| Author | Message | ||
     Jammin_joules |
http://www.buell.com/en_us/racing/racing-news/deta il.asp?news_id=1507  I wonder what took him so long. | ||
| Manxboy |
Brilliant news!!!! | ||
| Stormy |
It's Up!!!! | ||
| 186bigtwin |
Hope it works for Mr.Buell.......... | ||
| Slypiranna |
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| Rde48 |
What a very good job of getting the important info up. With all of those dates listed it is going to be a very exciting next month and year in racing. It looks like Erik and the elves have hit the ground running for sure!! Best Wishes Erik Buell Racing!!! | ||
| Garrett2 |
what info are you guys seeing? what dates? i went to erikbuellracing.com and to buell.com and saw nothing really | ||
| Court |
See if this helps . . . here are a couple of the pages.     | ||
| Mutation_racer |
WOW is all i can say. I wish erik and all who work with him the best of luck. | ||
| 186bigtwin |
I'd like to know more about the 1190cc Euro spec version. Wonder if it has a small stroker crank? I don't think there is much room for an overbore...... | ||
| Fast2win |
More importantly were can you race it.I can only imagine the outrage if wsbk lets it run. They did run 2010 1125r off the production line. | ||
| Diablo1 |
More importantly were can you race it.I can only imagine the outrage if wsbk lets it run. They did run 2010 1125r off the production line. The WSBK don't allow for changes in the bore and stroke from the homologated production bike. If Buell decides to produce 2000 production bikes of ANY displacement or bore and stroke combo up to 1200cc in 2010, then they are allowed to race it in WSBK in 2010. Or are you saying WSBK should change their rules just for Buell's sake?} | ||
| Fast2win |
Would that give it an unfair advantage, even though it's within the 1200cc limit. Were getting back to the letter of the rules vs. the spirit of the rules. They're all running different rods cranks and pistons anyway. Regardless if their is no tehn. advantage I see nothing wrong with any santioning body allowing changes. They seem to think they can race it in UK somewhere or they wouldn't build it | ||
| Diablo1 |
Would that give it an unfair advantage, even though it's within the 1200cc limit. Were getting back to the letter of the rules vs. the spirit of the rules. They're all running different rods cranks and pistons anyway. Yes, that would be giving one manufacturer an unfair advantage. The rules don't allow bore/stroke changes to prevent an arms race in technology and rising costs. What if only Yamaha were allowed to build a special short stroke, big bore version of the R1, and they only built four of them for their race team? Would that be fair to the other manufacturers who have to race homologated production bikes? I think you're confused about the spirit of the rules thing. Rules should be clear, straightforward, easily understood. There is no interpretation of "intent of rules". This is all a moot point anyway. I would be amazed if EBR has the money to fund a WSBK team. Maybe he can find some deep pocket sponsor, but in this economy, that's a tough proposition.} | ||
| Buell2001b |
hey guys , can someone verify this. its says the euro 1125 is a 1190 with 185 rear wheel horse power. if that is true, does that mean the same engine in the 1125R could produce 185 HP. that is insane!! freaking awesome | ||
| Fast2win |
The difference would be that EBR would have the parts available for everyone. And the cost thing not valid. It wouldn't cost any more than the expensive race parts their already using. From a article I found Ducati not only created a stir in the public world with the release of the 1098, but also in the racing world, specifically the World Superbike (WSBK). To make racing even, WSBK allows concessions to motorcycles of different cylinder amounts. The fewer the cylinders, the more concessions. Ducati with its V-twin design (2 cylinders) was able to utilize many of these concessions compared to its inline-4 competitors. Ducati argued that the current engine design was end-of-life and it would be too expensive to keep its current bikes competitive. Therefore it released the 1098. The problem was, at the time, WSBK rules limited V-twins to 1000cc so effectively Ducati did not have a guarantee that it could race its 1098 in the premier class. Before it released the 1098, Ducati lobbied the WSBK to update the rules to accommodate its new bike. Other bike manufacturers were not happy about racing a bike with a larger engine, especially when that bike belonged to Ducati, which was dominating the WSBK. For the 2007 racing year, only the Buildbase race team of SBK could race the 1098. Finally in June 2007, WSBK announced that 1200cc engines would be allowed to compete, effectively legitimizing the Ducati 1098. Ducati race fans around the world are excited at finally seeing this potent race bike prove its merit with multi-WSBK champion Troy Bayliss So lobbing FIM is possible. Probably not going to happen but it's been done before. | ||
| Blake |
"The WSBK don't allow for changes in the bore and stroke from the homologated production bike." Then please explain the 1200cc "1098R" that was allowed to race in WSBK. | ||
| Blake |
"Yes, that would be giving one manufacturer an unfair advantage." Baloney! It would be putting another competitive racing machine in the field, one that was simply afforded a very simple accommodation to allow it to develop a competitive racing engine package. Racing authorities allow special concessions to specific manufacturers all the time to help maintain the best possible interest for the audience and to maintain parity among all competing brands. | ||
| 186bigtwin |
It would make little difference if they did allow Buells the extra displacement. The engine (1190cc) would need development to be competitive. Also about the IL4's: the notion of them building larger bore shorter stroke engines really isn't feesible. If the bore to stroke ratio becomes any bigger it leads to a multitude of problems for a very small increase in power.... | ||
| Diablo1 |
Then please explain the 1200cc "1098R" that was allowed to race in WSBK. That's easy. They homologated the 1098R, and built 1000 of 'em before the end of 2009. That engine started out as 1098cc, but with bore/stroke changes and other changes became the 1098R. They didn't homologate the standard 1098 for racing, but the 1098R. Yes, it is 1200cc, but they key is they made 1000 of 'em.}} | ||
| Diablo1 |
It would make little difference if they did allow Buells the extra displacement. The engine (1190cc) would need development to be competitive. Also about the IL4's: the notion of them building larger bore shorter stroke engines really isn't feesible. If the bore to stroke ratio becomes any bigger it leads to a multitude of problems for a very small increase in power.... The old rules in WSBK had a limit on bore/stroke ratio based on number of cylinders. Aprilia designed their engine based on the old rule that was in place. The bore/stroke rule changed when the twins (Ducati) were allowed 1200cc. BMW took advantage of the new rule and their engine is more oversquare than Aprilia's. They did it for more revs and top end power. Whether they can use that power, remains to be seen.}} | ||
| Fast2win |
WHAT? I have never heard of that. Bore/stroke ratio rule. You could only not change the bore or stroke. No mention of ratio's that were not allowed. BMW built their short stroke ratio because they believe it to be an advantage, not because of any rule change. | ||
| Diablo1 |
WHAT? I have never heard of that. Bore/stroke ratio rule. You could only not change the bore or stroke. No mention of ratio's that were not allowed. BMW built their short stroke ratio because they believe it to be an advantage, not because of any rule change. You might not have heard of it, but it's true. The bore/stroke limit for 4 cylinders used to be 1.50. And that's why Aprilia chose their 78 mm bore. Here's a link explaining it. "The S1000RR has already had a couple of public on-track displays, most recently at South Africa’s Kyalami circuit as part of a WSB post-season test on December 10-12. Trackside observers say the pitch of the BMW’s exhaust note is higher than the other four-cylinder machines, giving credence to the theory that the S1000 revs higher than its competition. It’s also worth noting that the WSB rules have been revised for ’09 to remove rev-limit restrictions (14,000 rpm) for engines with a bore/stroke ratio of 1.5:1 or greater, so the RR will likely have a bigger bore and shorter stroke than its 1000cc competition, and the mysterious new valvetrain will allow for sky-high revs. "} (Message edited by Diablo1 on December 03, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>The S1000RR has already had a couple of public on-track displays So . . is it fair to say that roughly an equal number of BMW S1000RR's and MotoCycz have been produced? Both have made "on track displays". Who's on first . . . ? In your effort to create a "Buell bent the rules" argument you've now had to bend not only the rules of racing but the rules of Boolean logic. God bless the Internet. | ||
| Fast2win |
I don't see it anywhere. This is from the other post. What you may have read elsewhere isn't fact. No mystery or voodoo it's called f1 tech. http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/Codes_e t_reglements/SBK_SS_SST_Eng.pdf | ||
| Diablo1 |
I don't see it anywhere. This is from the other post. What you may have read elsewhere isn't fact. No mystery or voodoo it's called f1 tech. Of course you don't find it. You've linked the 2009 rules! Go back a year, before the Ducati was allowed 1200cc. The old rules were that if the bore/stroke ratio was 1.5 or greater, you were limited to 14,000 rpm max revs, and had to use a rev limiter provided by the organizers. So, the bikes were designed with less than 1.5 bore/stroke, so they could rev higher than 14,000 rpm and make more power......Understand?} | ||
| Diablo1 |
So . . is it fair to say that roughly an equal number of BMW S1000RR's and MotoCycz have been produced? No, they've produced far more BMWs, 300+. If you want one, go to a dealer and place your order. They'll be at the dealers in February. Is it fair to say that an equal number of 1125RRs and MotoCycz have been produced?} | ||
| Court |
>>>They'll be at the dealers in February Affirming . . . correct me that I am wrong . . that the required some "rule bending" to race? I confess I know damn near nothing about racing . . . but somehow I feel like, simply based on the disparate opinions of smart folks, that I know as much as most the crowd. I feel better. | ||
| Diablo1 |
Affirming . . . correct me that I am wrong . . that the required some "rule bending" to race? No rules bending required. I'll repeat again. In 2009, all they have to do is produce 1000 bikes total before the end December. They don't have to be all sold or even at the dealers at that time. Obviously, that they are producing 1000 bikes before the end of the year, means they will be for sale shortly. BMW wants to make money on this bike and sell a boat-load. Next year, they have to produce another 2,000 minimum. Folks here are getting confused by the FIM 2009 WSBK rulebook. What is missing are the updates before the start of the 2009 season, and the recent updates for the 2010 season. Their documentation has some problems on their website, but all of these updates have been widely reported in the motorcycling press when they were released.} | ||
| Anonymous |
Diablow, Wait, but BMW already raced a whole season?! What about the 2000 they needed to produce. Oh, that's right, BMW is such a small poor company they needed a break. So of course, that's not rule bending, just bad, bad Buell... And, I guarantee the 1125RR has more parts in common with an 1125R than Troy's bike has with the ones customers get. Go away, hater. That is what you are. Don't try to be holy. |
