| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
I keep forgetting that in WSBK it's four bikes to a row, not three...  | ||
| Jaimec |
Trojan's favorite racer does the double, but we now have an Italian World Champion on an Italian motorcycle. The Roman Emperor is crowned in Imola, Italy! Good for Max! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I am glad that Aprilia got the title !! It gives WSBK more interest if there are many manufacturers winning the title. Once again Biaggi did not perform under pressure. Biaggi messed up race 1 , and he is lucky Haslam lost the 2nd place in race 1 and had a DNF in race 2 , otherwise he would have some more pressure in the next 2 races. Also Biaggi made some "stupid" commnents, after he got the title, about the results he always achieves , if he has the team he "deserves". Anyway , his performance during the year was good , so he deserved this title. Maybe next year it is BMW's turn to get a WSBK title , after signing Haslam for 2011, who I think is the greatest talent in WSBK at the moment. | ||
| Jaimec |
Have they confirmed Haslam? I haven't seen anything to that effect. On the other hand, it blows Ducati's credibility right out of the water when they claim they can't compete against the "semi-prototype four cylinder bikes" in WSBK. Was it just me, or were FIVE of the six podium finishers this weekend on Ducatis? And didn't Haga win one of the two races in Germany prior to Italy? Ducati just can't admit they can't afford to run a WSBK team AND pay Rossi's salary in MotoGP. And I'm becoming convinced Ducati bought "damaged goods." Rossi (and presumably Burgess) will definitely help develop the bike, but I think next year we'll see Nicky on the box more often than Vale (unless his shoulder undergoes a miraculous recovery in the off-season). | ||
| Xb1125r |
He is italian and there is nothing wrong with being cocky as long as you can back it up. I say Max good for you and your team, you do deserve it becuase you oviously did work harder and so did your team to get this. as far as Rossi, he will be back and even being hurt he will do better the Stoner, I hate to say it, but the Honda bike will be again a dissapointment. | ||
| Jaimec |
Just saw this... Max sticks it to Ducati! http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Sep/100927.htm | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Ducatis have always gone well at Imola , so lets wait for France to have a better idea. Aprilia's RSV4 is a great bike that had a big power advantage this year. But you cannot blame Aprilia for having the fastest bike , but I personally think that the cam driven gears was somehow "cheating". But the RSV4 was the fastest bike even with chain driven gears , so we can get over this. It was a big blow for Ducati to loose from Aprilia , hence they are somehow "bad loosers" this year. Ducatis are very competitive , they are just been missing the right rider. Checa had a great season , but he did not have support from a factory team. Maybe next year he could do better since Althea Ducati is promised more support from the factory. But I doupt he has what it takes in consistency for a championship. In any way Aprilia and Biaggi are very worth of this title. Haslam was realesed from Alstare Suzuki and he is certain to join BMW , which is great news for WSBK and BMW. Tardozzi has made many positive steps for BMW and indicates how important a good race manager is for a team . Comparing the 2009/2010 seasons for Ducati and BMW and it is obvious . | ||
| Jaimec |
If I recall correctly, Ducati STILL has a shot at the manufacturer's title. That WILL be decided in France at the next round. You can bet Max will do all he can to seal that deal for his "second family." | ||
| Jaimec |
Just saw this morning on the official BMW Facebook page that they've confirmed signing Haslam for 2011. So what happens to Toseland? | ||
| Trojan |
I missed this weeks WSB racing but it appears to have been the expected Ducati benefit by the sound of it. Checa certainly seems to have raised his game considerably since joining Althea Ducati and is certainly riding much better than I have seen from him in years (if ever!). If one man stands out from this weekend besides the race and championship winners, it must be Tom Sykes! To grab pole position (even in damp conditions) on the age old and uncompetitive ZX10 and then follow that up with two very strong race results is a great achievement and if Kawasaki don't sign him for next year there is something very wrong indeed. Toseland may end up at BMW alongside Haslam and Corser if rumours are to be believed, albeit in a 'satellite' factory BMW team. The strong talk is either of a 3 man factory squad or a semi factory satellite team with the same level of equipment and backup, which shows BMW's ambition to claim their first WSB title and knock Aprilia of their perch next year. With both Aprilia and BMW running a full testing programme and development schedule I don't think the other manufacturers will get much of a look in next year (unless the Kawasaki is as good as they say it will be). Suzuki have pretty much admitted they will not be supporting WSB next year and both Yamaha and Honda have old models that will need replacing in order to get near the European manufacturers. Ducati are a dark horse of course, and will plough resources into Checa's team next year (as if they aren't already). | ||
| Vagelis46 |
This race changed my view for Tom Sykes completely . He was on a mission !!! It has been a long time since I saw someone really going 100%. Leading race 1 was a true miracle !!! Maybe next year's BMW might be worst than this year's Suzuki , so there might be another "lost" year for Haslam , who I rate very high. Haga joining a satelite-factory Aprilia , that is kept very quiet, might prove interesting , but I basicaly think that Haga has lost his "desire" . I expect Shakey Byrne to leave WSBK , since his performance was once again very poor . | ||
| Trojan |
Maybe next year's BMW might be worst than this year's Suzuki , so there might be another "lost" year for Haslam , who I rate very high. Unlikely given the massive investment and testing that BMW have embarked upon since they came into WSB. They are probably spending more money on this project than the rest of the factories put together (including Aprilia) and running a leading young rider alongside Corser can ony improve their chances (so long as Haslam feels comfortable on the bike of course). The latest paddock rumour is that Feel racing (The Ducati Xerox team) may run another BMW squad next year by teaming up with BMW Motorrad Italia (2010 Superstock winners). This could be the 'satellite' ride that Toseland was conected with. I expect Shakey Byrne to leave WSBK , since his performance was once again very poor . Shakey has had a terrible season by his standards, especially after going so well in winter testing. Teams know that he is capable of much more and he is linked to possible rides at Ten Kate and other teams in WSB for next year (if they can raise any money to run two riders that is). Two decent top ten results last weekend won't harmis cause looking for a new ride  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
It is sad that KTM does not show any interest in WSBK anymore. They were supposed to race in WSBK years ago, but it doesn't look like it will ever going to happen. Since there is the same weight limit for 2cyl and 4cyl bikes , it is now very clear that a 1200cc twin is very competitive in WSBK. So what is KTM's excuse ??? On the other hand Buell kept his promise and is now racing in AMA Superbike. I hope that a succesful 2011 AMA championship will lead to WSBK in 2012, and give Buell fans in Europe a chance to follow Buell racing closely. | ||
| Trojan |
On the other hand Buell kept his promise and is now racing in AMA Superbike. I hope that a succesful 2011 AMA championship will lead to WSBK in 2012, and give Buell fans in Europe a chance to follow Buell racing closely. That can only happen if they build 3000 homologated road bikes can't it? KTM had a long term plan to race in WSB but started in German IDM Superbike racing to start with. I think the recession scuppered any plans they had to race in WSB though and I really can't see them running a factory team at world level right now unless a major sponsor steps up and pays the bills for racing and development as well. The RC8R has been quite succesful in the 'restricted' IDM Superbike championship, but I don't know how it would fare in the 'full power' WSB. There is one privateer KTM RC8 running in the BSB 'EVO'class but it is invariably lapped and at the back of the field every week. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"That can only happen if they build 3000 homologated road bikes can't it? " I think that Aprilia took care of this problem , with their "cam gear cams" kit , that was allowed to run in WSBK!!! Buell sells a 1200cc kit , and they have built more than 3000 homologated 1125Rs. Problem solved !!! That 1125RR has proven me wrong for the ZTL2 system. They actually made it work. Impressive !! KTM had produced a lot of hype for their RC8 and their WSBK efford. It is proven that the RCB is not a good platform to race. Some fellow racers that tried to race the RC8, they actually did not like it and switced to 1098R beore the season started. | ||
| Jaimec |
Unfortunately, the 1190R is more than just an 1125R with a punched out motor. A LOT more. There are all kinds of rumors floating about on the internet (and especially here on BadWeb) about the street-legal 1190RS, but no one who KNOWS the facts is volunteering anything. It would take MAJOR sponsorship dollars for Erik to be able to float a WSBK effort in any event. AMA SBK is a more realistic goal for the time being. Once it's proven there, then we will see... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Unfortunately, the 1190R is more than just an 1125R with a punched out motor. A LOT more. " All WSBK bikes share very little components with the homologated bikes. | ||
| Trojan |
All WSBK bikes share very little components with the homologated bikes. but they all start as homologated road legal bikesl, regardless of what happens to them after that (within the rules obviously). Once the make the required number of bikes they can of course offer 'race kits' for those bikes afterwards. The 1125R was never homologated for WSBk use as far as Iknow, so couldn't be used as the homologation model for the 1190. WSBK has suffered some embarressing incidents in the past where manufacturers promised to build the required number of road bikes but never did (Foggy Petronas, Bimota to name but 2) so I think in future they will want to inspect the road bikes in the required volume before allowing anything into the series. AMA Superbike has no homologation as far as I know, although if you turned up on a Roehr or Voxan the may pull a face  | ||
| Davegess |
AMA Superbike requires that the bike be for sale as a street legal machine in the USA. I think it must be for sale during the year you are racing. They allow fairly small changes to these bikes. There seems to be no minimum number requirement as to built or sold BUT the sold bike must be EPA and DOT legal. I think the raced bike needs to have a VIN sticker meeting all the US regulations. This does seem to leave a pretty big hole to drive a special race bike though. Couldn't anyone build a "special" and sell it through a handful of dealers? The street legal deal would limit what you could do and raise the expense of producing the bike so that may be all that is needed to keep the specials away. | ||
| Jaimec |
Looks like they've changed the rules since Harley built 50 VR1000s and sold them as street bikes in POLAND. Somehow, that qualified the bike for AMA Superbike "back in the day." Fifty USED to be the magic number for AMA Superbike... not sure if that's changed or not. As for the Roehr... I believe all bikes in AMA Superbikes must be normally aspirated. The supercharged Roehr wouldn't qualify. (Message edited by jaimec on September 29, 2010) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I have a feeling that if someones wants to race a bike in WSBK and the organisers think that they will benefit , it is going to race one way or another. Was there a problem when FoggyPetronas or Bimota raced ?? No , it was actually much more interesting . Rules can always change.... Talking about special bikes....Who can build a more "special" bike than Kawasaki Racing or Aprilia Racing , who have huge amount of racing experience and success ?? So the "fear" of a small manufacturer (eg. Roehr) building something "extra special" and beating the "big brands" is not very easy to happen. If there is a team in Europe that thinks a 1190RR is a competitive racing platform and approaches FIM , then there is going to be a Buell on the WSBK grid , one way or another. Then all we need is Casey Stoner as the pilot , and the WSBK title is ours !!!!  | ||
| Elvis |
I think the reality is that the Superbikes have become refined to a point that it's difficult for anyone to jump in at any price point. The Lucas Oil Superbike challenge has a pretty much "anything goes" rule structure (http://www.superbikechallenge.com/rules/), but the only bike that really took advantage of that was Geoff on the 1190 (actually they used the 1125 engine to my understanding) http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=40657 Theoretically, Michael Czysz could have shown up with his bike or somebody could have brought a Desmosedici or Bimota, but the reality is those bikes likely wouldn't look all that great against well tuned Superbikes. If somebody like Ducati or BMW decided to create a special, low-volume bike to compete in AMA, they probably could do it . . . but they don't really have any reason. And I don't think it's realistic that somebody working out of their garage could put something together that would be competitive. So I think the AMA is fairly safe to keep their rules fairly open. If, at some point, they have to address someone taking advantage, they can do that at the time, but until that time, it's nice to have a venue in which someone like Erik Buell Racing can get a start without selling 3000 bikes. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"And I don't think it's realistic that somebody working out of their garage could put something together that would be competitive. " Exactly ! | ||
| Davegess |
Erik is not very far above working out of his garage at this point. | ||
| Elvis |
I said it wasn't "reaistic", I didn't say it was impossible.  | ||
| Davegess |
Erik and the elves working out of a garage is a pretty powerful stuff. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Are there any air intake restrictors for the Buell 1125RR&1190RR and Ducati 1098R in the AMA Superbike , as there are 50mm restrictors for the 1198R in WSBK ?? | ||
| Trojan |
Are there any air intake restrictors for the Buell 1125RR&1190RR and Ducati 1098R in the AMA Superbike , as there are 50mm restrictors for the 1198R in WSBK ?? I think AMA is far more restrictive than WSBK rules for pretty much all bikes, and the 1190 isn't eligible for AMA Superbike. WSBK is a long way from any domestic Superbike championship when it comes to resources required and funds necessary to run a full and competitive team (and there is little point doing it unless you can run a properly funded and developed team). Why do you think Triumph, KTM, MV and a host of other 'superbike' manufacturers don't do it? Even if Buell could get the homologation problems sorted it would be a poison chalice to go into WSBK without a proper factory team capable of taking on the established BMW/Aprilia/Yamaha/Honda teams. Unless they can run a team that is capable of running at the front of the WSBK field it could do their reputation more harm than good. | ||
| Jaimec |
By the way, in regards to Ducati... THEY were the ones that specified the air restrictors as a concession to running 20% more displacement than any other bike on the grid. Good to see the FIM finally grew a pair and told them "Enough is enough." It's WORLD Superbike, not the "Ducati Cup." They'd been given too damned many concessions in the past as it was. If Ducati was THAT married to the V-Twin, they'd be running a twin cylinder in MotoGP. Since they aren't, and they've pretty much proven they can build a competitive V-Four, maybe they should just suck it up and build a V-Four superbike. BMW was able to divorce themselves from the air-cooled boxer to build a competitive Superbike, so Ducati should be able to as well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If your goal is to get manufactures racing bikes with the most possible cylinders, that's a great plan. |
