| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
"Boring racing?" Yeah, probably, just like watching the Yankees is "Boring Baseball." Sometimes it IS nice to bask in total domination though. I disagree  Boring racing does nothing to promote bike racing and the TV viewing figures since Rossi was injured have dropped like a stone in most countries. This last GP was just a carbon copy of the lat 2 and was pretty dismal to watch. Lorenzo is of course uber-talented and could probably beat the rest of them riding Colin Edwards bike at the moment, but it would be nice to see someone make a fight of it at least! The only thing that I agree with moaning Stoner about is that there really needs to be at least 22 bikes on teh grid next year or the class is in danger of disappearing altogether. Rossi moving to Ducati (and the inevitable shuffle of other riders that would entail)would be a dream for the organisers, publicists and spectators alike, and would at least inject a bit of excitiment into what has become the F1 of bike racing recently It would also appear that the move to Ducati would include a clause to allow Rossi an entry into F1 with Ferrari (all paid for by Marlboro of course) if the opportunity arose for them to run a third car in future. Not that would get me to watch F1 again  The points made about circuit knowledge (or lack of) for Spies isn't actually a big deal. You have to remember that these guys only race at each track once a year, so never build up the kind of local knowledge that rider innational championships accrue by riding at the same tracks over and over again during the season. The only advantage for would sometimes be for local riders at their home GP, but even that isn't necessarily the case (Bradley Smith had never raced at Donington before entering GP racing despit it being his 'home' track). The biggest difference is to the teams rather than the riders, and provided theyhave setup data from a track from previous years they will always have a starting point to work from in set up terms. Riders can learn tracks very quickly compared to engineers and data technicians! (Message edited by trojan on July 05, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
Speaking of total domination... just read that with Lorenzo's win yesterday, Yamaha has won more races in the Four Stroke era than ANY other manufacturer. This has to be a bitter pill for Honda, because aren't they the ones who pushed for four strokes in the first place? Of course, Honda is also the manufacturer that decided the only rider capable of beating Valentino Rossi is Dani Pedrosa... | ||
| Trojan |
Honda is also the manufacturer that decided the only rider capable of beating Valentino Rossi is Dani Pedrosa... Also the manufacturer who decided that they didn't need the services of Mr Rossi any longer, as the rider is only a small part of the team and not as important as the engineers! (according to Honda) Honda are looking increasingly embarressed so I fully expect to see the rumoured 3 bike factory team materialise from them next year (Pedrosa/Dovi/Stoner) in a last ditch effort to win an 800cc title (that they pushed for originally remember!). I don't think they'll do it though (Message edited by trojan on July 05, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
Honda had the right country, just the wrong rider. The extra year in the 250 class honed Jorge into a formidable weapon. I hope when Vale comes back he gets back up to speed quickly. Jorge is making the rest of the field look silly. | ||
| Amafan |
To all you guys that think the bike Ben Spies is riding is just as good as the Fiat Yamaha bikes', you need to watch this video . http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8094268 | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Lorenzo is winning because he rides the best bike. | ||
| Trojan |
Lorenzo is winning because he rides the best bike. Nothing to do with being the fastest/best/in form rider then? if it was just the bike then Yoshikawa (or whatever his name is) would not have finished plum last on the same bike would he? Stoner was interviewed after the race and said that Lorenzo is winning because of 'consistency', which is rubbish. What he should have said was the Lorenzo is consistently faster than everyone else. Being consistent could mean finishing last every week. Lorenzo is winning because he is the best rider (at the moment) on the best bike and with the best overall package (team/rider/bike together). If Lorenzo was riding Spies '2009' bike then he would probably still be winning to be honest. By the way, the Tech 3 bikes may be 2009 chassis but they have the same 2010 engine as the Fiat bikes started the season with. They may not have had any upgrades since the season started but they certainly got new engines over the winter to bring them into line with the new engine life rules. There wasn't a lot wrong with the 2009 Yamaha chassis either (it was used by Rossi and Lorenzo to get first and second place in the riders championship and win the manufacturers title after all). | ||
| Jaimec |
Lorenzo has much greater corner speed than almost anyone else on the track at the moment. He has the same spec engine as Colin and Ben, and both of them have complained of their straight line speed. From watching the races, Jorge is really good at making himself really "wide" and at blocking following riders in the straights, then using his superior cornering speed to squirt away in the tight sections. It ain't the bike... it's the rider. Vale proved that when he jumped to Yamaha. Even after he won the title that first year for Yamaha, the journalists still said the Honda RC211V was the superior bike after riding all of the bikes back-to-back. Since the 800cc era, though, it's been pretty much universally accepted that the M1 is the most complete package on the grid. This has been borne out by the number of times Yamaha has won the "Manufacturer's Title" despite having fewer bikes on the grid than anyone but Suzuki (or the defunct Kawasaki team). | ||
| Amafan |
Spies said the Tech 3 bikes are having the same problem as the Fiat bikes had a couple years ago (2008),and they have not gotten any new parts from Yamaha since the start of the (2009)season . How do you know the Fiat team,and the Tech 3 team, have the same spec engine ? Spies and Edwards have been in the draft of faster bikes in the races,so the top Speed of the Tech 3 bikes are even worse then the top Speed charts indicates . Lorenzo has been leading most of the races', so he is not getting any drafting help,and in most races his top Speed is faster then the Tech 3 bikes . (Message edited by amafan on July 06, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
Peter: They ALL have new engines, because of the new rules Dorna put in place. Economics of scale: It is cheaper for Yamaha to produce a single spec engine for all four of their riders than to produce one spec for Fiat, and one spec for Tech3. Those engines are also SEALED, so the only new parts Fiat might have over Tech3 would be electronics or suspension-related. Bear in mind that Jorge is also physically SMALLER than either Colin or Ben, so any apparent acceleration advantage would come from that, and not from the engine (though Jorge is still "normal sized," and not a pee wee like a certain other Spaniard in the series). | ||
| Trojan |
How do you know the Fiat team,and the Tech 3 team, have the same spec engine ? Spies and Edwards have been in the draft of faster bikes in the races,so the top Speed of the Tech 3 bikes are even worse then the top Speed charts indicates . Lorenzo has been leading most of the races', so he is not getting any drafting help,and in most races his top Speed is faster then the Tech 3 bikes . As Jaimec has already said, all the GP teams got new engines this year because of the new engine life rules. In fact the Tech 3 team also got new engines at the Valencia tests last year (Edwards complained about the bikes felling 'dead' after that test). Neil Spalding (Eurosport Tech guy and MotoGP tech expert)has looked very closely and spoken at length to both Yamaha crews during the season and I spoke to him about this just last week. He says that the Tech 3 team basically have a 2009 chassis with a 2010 engine package. There are some differences such as exhaust mufflers (due to different sponsor arrangements) but you can bet that they both flow exactly the same Top speeds are deceiving and shouldn't be used to compare bike specs too much. Speed traps are sometimes placed at the end of straights (at Silverstone it was actually into the braking area for some riders) so if a rider brakes early or slows otherwise then their top speed will read correspondingly lower. However it is apparent that the slowest people through the speed traps almost all year have been the factory Yamaha pair of Rossi & Lorenzo, followed by the other Yamaha riders. Straight line speed doesn't make a GP winning bike though and you will se that Barbera on teh Satellite Ducati is almost always one of the fastest in a straight line but never in the top ten when the chequered flag drops. The Yamaha is the best all round package because they have for years concentrated on cornering and handling rather than top speed and outright lap times. The 2009 Yamaha chassis is probably better than almost any other bike on the GP grid right now and the 2010 chasis is just a step up from that. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
For sure Lorenzo is great, propably the best at the moment. He also rides the best bike. I still think that Stoner is the fastest rider with the coolest riding style, but he rides the worst bike. Ducati has lost the power advantage, so it has no strong point. Spies is doing great for a rookie that has a superbike background. I am looking forward to the races in the USA. He might win a race. For sure , Rossi's absence is noticable. The races are boring at the moment because it is always the same. We need a change. We need to see different riders at different teams next year. That will bring more enthusiasm and interest to the races | ||
| Trojan |
According to certain sources (twowheelsblog.com) Rossi has stated that he will return for the German GP at Sachsenring in just 9 days time! If this is true thenit is a remarkable recovery. Especially as the doctors were advising a 4-6 month lay off for Vale! I'm sure he won't be competitive as he is still walking with crutches and hasn't ridden a bike until today, but just his presence should ensure a healthy audience again. Apparently there were half empty grandstands in Spain last weekend, which is almost unheard of in the modern GP era! I agree with you though, we need a lot more new riders and more teams next year. Just moving the top 3-4 riders around won't make the series exciting for very long so we need more bikes and more riders in the series. There are also plenty of riders in MotoGP that no longer deserve to be there and should move on unfortunately. | ||
| Jaimec |
I read a rumor that Rossi will be testing with an R1 tomorrow... At least it's not an 1198, eh?  UPDATE: It's official! Let's see what he says afterwards. (Message edited by jaimec on July 06, 2010) (Message edited by jaimec on July 06, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
Ben Spies, in interviews, has commented that he still has the "Superbike Habit" of late-braking and that he needs to get into the habit of carrying more corner speed as the 800's just don't have the down low grunt of the superbikes to squirt from corner to corner. It's one of the reasons, though, that his terminal speeds "appear" higher than the other Yamaha riders; especially if, as you say, the speeds are recorded in the braking zones. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that even after all these years in MotoGP that Colin is essentially doing the same. | ||
| Azxb9r |
At least it's not an 1198, eh? During the race, one of the announcers said that Rossis team wants to cut his salary so they can afford to keep Lorenzo. Rossi is unhappy with this, and will be moving to Ducati next year. This brings about a couple of interesting questions. How competitive will the Ducati be with Rossi on board? How much better will the bike get with Rossi helping out with development? Since Fiats involvement with sponsoring the Fiat Yamaha team is based on Rossi, will they pull their sponsorship when Rossi leaves? Who will they get to replace Fiat as a major sponsor, and will they still be as competitive if they have to work with a smaller budget? Isnt it a little early for silly season to start? | ||
| Crusty |
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul ts/MotoGP/2010/June/jun2910-World-Exclusive-Rossi- to-Ducati/ | ||
| Trojan |
How competitive will the Ducati be with Rossi on board? VERY! Rossi isn't going to move to Ducati without assurances on competitiveness and development. He is also the best in the world so it only has to be semi competitive for him to make it win. How much better will the bike get with Rossi helping out with development? MUCH! Rossi will take his whole crew with him including Jerry Burgess, so you can be pretyy sure that they will tailor the bike to Rossi over the winter. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the first race again like he did with Yamaha (remeber the Ducati is already far more competitive than the Yamaha was when Rossi signed for them). Who will they get to replace Fiat as a major sponsor, and will they still be as competitive if they have to work with a smaller budget? Rumour has it that the factory Yamaha team will be 'Petronas Yamaha' next year instead of Fiat. I doubt if their budget will be affected as almost all of the money now comes direct from Yamaha. Ducati are the only top team that has a sponsor that picks up the entire racing budget, and hence can afford Rossi. Isnt it a little early for silly season to start? The silly season started last year for this round of contract talks, so has been going for a while now already | ||
| Simond |
I thought that JB expressed some reluctance to move to Ducati when these discussions were ongoing during the close season. I assume that he has changed his mind because I can't imagine Rossi wanting to go to Ducati without him. | ||
| Jaimec |
It's funny, but EVERY story on the net declaring Rossi is going to Ducati quotes the SAME MCN article linked above. Since MCN has been wrong in the past, I'll wait until I read it on the official MotoGP site, or on Vale's personal website and not before. | ||
| Trojan |
I thought that JB expressed some reluctance to move to Ducati when these discussions were ongoing during the close season. I assume that he has changed his mind because I can't imagine Rossi wanting to go to Ducati without him. Latest from MCN is that Lin Jarvis (Yamaha team boss) expects the whole 'Rossi garage' to defect to Ducati with Rossi if/when he goes, including Burgess. I think it would be pretty inconceivable for Rossi to move without the help and support of his crew chief so would take it as read that Burgess will move with him. | ||
| 46champ |
If Rossi goes to Ducati I'll lay money that Nicky stays at Ducati. | ||
| Jaimec |
I thought Nicky was already signed for Ducati in 2011?? Nicky and Vale have been team mates before. I also thought Vale had a problem with tobacco sponsorship (despite being sponsored by Gauloises and Camel in the past)? | ||
| Trojan |
I thought Nicky was already signed for Ducati in 2011?? Nicky and Vale have been team mates before. Ducati have an 'option' on Hayden for 2011 and until a few weeks ago it was pretty much certain that he would be signed for 2011. However since the rumours of Rossis defection have strengthened I haven't heard anything about Hayden and Ducati for next year. maybe they are waiting to see if Rossi objects to having Nicky as a team mate (which I doubt he would)? I also thought Vale had a problem with tobacco sponsorship (despite being sponsored by Gauloises and Camel in the past)? He always used to say this before the Camel/Gualoises deals were done of course. Now he doesn't say anything one way or the other regarding where sponsor money comes from. With his wage demands he probably doesn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and would take up 20 Marlboro lites a day if it meant getting $20 million out of Philip Morris! I think the only question left now is what colours will the 2011 Ducati number 46 run in? Red with a hint of yellow? By the way, Rossi is on track at Misano this afternoon on a WSB spec R1 | ||
| Jaimec |
And I called Lorenzo a "machine:" http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Jul/100707ross iupdate.htm | ||
| Azxb9r |
He is also the best in the world so it only has to be semi competitive for him to make it win. I agree, but it makes for interesting speculation. I think it would be fun watching Rossi on the "unrideable" Ducati. I dont know what his mind set is on the subject, but he does not have anything more to prove at Yamaha. Maybe a jump to a different brand would be more rewarding for him. | ||
| Trojan |
To put Rossis test yesterday into perspective, his best time of 1'38".20 would have been good enough to score points in 15th place at this years WSB race at Misano and to qualify inside the top 20. Considering he was just testing his leg and shoulder and not trying to set a time that is incredibly quick and shows what a racer he is (It was also on a WSB bike unknown to him and fitted with MotoGP Bridgestone tyres instead of the normal Pirelli WSB tyres the bike is set up for). Maybe he should go and give Biaggi a shake up in WSB instead of moving to Ducati in MotoGP It would be great to see him back at the Sachsenring but I really do think it is too soon and he has nothing to prove by coming back early and risking further injury. | ||
| Amafan |
Trojan, you are wrong,Rossi's unofficial best time 1:38.2 that was set on MotoGP Bridgestone tyres',would have put him pretty much last of all the WSBK riders pior to Superpole. By the way how would he have finished 15th in the race, since he did not do a race distance run, and only his best lap in his 1st run 1:41.0,and his best lap in his 2nd run 1:38.2, were posted . He also did his 2nd run late in the evening ,when the track temp was at it's lowest temp,not at noon or at 3.30 pm the time WSBK races start. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=40972 By the way what Rossi did with a broken legg was impressive, but just not as spectacular as what his fanboys are putting out there . | ||
| Svh |
I for one am not a Rossi fan and I think it is f'ing amazing he was out on a bike this soon with the type of break he had. | ||
| Jaimec |
Did you see the photos and videos? The guy can barely WALK, yet he was riding an unfamiliar motorcycle faster than most of us here could ever dream! I don't know about the rest of you, but I have two good legs and I have no pretension of thinking I could've stayed with him on the track, even riding a bike I know inside and out. |
