say that you cannot practice on a circuit used by the championship other than at your teams nominated test track (Aragon for the ParkinGo team). I got this slightly wrong ealier  Scassa has not been disqualified from the Monza round but HAS been disqualified from taking part at the Misano round of the WSS series this year because of hie deemed 'illegal practice session' at the track Chaz Davies must be having a wry smile at his teammates misfortune seeing as the title seems to be almost certainly going to one of the two Yamaha riders (barring accidents of course) | ||
| Fuzzz |
I don't usually chime in here, but the ride through penalty for Max was unreasonable, just goes to show the AMA/DMG isn't the only sanctioning body that makes mistakes...NOBODY's perfect. | ||
| Simond |
Gaining an advantage by cutting out part of the track not unreasonable? I don't have the times but the commentary I was listening to suggested that the lap was faster than his previous laps. Allowing this to go unsanctioned sets quite a precedent!! | ||
| Fuzzz |
As an unbiased observer, it was obvious he didn't "cut" the corner, he overcooked it, took the built in escape route, slowed down, sat up, checked traffic behind him, and remained upright for a reasonable amount of time before resuming his pace. He wasn't trying to pad a HUGE lead, he was trying to stay on two wheels and win the race. I say all this as a non WSBK fanatic. As JamieC said, even the announcers were shocked at the decision, and showed enough replays to prove Max's innocence. Shame on the FIM. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I agree that a ride-through was a bit harsh, he had no other rider to use as a marker to know when/where to get back on the track as to not gain an advantage. The time that he gained (taken from lap time differences between the previous lap and the short-cut lap) should have been subtracted from his overall time at the end of the race. He would have probably still won, and been assessed a penalty that matched the amount of time that he unknowingly and un-intentially gained. I realize that is hard to do, because on track racing is not all about time, BUT he was in the lead by alot and it probably wouldn't have made any difference. Just the way I saw it. Your results may vary. | ||
| Daves |
Yep, I watched it too. Max got hosed. When you are already 5 sec ahead it would be kind of tough to judge just how long you should slow down to show you did not gain an advantage? | ||
| Simond |
Seriously guys. Are you suggesting that all laps where the chicane is missed are adjusted back to some average for all riders? I fail to see the difference between "cutting" the chicane and overcooking it. He gained time by missing the chicane. Surely you can't say that this shouldn't matter because he was say 5 seconds ahead of the next guy. What if it was three seconds or one or if he was behind someone and managed to close up a bit? It was made clear to all the riders the consequences of cutting the chicanes - why should Max be exempt. How would you write the rule that says that in Max's situation it was ok but in others not? | ||
| Fuzzz |
"Cutting" the corner would be defined as purposely going straight though the run off area without slowing or looking back, "overcooking" would be defined as entering the corner too fast, realizing you are about to crash, standing the bike up, and proceeding through the run off area while checking traffic to make sure you didn't gain any positions in the process. Several other racers were also guilty of "overcooking" throughout the race, (highly paid professional WSBK racers)but as long as they came out of the corner in the same position as they entered, they were not penalized. It seems there may be a double standard, and some folks just seem bent on punishing the fellow who was kicking the other racers @$$e$..... | ||
| Trojan |
"Cutting" the corner would be defined as purposely going straight though the run off area without slowing or looking back, "overcooking" would be defined as entering the corner too fast, Doesn't matter what your exact definition is, the fact is he cut the corner and gained time. Whether it was deliberate or not doesn't matter as the chicane is part of the track and is there to be followed. However just to clear this up, the actual judgement of the FIM was that the ride through penalty was NOT actually given for gaining time, but for rejoining the track in contravention of the track markings and for crossing a white line that he should have observed. These things are well covered in detail during rider briefings prior to the race and Max has enough experience to be aware of it (if he bothered to listen to rider briefings of course). He isn't some rookie in his first season who can claim to be ignorant of minor rules and ifringements, but a multi world champion who should know better. He has made similar mistakes before (at the same track!!) and been penalised for them so really should be aware by now. I have very little sympathy for Aprilia in WSBK at the best of times, but this incident was a fair judgement and Biaggi should take his punishment like a man |
