| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Following the latest rumoured exits by the rest of the Japanese factories next year, and DMG running over to the west coast to try and woo them back (fat chance), it seems that the AMA/DMG saga is set to run right through the off season. It also now sems as if the top foreign riders are returning to more 'attractive' stomping grounds for 2010, and will probably be joined by at least some of the cream of the current AMA riders too. Chaz Davies has now signed to finish the year (and next year hopefully) in the World Supersport championship on board a Triumph 675, and Neil Hodgson was lurking around the garages at Croft last weekend for the British Superbike meeting hoping for a ride in 2010 in the domestic championship. When interviewed by Eurosport he said that he would love to finish his career back in the UK, which is the opposite of what he said when he was happily riding for Honda US last year. Martin Cardenas has apparently signed for Moto2 in 2010 and it would not surprise me to see Josh Herrin and maybe Jason DeSalvo follow suit. While I'm sure everyone here will be happy to see the Buells in AMA competiton next year, (and even that factory involvement must be somewhat doubtful at the moment given the factory closedown and general economic state of the industry?) surely you must want some competition? Yamaha have announced that they will no longer field a factory team in World Supersport next year, even though they and Cal Crutchlow have dominated this season, so it is entirely conceivable that they will also pull the plug on their AMA involvement. They are committed and contracted to WSB and BSB for 2010 at least, but who knows after that (the price of keeping Rossi AND Lorenzo no doubt). Now having lit the blue touch paper I will stand well back and watch the fireworks  | ||
| Davegess |
I continue to think that DMG will eventually win this war. Edmundson has twice built successful racing series from the ground up, the CSS that and the sport car series that Audi runs in. Considering that sports car racing in the US was pretty much dead when he started that was quite a feat. Matt you continue to think that the average American race fan cares a lick about Chaz who or Josh what. Sure the 150,000 peoeple who have been going to AMA racesmay care and the 2 million or so, likely alot less, who watch on TV may care but that leaves about 248 million who don't give a rip. They want entertaining racing. If DMG can draw 1% of the audience that NASCAR gets they will make a ton of money and the manufactuerswillfall all over themselvescoming back. I really don't understand why they have spent money on AMA racing these last 20 years. It cannot not be solid marketing for bike sold in the USA. 99.99% of the kids who buy 600 sport bikes couldn't name a roadracing start to save their lives. I know it is not like that in the UK or Europe but it true here. What do think is the most important number for a 600? HP and quarter mile times. Kids buy those bikes then lower them and make them longer so they go faster in a straight line. Of course only time will tell. I do know that the racing this year was much more entertaining than it has ever been. And don't repeat the good old days at Daytona deal, sure the top racers came BUT nobody bought tickets to watch.  | ||
| Crusty |
I guess they're pissed off that they can't use illegal parts freely, any more. Didn't the Japs abandon World SBK? Boy, it sure hurt that series, didn't it? But they gave Ducati a nice boost in sales. Screw 'em. They'll come back when their share of the market starts to slide, and Aprilia, KTM and Buell's share starts to increase. | ||
| Elvis |
Chaz Davies was 9th in points in Sportbike and Hodgeson was 11th in Superbike. Maybe their interest in other options has more to do with disappointment in their performance than DMG management. Cardenas would be a loss but Moto2 is an interesting opportunity so if he goes that way I wish him the best. Just about everything else is pretty much idle speculation and there's no question that riders will go other places . . . and some will come here. That's the way it works (does Yamaha's exit from World Supersport signal the doom of Supersport?) DMG had everything working against them at the beginning of this season. The feud from the year before threatened to doom the whole thing but they got it together and gave us some of the best racing the AMA has seen in the past 10 years. And even though we were in one of the worst recessions in memory, people showed up at the tracks and cheered on the riders. Going into next year, things will be much more stable than they were at the beginning of this year and the economy will be picking up. DMG has shown that they are capable of learning from their mistakes and some of the worst elements of this years racing have been changed for next year. The participating tracks are becoming more able to host races and the addition of New Jersey was a big plus with enthusiastic fans filling the stands for the finale. As for Buell, they cut two months of production. That's a 17% cut-back in a year in which most brands are seeing sales drop 50% or more. Not really the big deal Buell haters would like to make it out to be. The USA is the single largest market for sportbikes in the world and manufacturers won't ignore that market for long. If anyone sees an opening they will jump into it. If Honda, Kawasaki, KTM, BMW, Aprilia or Ducati feel that the there's an opening for an easy championship, they'll show up . . .but the fact is there won't be any easy championships because it's likely to be a deep field with many different riders and brands competing for the top spots. | ||
| Jaimec |
If the USA is the single largest market for sportbikes, why are there more choices of sportbikes in Europe?? All we seem to get here are heavyweight cruisers... | ||
| Hosephnj |
I agree with davegrass. The squids that buy sportbikes in the states don't watch racing. They just want to go fast. I hate these types of riders. Funny story get this. I was watching the daytona sportbike practice at NJMP and one of these guys that I've riden with before says to me. "I don't see the difference with how fast these guys are going and how fast we go on the street" Guys no BS I was floored and speachless. Tried telling me that he rides as fast on the street around turns. The guy doesn't even hang off the bike. God I hate squids. | ||
| 46champ |
Because we're stupid and we will buy what ever is on the show room floor. If you don't know their is something different you can't ask for it. | ||
| Trojan |
Didn't the Japs abandon World SBK? Boy, it sure hurt that series, didn't it? Yes and No. The factories 'officially' pulled out of WSB for a couple of years, but they all kept a presence in the series by supplying supposedly 'privateer' teams such as Ten Kate (Honda) Alstare (Suzuki) and Yamaha Italia. In fact the factory Yamaha team is still run by the Italian arm of Yamaha and not directly from Japan. WSB was in danger of going under at that time, but was saved by some clever marketing by the Flammini brothers and by working very closely with the teams that remained and with factories behind the scenes as well as the national promoters. In fact they shrunk the series to become a glorified European series for a while until it got back on its feet. Maybe DMG will be similar, but they don't seem to want to work with the riders, teams or factories. I know that Superbike Planet (amongst others) is pretty well despised for their views on things here, but they do represent quite a sizeable proportion of spectators/fans from what I make out and from their responses on other forums. When you get someone that influential being so 'rabid' in their condemnation of the series it can't do it any good at all. Chaz Davies was 9th in points in Sportbike and Hodgeson was 11th in Superbike. Maybe their interest in other options has more to do with disappointment in their performance than DMG management. Both were very happy to stay in the US under the previous AMA administration. Neil has suffered from injury all year so his results have reflected that unfortunately. Pre-injury he was certainly competitive (2nd at Daytona?). Chaz Davies has done a great job on what is effectively a 6 year old bike that won't even be in production by next year. They are only two of the riders critical of DMG/AMA though, and you have to also look at other major names that are not happy (Mladin, Hacking and others). You need to have some 'star' names to promote a race series and draw people in to watch, otherwise you might as well televise a local level club race (and it would probably provide good racing too). Unlike car racing, the rider is the major factor in motorcycle racing and is sometimes as much a draw as the racing itself. Just look at the 'Rossi Effect' in MotoGP. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Trojan, if u think the driver isn't the top priority for what fans follow in US auto racing you're oblivious to what auto racing is all about over here. I could give you plenty of examples, from tattoos fans get to what's displayed on fan gear (shirts and hats), but it's my bedtime. If someone doesn't enlighten you on this one, I will when I get up this afternoon. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan, if u think the driver isn't the top priority for what fans follow in US auto racing you're oblivious to what auto racing is all about over here. I'm sure the rider/driver is extremely important to the fans over there in exactly the same way it is here, but apprently not to the organisers. My argument is that DMG (and RE in particular) seems to have no respect for any of the riders and has so far treated them like sheep rather than professional sportsmen. His remarks, particularly on public forums such as the WERA forum and at rider briefings, are not what you would expect of a professional person running a national sporting championship of any description. If the stars decide to leave (and who could blame them?)who will the fans follow, whether at the track or on TV? | ||
| 46champ |
Matt if there was another domestic series there might be a problem. But since there isn't they have time to right their wrongs. The alternate series that was going to be set up by the Manufacture's organism was still borne. I don't know where the money would come from anyway being it was Honda's money in the first place. I doubt Honda's stock holders would would see the justification of that large an expenditure of capital. | ||
| Elvis |
Edmondson did come off as very arrogant at the start of this whole process and I think that has caused some wounds that haven't yet healed (and probably led to Mladin's retirement and will probably lead to Hacking going to another series . . . if he can get someone to hire him). But since Edmondson's initial oafish statements, I think we have to give at least some credit to DMG for not following through with any draconian measures some might have feared. When rain was an issue, they worked to re-arrange schedules and, for the most part, didn't race in the rain. There was some controversy regarding the condition of some tracks, but there was a clear effort from all parties to ensure the best track quality possible and that is an ongoing process. While I disagree with the way Edmondson expressed himself, I think there is an important message: When it comes to a sporting event, the participants can't run the show - there has to be a governing body that runs the show and the participants have to respect the authority of that governing body. That really gets to the heart of the conflict we've seen over the past year and that broad concept is much more important than the petty bickering that is the visable symptom of that larger problem. Until last year, the inmates were running the asylum. The top teams and top riders had a lot of power and control and they tried use that power to split off into a series that would allow them to maintain their position. . . . but I don't believe good sporting competition comes from the participants running the show. When that happens, the richest, highest profile teams will perpetuate and institute policies that allow them to continue their dominance . . . and that leads to the same people winning year after year. Participants aren't interested in what is best for the sport overall . . . they are interested in WINNING. I don't agree with everything Edmondson did . . . not by a long-shot and I certainly don't like the arrogance he has shown with the way he has said some things, but I understand and welcome his attempts to put control of the series with management where it belongs. | ||
| Jaimec |
When the participant's LIFE is on the line, then the organizers damn sure BETTER listen to them. JMHO. | ||
| Blake |
You mean like at the Isle of Man? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I suspect the factory teams are pulling out of Daytona Sportbike because "infinite resources" are no longer the clear path to victory? That is how that class was structured. (that, and I bet both factory teams and factory riders are leaving *all* series, not just this series, as they are lucky to pay the electric bill this month, much less field race teams). | ||
| Blake |
Not sure the dim view of some match up with the actions of DMG. AMA Pro Racing Communications | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I don't agree with everything that DMG has done, but the sanctioning body sets the rules and the particpants agree to abide by the rules. That being said, the sanctioning body should consider constructive critism (not whining) in certain areas such as safety. And DMG has to an extent (no more rolling starts). There was some trial and error, some changes and there will probably be some tweaking in the off season. This was the first year for DMG running this series. Though there was contraversy in regards to an 1125 competing against 600s, the racing was close and all the bikes appeared evenly matched. Chaz Davies has signed to ride a Triumph for the last 3 races in WSS. It doesn't mean he hasn left the AMA for good and KWS has posted (on the WERA boards) they anticpate him back next year. I really don't get why there is so much hate for Buell in the sportbike world, other than people tend to not like something that is different or something they don't understand. The most dumbfounding thing is a lot of the naysayers have never ridden a Buell. IMO, the I-4 cry babies need to get over themselves and the thought that an I-4 is THE only type of motor that belongs in racing. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I can guarantee you, that there is no hate for Buell in the rest of the world. Maybe only in the US, that makes no sense to me. AMA can live without Davies and Hodgson. | ||
| Backcountryme |
The AMA is kind of like Field of Dreams. If you build it they will come. This is the highest form of motorcycle road racing in America. It doesn't matter if Davies or Hodgson or Hacking leave. That opens a seat for West, Knapp, Fong, and the thousands of other up and coming riders. Look at other types of racing. Take the World of Outlaws sprint cars. They have TV coverage, national sponsors, big name drivers, and no factory teams. And I would bet that they have as many or more fans then AMA road racing. I just think that if the factory teams leave it isn't the death of the AMA. But then again I don't think that the factory teams are going anywhere. The market here is huge. They will want to keep their names out there somehow. I think that DMG has done a good job making it where a good privateer team can run with and beat a factory team. It has made for great racing and for guys that we would never have known about to take the stage. | ||
| Jaimec |
As far as I can tell, NOBODY hates Buell. They just find it questionable that the bike is run in a class with 600s and NOT the Superbike class (where I feel it belongs). To me, that is a slap in the face to Buell (your bikes aren't good enough to run with the big boys... play here instead). Nothing to do with hating Buell. | ||
| Backcountryme |
And as an add on. Great racing is the only thing that will bring in NEW fans. IF someone doesn't know who Davies is, do they care if he is not in the AMA? Face it; we don't need to keep fans watching the AMA near as much as we need to get new fans interested in it. It is like that old sales saying, you’re only as good as your next sale. Yeah, the AMA needs to try and keep people watching. But they also need to draw in new fans. And it isn't going to be the name of a rider that people don't know that will bring in new fans. It is great, close, aggressive racing that will bring them in. And yes racing is a show. It is entertainment. To those of us involved in racing it feels like more. But to everyone else in the world it is entertainment. | ||
| Backcountryme |
oops I just saw a problem in my last post. I ment to say that AMA doesn't need to worry about keeping old fans watching and much as they need to get new fans interested. I need to learn to read my posts before hitting the button. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated."_Mark Twain | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Ummm, btw I don't think Chaz is going anywhere. During one of the njmp broadcasts they mentioned that the entire millenium aprillia team was going to American superbike next year with Chaz on the new aprillia bike. | ||
| Hosephnj |
HMMMMM Brand single brand series? Think we will see a Buell cup!!!!! | ||
| Blake |
"As far as I can tell, NOBODY hates Buell." You obviously haven't read some of the hate that I have on other moto sites. You do understand the difference between a Superbike machine and what Buell is running in DSB, no? It seems that you don't. It seems that not many do. Ignorance is the problem. You do know that Buell 1125RR Superbikes piloted by Cory West and Taylor Knapp grabbed three top ten finishes at NJMP in American Superbike racing, no? | ||
| Bads1 |
I'll tell Matt you bore me to death with your continuing blasts at DMG and where rider are going and why and Blah and Blah and Blah Blah Blah Blah!!! Get over it. Go enjoy the series you do. I enjoy both. | ||
| Jaimec |
You mean, the other bike that DMG bent the rules to allow to enter? Let's see Rotax and Buell build a "NO EXCUSES" 1199cc twin that conforms to the EXISTING regulations and doesn't require rule twisting to compete. If Ducati and KTM can do it, there is no reason Rotax can't either. A REAL 1199RR that is street legal and sold to the public (without the AMA racing license requirement). That's what I want. Something that NO ONE can argue about, or make excuses, or rationalizations. | ||
| Backcountryme |
DMG put the rules out there before the season started. Nobody complained about the 1125R when it was allowed. The industry was asked what bikes they wanted in. Nobody complained. Then the 1125R started winning with ONE RIDER. Then people started to cry. One bike was up front all year (I say all year because Knapp took a bit to get there where Danny was fast day one). I get so tired hearing the whole DMG bent the rules for Buell crap. Give it up. On the scale of entertaining racing (the only one that matter when trying to attract fans) DMG hit a home run. | ||
| Spike |
Would you have purchased it over your 1125R? If so, why pick it over any of the other SBK-capable bikes already on the market? If not, I'd say Buell picked the right bike to build. It may not be the right bike for racing, but it was the right bike to sell to a street rider. | ||
| Jaimec |
Backcountryme: I was referring to the 1125RR. | ||
| 46champ |
"as far as I can tell no one hates Buell" All you have to do is read Superbikeplanet for a month, or the forum section of SpeedTV, MotorcycleUSA do I need to go on. | ||
| Blake |
Not much different than what FIM did for Ducati allowing them to go to 1200cc while their street bike was 1100cc. Not much different than allowing BMW to campaign an as yet to be released for public use bike. You see, contrary to the beliefs of some, racing sanctioning bodies are most interested in producing the best racing they possibly can. Their rulebook allows them to rewrite the rules any time they like. Get over it. There was no rules twisting, the 1125RR is based on the 1125R street bike and so was homologate at the request of AMA Pro Racing, just like the Ducati 1198R F09 is based on the 1198R street bike. Get over it and enjoy the racing. |
