| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
When a team/rider loses , there will always be "something" the others teams/riders have that "help" them win, more cc, mor cyls , better tires , better electronics, etc. People just cannot accept losing that easily . No matter what people say , so far Dukes were winning because of their better chassis and handling , AND because they had the best rider.....Fogarty , Bayliss , Toseland. If the rules were favouring Ducati , how was it possible for Corser&Suzuki , Toseland&Honda , Spies&Yamaha , Biaggi&Aprilia get the title ? If the rules were favouring Ducati why Biaggi did not get a title aboard the Ducati 1098R ??? As far as Triumph , I am happy that this bike is doing so well , and we get to watch and hear something different than Jap IL4s . It would be a same that rules based an equal cc , would mean that this bike would have to stop racing in WSS , dont you agree ?? | ||
| Blake |
Moto2 holds little appeal for me. I don't know the racers, and the machines are of little interest. You can have it. Matt, we already have a series for the 1000cc bikes, no? Superstock? An overdog Honda V-5 or V-6 superbike would be great? Only for rabid Honda fans. Again, WSBK will lose a LOT of fans if they ditch the twin cyl bikes. | ||
| Trojan |
Again, WSBK will lose a LOT of fans if they ditch the twin cyl bikes. WSBK won't ditch twin cylinder bikes, the factories that race in WSB will. Unlike some spectators, the factories that race do so to win and it doesn't really matter to them if they have 2,3,4 or 5 cylinder engine to do it with. Ducati are really the only exception to this as they have built their company on twin cylinder bikes (although not exclusively) over many years. They already have a feasible platform for V4 engined WSB bike in the Desmoseddicci, so if they can make it affordable in order to build enough of them I would expect to see a variation of this motor in the next Ducati 'superbike'. Who then will race a twin regardless of the advantages handed out by the rules? KTM don't look as keen as they were about a transition to WSB and nobody else makes a twin cylinder bike eligible or competitive enough for the series. So long as WSB continues on the present course then I would expect to see a full grid of 4 cylinder bikes by 2012. If they revert to a more Superstock set of rules then maybe we'll see some KTM and Ducati Twins again. Matt, we already have a series for the 1000cc bikes, no? Superstock? I think you'll find that Superstock operates similar cc rules to Superbike, which allows Ducati and KTM to run their 1200 twin against the 1000cc fours. An overdog Honda V-5 or V-6 superbike would be great? Only for rabid Honda fans. What if it was a V5 Triumph, Benelli, Buell or Ducati rather than Honda? So long as the factories are allowed to build road bikes purely to win at WSB ( and the public keep buying them!) such as Aprilia, BMW and Kawasaki are doing now, we will have MotoGP style bikes competing in a 'production' class and the road bikes will get more and more track focussed and irrelevant to most road riders  Any manufacturer looking to compete in WSB will have to have a road legal GP bike in their lineup in order to compete, and none of them will be twins I can assure you. With the MotoGP rules changing to allow 'production based' 1000cc 4 cylinder engines in 2012 it makes even less sense for a manufacturer to design and build any other engine configuration at all, so expect to see more identikit BMW engines very soon. No matter what people say , so far Dukes were winning because of their better chassis and handling , AND because they had the best rider.....Fogarty , Bayliss , Toseland. When Foggy won his titles there was very little practical opposition except other Ducatis and two fast Hondas. Likewise Toseland faced even less opposition in his first championship win for Ducati. His win for Ten Kate Honda was probably harder fought and more satisfying for him I would think. | ||
| Trojan |
Moto2 holds little appeal for me. I don't know the racers, and the machines are of little interest. You can have it. That is of course your opinion and privilege, although I must say that you are missing the most exciting international racing that I have seen for many years (notwithstanding the terrible events at Misano this weekend). Moto2 is atracting huge entry lists, massive spectator following and huge sponsor interest, so it must be doing something right? It will also nurture most of the future stars of international GP racing. Maybe everyone running the same engine has something to do with it, or it may be the relatively low cost of going racing in Moto2, or it may just be that they have hit upon a lucky formula? Whatever it is, it works very well so far. If all you want to watch is close racing then one make/spec class racing is sometimes the best you can see. if you want technical prowess and engineering marvels then it has to be MotoGP. | ||
| Jaimec |
Blake, Kenny Noyes is an American racing in Moto2. Surely you should show him SOME support? Saw the race in Indy. Amazing spectacle! | ||
| Blake |
I need at least two of three factors to gain my interest in any racing series... Interest in the racers themselves, interest in the machines, closely contested racing. Lacking two of the three, my interest just isn't piqued. I'd rather watch Indy Car racing than Moto2. | ||
| Trojan |
Moto2 has closely contested racing, closely matched machines and riders and even a US rider full time (with some dodgy wild card riders too  ) What's not to like? When you first watch any series you won't know the riders. You have to start to follow the series to get to know them don't you? Go on, Give it a go, you might even like it  | ||
| Jaimec |
Back on topic: I suspect Marco Melandri will do better in WSBK than Cal Crutchlow in MotoGP... at least in the first year anyway. Cal may be faster than Ben was last year... but then EVERYONE is faster this year (except Ducati, it seems). Progress. Put Ben back on the R1 and I'm pretty sure he'd be dominating the series again. For a superbike-raised rider, he's doing DAMNED well in MotoGP... better even than the other rookies brought up through "the system." Only rookie I can think of who made a bigger impact in his first year is his future team mate Jorge Lorenzo (but he had the advantage of being a rookie on a factory bike). | ||
| Trojan |
Put Ben back on the R1 and I'm pretty sure he'd be dominating the series again. There is no evidence for that unfortunately. The R1 in WSb this year is a different animal to that raced by Spies (and Camier) last year so we'll never know. When Crutchlow gets to MotoGP we won't know if he will have the same level of equipment and backup that Spies has had either so comparisons are very difficult until you get both riders on what everyone knows is the same bike on the same track at the same time. Until then it is just conjecture. Personally I think there will be a lot of surprised people in MotoGP next year once Cal gets up to speed. You won't find a more committed rider that's for sure People seem to be judging Cal purely on this seasons results without looking into the reason for those results and his lap times when things have been right with the bike. You only have to look back 12 months to see how he dominated WSS to see how competitive he is and I'm sure he will carry that into MotoGP with him even harder. I think you are right that Spies is probably the best with a 'pure Superbike' background, but then remember he hasn't won a race yet so is still not level with Troy Bayliss on that score. Melandri hasn't ridden a Superbike yet so it is very early days on that score. I hope he does well but then I don't want to see WSB as a dumping ground for ex MotoGP riders either, so if he doesn't perform he should be out. | ||
| Jaimec |
I just remember Simoncelli beating Biaggi his first time on a Superbike... | ||
| Jaimec |
Good to see Haga back on top of the box again, even if the season is almost over. Is he finally finding his mojo again? | ||
| Trojan |
Is he finally finding his mojo again? A bit late in the day if he is unfortunately. His management are putting out all sorts of rumours and conjecture at the moment linking him to Alstare Suzuki next year, but I can't see him attracting one of the top teams unfortunately (unless Yamaha find it hard to replace JT of course!). Another ridiculous rumour I heard today (well it would be ridiculous if it wasn't very likely true!) is that perennial WSB under achiever Max Neukirchner is going to be racing in MotoGP next year on yet another Ducati 'pay as you go' team financed by a German company. While we would all like to see bigger grids in MotoGP I don't think they should fill it with average riders with big sponsors such as Max Neukirchner and Karel Abraham just to fill the grid. Whatever happened to getting promoted for having talent? Last crazy rumour of the day.......Alstare Suzuki will be running at least one MotoGP Suzuki next year (maybe even the 'factory' squad with one rider - Bautista) and may not run in WSB at all You heard it first here folks.... | ||
| Jaimec |
So now what happens to JT? | ||
| Trojan |
I was very surprised to hear about Eugene Laverty getting the WSB Yamaha ride, especially as he has never raced a Superbike before! I had always thought of him as a 250/600 rider and like most people here expected him to ride in Moto2 next year. I like Eugene a lot as a rider, but think he will struggle on the Superbike in 2011 and think Yamaha have amde a mistake in hiring two brand new riders to the series instead of keeping JT for a second year. | ||
| Jaimec |
They're probably counting on "Mighty Marco" to get up to speed quickly... | ||
| Trojan |
I think Yamaha could be left with some serious egg on their corporate faces next year in WSB at least (maybe MotoGP too ). I really can't see the logic of getting rid of JT despite his relatively poor results this year (which are more than partly due to the bike and its inability to use the current Pirelli tyres). bringing in two 250 style riders with absolutely zero Superbike experience between them is either very brave or foolhardy, so it will be interesting to see how they get on with the bike and with each other. I think JT should find himself a decent team in the WSb paddock just because he is a double WSB champion. BMW looks like a good option for him and may even suit his riding style better than the crossplane crank Yamaha. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Yamaha took a "gamble" with Spies , and they succeded , so they will do it again with Melandri , who is a relatively big name from motoGP and he is still young. It seems that there is a big connection between Yamaha's factory WSBK and motoGP factory&satellite teams , which I find great , since talented WSBK riders are given a chance to race in motoGP aboard competitive bikes and the satellite riders get upgraded to factory bikes. Toseland would be OK , I am sure . But most racing fans were expecting more from Toseland this year , since he was riding last year's championship winning bike . 2010 was not a good year for Toseland. | ||
| Trojan |
Toseland would be OK , I am sure . But most racing fans were expecting more from Toseland this year , since he was riding last year's championship winning bike . 2010 was not a good year for Toseland. Toseland has had a bad 2010 although it hasn't been widely publicised that he struggled with a badly broken hand that refused to heal for the first half of the season in addition to hving to 'redevelop' the bike after Yamaha went overboard with modification over the winter. The bike is only now starting to get back to the state it was in last year but still can't use the latest generation Pirelli tyres. I think that both Melandri and Laverty wills truggle to get the bike developed for next year we neither have any Superbike experience at all..ever. laverty did 40 laps of Cadwell Park in 2006 on a Superbike and that is the sum of both their experience in this field, although at least he knows the tracks I suppose. Coming from MotoGP to WSB isn't a guarantee of success either, as Biaggi found out. It has taken him 4 years to get to a point where he is fighting for the championship, and to do that he has had to have pretty much a bespoke bike built for him by Aprilia that is closer to MotoGP than Superbike in reality. Next year looks like being Johnny Rea's year in WSb, although Toseland on a BMW will be quite hard to beat I think | ||
| Jaimec |
Wow! Cal sure "dissed" James big time!! http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Sep/100916crut chlow.htm | ||
| Jaimec |
Here's an interesting article on the Yamaha WSBK effort. Funny... not one mention of the bike having problems with Pirelli tires (sounds like an excuse to me). It DID point out, however, that Spies' fortunes turned around when he demanded his OWN pit crew and not Yamaha's WSBK people... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Sep/100915gord .htm | ||
| Trojan |
It was pretty well documented recently adn was the main reason for Pirelli reverting back to the 'old' spec tyres. Some teams (aprilia & Ducati) found the new tyres great while the rest of the grid were singularly unimpressed with them. Worst affected were Yamaha and Suzuki but the biggest problem of all was a complete lack of consisntency between one tyre and the next apparently. There were complaints from a number of teams including Yamaha, Suzuki and BMW and the tyres were withdrawn. Yamaha also had problems making even the older spec tyres last for race distance because the extra power/torque of the 2010 R1 over last years bike was too much for the tyre and was ripping it up in 10 laps or less. They have had to back the power down to last years level just to make a tyre last race distance. Sometimes it must be easy to keep trying to develop a winning bike, but sometimes the old mantra 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' works just as well | ||
| Jaimec |
Matt, On the other hand, with the ENTIRE GRID lapping faster than Ben did last year, Yamaha had to do SOMETHING to remain competitive... | ||
| Trojan |
It does seem quite strange that the R1 pretty much dominated in quite a few championships last year (not just WSB) but has been off the pace this year in most of them. Last year it was unbeatable in British Superbike & Superstock as well as various other national championships. This year nobody can get it anywhere near the rostrum in most races. Obviously Ben Spies and Leon Camier had something to do with it, but there were other championships where 'lesser' riders did very last year but have struggled badly in 2010. Maybe the opposition (BMW in particular) have improved a lot over the winter or maybe the R1 has been altered too much form last year BSB this year is a battle between Honda and Suzuki, whereas last year they were both pretty comprehensively thrashed by Yamaha. | ||
| Blake |
The R1 continues to run at the front in American Superbike. Last year in WSBK, if not for Ben Spies, Yamaha had nothing. | ||
| Trojan |
Last year in WSBK, if not for Ben Spies, Yamaha had nothing. There were only 2 factory Yamahas in WSB last year (and no private teams running the R1). Ben Spies won and Tom Sykes was 6th despite missing races due to injury. Not too bad really... In BSB Leon Camier pretty much wiped the floor with the whole field except for his teammate on another R1. All Japan Superbike champion 2009.....Katsuyuki Nakasuga (Yamaha R1) Other national championships tend to run different rules to WSB but... I'm pretty sure they also won the German and French Superbike championships in 2009 but can't be 100% sure. This year (2010) they are unlikely to win any major championships worldwide with the R1, so that just shows how much the others have caught up. Ben Spies was of course very good, but Yamaha won titles elsewhere without him last year.This year they are struggling right across the board. | ||
| Blake |
The R1 continues to run at the front in American Superbike. | ||
| Jaimec |
Wow, just saw an interesting little piece of speculation: Toseland to BMW for 2011?? | ||
| Jaimec |
It is entirely possible this weekend we'll have an Italian World Champion riding an Italian motorcycle in an Italian round. I was never much of a Biaggi fan, but I'm pulling for him this weekend. Go MAX!! | ||
| Jaimec |
Sykes on the pole?! I didn't see THAT coming! What happened to all the Ducatis that were dominating yesterday's practice sessions? And Max has a mountain to climb if he's to clinch tomorrow... | ||
| Amafan |
Rain happened ! Sykes is a good rain rider. Baiggi is on the 2nd row,how is that a mountain to climb ? |
