| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketsprink |
Well, unless you race, which you may well, but I race and had a fellow racer go down in front of me a few years ago. I'm nowhere near the skill level of the moto2 guys nor as fast. Thank god he slide away from my bike cause we were exiting a corner and there was no way I could have avoided him. Instead I hit his bike, destroying the front end of his bike and launching myself over my handlebars. It all happens so damn fast, I'm pretty sure there was nothing they could do. Are you implying they didn't try and avoid him? It's a shame what has happened the last 2 race weekends, but it's part of racing. You go out to win not to kill or cripple anyone. I'm sure everyone involved will be scarred by this for the rest of their lives. It sad, but as we have seen, it happens. | ||
| Trojan |
It isn't very ofetn that a forum post makes me 'proper' angry, but I'm afraid Vagelis your post above is very much out of order. De Angelis and Redding were so close to Tomozawa that they had no escape route and no way to avoid the fallen rider. If you had track/race experience you would know that a riders view and focus are a long way ahead of their front wheel so they probably didn't even see Shya until it was too late to react. To suggest that either Scott Redding or Alex De Angelis deliberately failed to take avoiding action is not only ridiculous but very insulting to both riders and to the family of Shoya Tomizawa. Both riders could have been seriously injured or killed as well in this incident, and both have to live with the sad reality of being involved in a fatal accident already despite it not being their fault, but a very sad racing incident. Scott Redding is apparently taking it very badly at the moment and is finding it hard to come to terms with. Scott is just 17 years old and Shoya was just 19 so it is a very hard blow to all concerned. | ||
| Gaesati |
Moto 2 makes great racing but it seems every race there is a dramatic/deadly incident involving multiple bikes and riders. Why is this happening ? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Vagelis46 By your comments I assume you have never raced, or if you have you never had a rider go down in front of you (I have).... To suggest these two riders would essentially commit the eqivalent of manslaughter, the real shame is on you... | ||
| Trojan |
Moto 2 makes great racing but it seems every race there is a dramatic/deadly incident involving multiple bikes and riders. Why is this happening ? 40 bikes, narrow track, competitive riders = lots of crashes. This crash was unusual compared to the 'normal' Moto2 mayhem though as it wasn't on the first lap and didn't involve riders 'pushing' each other off track like it usually does in the early laps and at relatively low speed. The Moto2 crash at turn 2 Indianapolis was the norm you get to expect now from the class, yet nobody was seriously injured, no bikes were on the race track and yet red flagged the race straight away. This weekend's crash happened mid race and was caused purely by a mistake from Tomizawa getting his rear wheel off line and highsiding himself directly in the path of two closely following riders at 140mph+ On this occasion there were clearly two injured riders semi conscious/unconcious at the very edge of the fastest section of the track plus large pieces of debris on the racing line itself, yet they decided not to red flag the race for some obscure and inexcusable reason. Both Redding and Tomizawa were crudely bundled onto stretchers without even a cursory examination just to get them off the track. The haste of the marshalls was made even more obscene by the sight of them dropping Tomizawa half way across the gravel trap!! The Italian authorities have opened an inquest into the death and it seems as if there may be charged brought against 'unknown persons' for manslaughter. The unknown persons are widely rumoured to be the corner workers/medical staff on scene and maybe even the organsiers/Dorna. The same thing happened when Ayrton Senna was killed at Imola a few years back and the courts charged the Williams F1 team with manslughter then. From twowheelsblog.com 'Italian prosecuter Paolo Giovagnoli of Rimini has opened in inquest into the death of Moto2 rider Shoya Tomizawa during Sunday’s race at Misano. The prosecuter is considering formulating a charge of manslaughter against persons unkown in the tragic death of the Japanese rider. Tomizawa’s body underwent an external examination today and will undergo a full autopsy to determine if the marshalls stumbling in the gravel and dropping the stretcher with Tomizawa’s body on it, could have had any consequences in his death. ' | ||
| Simond |
Thanks to those above who have responded to Vagelis' remarks. I tried several times to reply but it just degenerated into abuse which I decided not to post. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"It isn't very ofetn that a forum post makes me 'proper' angry, but I'm afraid Vagelis your post above is very much out of order." So you got angry ?? Its fine by me . Get as angry as you want , It will never get Tomizawa back . Your fellow Brit took it badly that after not trying to brake , he hit Tomizawa to the head ??? I am glad he did . He killed him. Maybe , just maybe if people start getting pissed of at riders that are not giving a SH*T for other's racers lives , and they just see them as enemies that they want to "kill" in order to win , then maybe we will never see another incident like this . Instead of saying "it's OK boy , that is racing" , we should rise a voice of complaining !! How many times have DeAngelis have been accused of not giving a sh*t for other riders ?? How many of you remember when he hit Pedrosa's wounded leg in Qatar 1-2 years ago , because he did not want to "loose a 10th" and Pedrosa was slowing down in his stupid head?? How many of you have watched the video with Tomizawa?? I watched it 100 times . Especially Redding had a opportunity to brake , he wasn't that close. He did not brake , he did not even close the gas !!! It seems that Trojan , Rocketsprink , Paint_Shaker and Simond , with their vast understanding of racing , as they have declared in this forum , see things differently . I do not !! Of course on the internet anyone can claim that he has the racing experience of Loris Capirossi. Why we have not seen accidents like this in motoGP (thank God)?? Because the riders are more skilled , more matured and they have greater respect for each other ! | ||
| Jaimec |
17 bikes on the grid vs. 40. Do the math. Sorry, Vagelis. On this (like most of your anti-Rossi rants) you are WAAAAAAAY off base. | ||
| Trojan |
I've tried to think of a polite and reasonable response to your post Vagelis, but I can't. Suffice to say you are very very wrong. Why we have not seen accidents like this in motoGP (thank God)?? Because the riders are more skilled , more matured and they have greater respect for each other ! Pure luck is the only reason we haven't seen accidents like this more often (and the fact that MotoGP has far less iders so they are less close together). If you honestly think that rider skill has anything to do with avoiding accidents like this then you are very mistaken indeed. No racer in the world will deliberately run over another rider. period. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
vag-less, you sound like a complete maniac, with moron sprinkles. You really need to find a different sport to follow. You watching racing is like a retard at the zoo, you like what you see, but you don't understand it. | ||
| Davegess |
Vagelis46 you are absolutely and completely wrong. That is a sickening accident to watch but there is not a thing the riders could do. No one has reactions fast enough to do anything. The other two riders are, I am sure, sick about it. I have know a few top level MC racers and Trojan is correct; no rider would do anything like this on purpose. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"vag-less, you sound like a complete maniac, with moron sprinkles. You really need to find a different sport to follow. You watching racing is like a retard at the zoo, you like what you see, but you don't understand it." Badlions-depression , thank you for the great advice . Such a moto racing guru as yourself with huge experience, always gives on spot and usefull advice to the rest of us . The way you loose no time to dis-respect me , shows a "little" man in every way. Just to finish this discussion from my part , and regardless of this depressing incident , I think that it is about time that reckless riding gets penalised . If a rider gets banned for a couple of rounds , for reckless riding , maybe we see less first corner incidents , and less crashes in general . American fans got pissed off when Pedrosa took Hayden out . What about Hayden taking Capirossi out in Misano last week ?? For what ?? Was Hayden trying to prove he can run at the front aboard his GP10 ?? Not a chance !!! So why was he willing to gamble his race just to have a good start , and after an unforced error destroy Capirossi's home race in front of his family ?? If he got banned for 2 races , what would be the chances of this happening again ?? DeAngelis did the same thing to Hayden last year at Misano , and Lorenzo did this to Hayden at Philip Island last year . As long as these incidents go on with no punishment , they will never stop. Racers will always take their chances , even if it means destroying someone else's race , or in the worst scenario , killing someone. Nothing more to say for this........ | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Vag you're insane to think racers are out kill or hurt other riders. It doesn't take a racing guru or even fan to see that. | ||
| Trojan |
There has been some reckless riding in MotoGP in the past, but that description certainly does not apply to the Tomizawa incident in any shape or form. When two racers are both aiming for the same piece of tarmac at speed there are bound to be collsions and accidents in motorcycle racing. As Steve Parish is fond of saying, this ain't a knitting competiton! However there is a form of reprimand for reckless riding just as there is in other forms of motorsport. The FIM officials and clerk of the courswe can impose sanctions on riders if they think they have been reckless in their actions. The accidents between Pedrosa/Hayden, De Angelis/Hayden and Hayden/Capirossi were just unfortunate racing incidents that happen from time to time simply because they are racing for ther same piece of track at the same time. There have been 'accidents' in the past where riders have deliberately ran opponents off the track such as Capirossi did with harada in order to clinch the 250 crown a few years ago, and that is an entirely different matter and should have been stamped on straight away. None of the actions of De Angelis or Scott Redding last weekend could be considered reckless, and they were just unfortunate enough to be caught up in Tomizawa's accident (Tomizawa caused the accident by running off track remember) and compounding the consequences rather than having any input into the cause of it. Lastly, I have read countless expressions of grief and hundreds of opinions online relating to this accident, from peopple who were there, to racers such as Rossi right down to armchair viewers. Not one has suggested that Redding or De Angelis are in any way to blame for this tragic event except you. Doesn't that tell you something? Maybe you should save your vitriol and blame for the marshalls that hastily bundled Scott Redding onto a stretcher like a rag doll (even though initial diagnosis was a broken pelvis!) or the ones that dropped the stretcher carrying Tomizawa off track! Perhaps an e-mail to Dorna asking why the race wasn't stopped immediately when it was immediately obvious that this was an extremely serious accident and not just a run of the mill Moto2 off track excursion. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Did the Moto2 race in question ever air on Speed or was it canceled due to the tragedy? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
No it didn't. I have my dvr set to record all moto gp races. Everything was recorded but moto2. | ||
| Davegess |
It was shown, I watched a couple of days later on my DVR. Very disturbing to see. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I don't claim to have a "vast understanding of racing"... I do claim to have first hand knowledge of what it is like in a race for a rider to go down right in front of me. What is your race experience Vagelis? (Message edited by Paint shaker on September 10, 2010) | ||
| Patrickmitchell |
Speed did air the Moto2 race; it is on my DVR now. I run the occasional club race, and a ton of track days. No one runs over another rider on purpose. In my experience, guys crash and take bigger risks avoiding down riders, often increasing their own chance of injury. Racing is a dangerous sport. If you don't understand the risks, or are unwilling to live with the consequences; don't even start. Tracks are better now than they have ever been. That said, you will never eliminate this kind of accident. It is sad when it happens, but not criminal. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
hmmmm, my dvr must have realized I didn't wanna see it. | ||
| Babyhuey |
"What is your race experience Vagelis?" 7 days and no response, all that crap running from your mouth and no response! it appears to me that you have no racing experience, at 150 mph the riders were already looking thru the next turn. your not watching the guy right in front of you, you race the track and run you lines, thats a double apex turn! RETARD! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I said this discussion , from my part is over. Got it ??? Bady-sh*thead , your posts on this thread are ZERO , yet you show your "nice" character by joining just to make a useless and offensive comment. You enjoy this, don't you ?? What a guy !!! I am sure you have the greatest racing experience in the world , and on the other hand I have never been on a racetrack to know the attitude of some wreckless riders !! F&CKHEAD !!! | ||
| Jaimec |
Getting back on topic: Looks like Noriyuki Haga isn't the ONLY Ducati Factory rider waking up at the end of the season (where it doesn't really count anymore). Stoner just took his first pole position since the first race of the season. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Ducati tried some new things , a shorter swingarm and an extra "brace" for the frame. Did it work ?? I looks so , but it is too early to say. Maybe it is just this track. Good to see Stoner and Hayden being so fast , both of them on the same weekend. Once again , Rossi is the 3rd Yamaha. | ||
| Jaimec |
Casey is also using the forks from 2009. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Great race. Great for Nicky Hayden. That was his best race in motoGP. !! Ducati was not any faster than Yamaha down the straights. And Dovi's Honda was just slightly faster than Spies' M1. Interesting... | ||
| Trojan |
Aside from Hayden's do or die overtake on the last lap, this must qualify as THE MOST BORING GP EVER!!!!! Jeez, I've seen F1 races with more drama and excitiment than the Aragon race produced and I really hope that the new rules in 2012 will do something to stop this slide into abject dullness that MotoGP is suffering from. It seems the only battle worth watching (other than the Hayden/Lorenzo fight) was for 10th-14th place!! I've watched GP motorcycle racing avidly for 40 years and this year is the first time that I have been tempted to switch off mid race  Moto2 wasn't much more exiting either this week, so maybe the high speed nature of the circuit design should take a little responsibility for the poor spectacle for viewers. never mind, I'm sure they can find a few more Spanish tracks to fill the calendar with in future. TBH I can't wait for this season to finish and get started on the 2011 season already. | ||
| Jaimec |
Oh come on... did you miss the fight between Dovi and Spies?? That was fascinating. As Ben said, it's a shame Dovi pushed it just a BIT too far and crashed out but he had to do something. Dovi had the faster bike, but Ben was riding like a mad man. | ||
| Carbonfibrebob |
+1 on the Spies/Dovi battle. Spies is an animal on the brakes! Great fun to watch! | ||
| Blake |
Mat, I can't help but get a dig in on you. Tech3 Signs Colin Edwards for 2011. So it's on in 2011! Colin vs Cal.  |
