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Diablo1
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 06:35 pm: | 
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After seeing the opposite posted on Sacborg, WERA, and even this message board, and just for the record: Danny's bike did not have more power than Barney's or Shawn. All three had identical specification engines. Danny rode his 1125R the hardest and the fastest on the day in question.
Anonymous...care to tell us how much RWHP those identical spec Buells had? Were any of them dyno tested?} |
M2nc
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 08:09 pm: |
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For you doubters, Eslick was not fastest on the big banking. He was only third fastest on the straightaway. The only section he was fastest was between turns 1 thru 9. In both races Eslick pushed to an early lead and then those behind him battled each other slowing themselves down. A bike in clean air will be faster in the infield than a group of bikes constantly fighting for position. In the second race when the cry-baby broke loose, he chased Eslick down but just ran out of talent not horsepower.
Diablo1 - can you tell me what RWHP the top four 600cc have? Can you tell me how a bike with less horsepower is faster on the big banking? Can you tell me why the big four refused a standard Dyno check after each race so all this pissing and moaning would be settled?
As for the general public, all most will see is that the Buell won.
I will repeat what is obvious to everyone with any common sense. Only one Buell in the top ten. If Buells had that much of an advantage, they would have been four Buells in the top five positions. That did not happen. As a matter of fact, two Aprilias beat the second place Buell. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 08:32 pm: |
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lets not talk about the Canadian Superbike results of last year aside from the 3rd place finish, even with a Superbike spec engine towards the end of the year.
reports were that the engine to which you are referring had 150 RWHP...a far cry from the 180ish that the literbikes were running. get your facts straight. |
Xb984r
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 08:45 pm: |
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Rocketsprink, comprehension not to good? When I said most people think this race class is a joke it has nothing to do with the 600's and everything to do with a 1125cc bike racing against those 600's and as for thinking it takes no skill to race, just where did I say that? It takes a lot of skill to race at any level. Sorry you cant handle when someones opinion of this win is different than yours. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 08:48 pm: |
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Rocketsprink, comprehension not to good? When I said most people think this race class is a joke it has nothing to do with the 600's and everything to do with a 1125cc bike racing against those 600's and as for thinking it takes no skill to race, just where did I say that? It takes a lot of skill to race at any level. Sorry you cant handle when someones opinion of this win is different than yours.
Then explain yourself. Sounds that way and to others. |
Elvis
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:00 pm: |
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"reports were that the engine to which you are referring had 150 RWHP...a far cry from the 180ish that the literbikes were running. get your facts straight."
Yep. According to official, post-race technical reports, Crevier's bike had 134 HP in the first race and 150 HP in the last one.
My guess is that was primarily exhaust work and tuning rather than titanium parts.
Cool to know that the base engine is capable of that kind of output, but I think they'll need a little more.
It is legal in AMA Superbike to use stronger pistons and modified valves. With those kind of modifications, it should be possible to increase compression and RPM's for higher output.
Unfortunately, engineering those kind of things requires the kind of money and experience that the big teams have but Buell doesn't.
You can bet Mladin can pull stronger pistons and higher performance valve springs off a shelf, drop them in his engine and have a pre-determined map to operate them at their optimum ranges. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:05 pm: |
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quote:Hey xb984r. Who views that class as a joke? A bunch of street riding douche bags that think the "can ride the wheels of a GSXR-1000"?
I'd love to see all the haters that haven't been on a track go ride the "joke 600's or the 1125" at more than a fast street pace and tell me it's a joke after that. I'll bet dollars to donuts I'd smoke them on my 12R race bike.
That excuse if for people that don't know any better. It's for people, apparently like you, that think it takes no skill or balls to race a bike. Seems to be the common belief that all you need is the Honda, Kawi, Suzuki, Yamaha of the week that churns out the most horsepower and the rest is history. I believe that you were all proven wrong this past weekend, and Eslick said it 100% correct. There were other Buells out there, and had it been a battle of just horsepower, they would have finished like a train. One after the other. But that didn't happen. Can you explain why it didn't? Can you explain why Hacking actually ran faster lap times in the 2nd race but still lost? If he's being out horsepowered, he could not have run faster times. Weird, huh?
I think we all knew this would happen. That's exactly why I started this thread. Seems a shame that people can't except the fact that the Goliath's were beaten by the lowly David of East Troy Wisconsin.
I, for one, am proud of Buell. I don't need it justified by anyone but myself.
Dead nuts on . . . . I hate it when I agree with you.
>>>When I said most people think this race class is a joke
I call bullshit . . . . . **YOU** say . . "most" . . . ask the average Joe Motorbiker and he'll tell you one thing.
BUELL WON
It's really that simple.
You are making up facts and your mental quiver is about depleted. |
Xb984r
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:14 pm: |
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"After seeing the opposite posted on Sacborg, WERA, and even this message board,"
Really I read over 7 pages of post on the WERA board and the majority thought the Buell in the 600 class was a joke, same on Sacborg
">>When I said most people think this race class is a joke
I call bullshit . . . . . **YOU** say . . "most" . . . ask the average Joe Motorbiker and he'll tell you one thing. "
Court, seems as I said above you are the bullshitter. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:19 pm: |
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xb984r. Sorry, my comprehension is just fine, thank you very much. You're inability to comprehend horsepower to weight ratio's, higher rpm's ,more cylinders, more valves, large cranks taking longer to get to redline, etc, etc, etc seems to be your sticking point.. I believe M2nc covers my point.
You're putting too much thought into the cc difference. I can handle your opinion. Try basing it on some facts too though. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:20 pm: |
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Then don't waste your time here anylonger. The 600's are matching the Buell in lap times. The Buell in no way is running away withthe race. Whats the joke??? Get rea!!! |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:21 pm: |
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Good sources to base your opinion on. 2 of the most anti-Buell sites around. |
Xb984r
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:27 pm: |
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You two want me to call the wambulance for you? All every one talked about on here was how this new format was going to make it easy for "Privateers" to race and as we can see thats not the case.The Buell has a torque and HP advantage because of the 525cc displacement advantage.But as long as Buell wins it's okay for one bike to have an advantage. |
Black
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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Been trying to keep my opinions to myself. A friend who manages a local metric dealership hosted a large group of riders for the 200. He told me that lots of folks cheered when Danny E. had the problem with the radiator fairing. I'll be honest, I was taken a little aback. I was reminded of when I was a kid and some other kid would say that he wanted a race driver to get killed so his favorite could win. I guess you can excuse that when you are hearing it from a child. I don't know...not really. A while back, I had a guy stop me on my Buell and ask how big my engine was. I told him and he said, "Wow, that's big." Of course I explained to him that his Kawasaki 636 could run rings around me because it had at least 20 more horsepower and that his bike weighed less. He red-lined several thousand RPMs above me too. I could corner better (or so I thought) and had a lot more torque. Engine displacement does not directly translate into horsepower. Anyway, if it was all horsepower those Boss Hogs with the V8s (or whatever their name is) would be winning everything. I'm pretty pleased that Buells that are near stock can hold their own with the 600s. I am also pleased that an American bike is doing so well. It is a peculiar time when the French and English like American bikes more than Americans do, or even some Buell owners for that matter. Some folk's attitudes are a little disappointing. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:36 pm: |
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Sorry but I'm not Buell bias. I'm a race fan and follow it pretty religiously. The 600's are proving to have just as much advantage. Hacking if that race was anylonger he may have won. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:40 pm: |
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An interesting line from the AMA website:
For the second straight day, parity was the theme of the race in Daytona SportBike where six different makes of motorcycles were ridden by the top-seven finishers. The top trio of Buell, Kawasaki and Suzuki were joined by the Yamaha YZF-R6, Honda CBR600RR and Aprilia RSV1000R.
It seems that the formula is working.
Now, if only there were a Triumph, BMW and a Ducati in the mix...
(Message edited by Crusty on March 23, 2009) |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:47 pm: |
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xb984r, what are you? Like 2 years old? The Buell weighs about 35lbs more than the 600's. Do you not understand that weight is a disadvantage in racing?
(Message edited by rocketsprink on March 23, 2009) |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 09:50 pm: |
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A friend who manages a local metric dealership hosted a large group of riders for the 200. He told me that lots of folks cheered when Danny E. had the problem with the radiator fairing.
Shows exactly how classless, dim-witted and immature LOTS of the younger, metric riders can be....I have talked to many and it's amazing how many don't know crap about motorcycles--even the very one they are riding. It would be interesting how many there even knew the Buell was a V-twin?
I am hoping it was a mob mentality and only a few were the real idiots--and the rest just followed along cheering the BAD luck Danny ran into |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 10:21 pm: |
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A friend who manages a local metric dealership hosted a large group of riders for the 200. He told me that lots of folks cheered when Danny E. had the problem with the radiator fairing.
exactly how classless, dim-witted and immature LOTS of the younger, metric riders can be....I have talked to many and it's amazing how many don't know crap about motorcycles--even the very one they are riding. It would be interesting how many there even knew the Buell was a V-twin?
I am hoping it was a mob mentality and only a few were the real idiots--and the rest just followed along cheering the BAD luck Danny ran into
I was there and most of the people weren't that young, but there were probably a lot of metric fans (It is a metric/Ducati dealer).
I didn't think there were many cheering the Bad luck Danny was having. But, obviously many of the people had their favorite brand that they were cheering on.
Most of the big noise was the when the plastic ties and tape came out. A lot of time was wasted and techs in the pits seemed clueless. Especially after he got off the bike to fix it himself. Enough of that as it's already been covered too much. |
46champ
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 10:23 pm: |
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Unfortunately this Harley bashing has been going on forever. It wasn't too many years ago I ran into a guy who was still pissed that the KR's got a 250cc advantage on the Triumph's and BSA's. I know I said Harley because the racing elite see Harley and Buell as one and the same. To make Political Hay amaproracing should take away the 20 lb weight advantage they have on the other twins, after all it will show that their trying to achieve an equal formula. |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 03:30 am: |
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"Diablo1 - can you tell me what RWHP the top four 600cc have? Can you tell me how a bike with less horsepower is faster on the big banking?"
It is aerodynamics. Come on Buell, get rid of the pods, and put the radiator under the seat ! Once again make us all proud for innovation, and then let Danny kill the 1000cc Il-4s as well !! |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 05:08 am: |
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>>get rid of the pods,
Be a shame as the pods improve aerodynamics. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 08:58 am: |
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"Just because a Buell finished way back in the pack"
Yet another example of poor integrity in reporting.
Shawn in fact finished mid-pack and on the lead lap.
The Ducati rider however apprently was continuing to suffer from that darn fogged up faceshield and one each of the Hondas and Suzukis broke trying to keep up.
AMA Pro National Guard American Superbike Presented by Parts Unlimited
Auto Club Speedway
Fontana, California
March 22, 2009
Provisional Race Results (dry conditions, all on Dunlop tires):
1. Mat Mladin (Suz GSX-R1000), 19 laps
2. Tommy Hayden (Suz GSX-R1000), -8.759 seconds
3. Larry Pegram (Duc 1098R), -13.371
4. Geoff May (Suz GSX-R1000), -13.584
5. Ben Bostrom (Yam YZF-R1), -19.655
6. Josh Hayes (Yam YZF-R1), -37.389
7. Taylor Knapp (Suz GSX-R1000), -38.033
8. David Anthony (Suz GSX-R1000), -38.287
9. Blake Young (Suz GSX-R1000), -41.947
10. Aaron Yates (Suz GSX-R1000), -51.611
11. Aaron Gobert (Hon CBR1000RR), -54.591
12. Scott Jensen (Suz GSX-R1000), -56.697
13. Hawk Mazzotta (Suz GSX-R1000), -79.085
14. Shane Narbonne (Suz GSX-R1000), -85.893
15. Shawn Higbee (Buell 1125R), -86.212
16. Eric Haugo (Suz GSX-R1000)
17. Josh Graham (Yam YZF-R1)
18. Dean Mizdal (Suz GSX-R1000)
19. Davie Stone (Hon CBR1000RR)
20. Mark Simon (Suz GSX-R1000)
21. Brad Puetz (Suz GSX-R1000)
22. Jeremy Toye (Hon CBR1000RR)
23. Brad Hendry (Duc 1098R)
24. Jake Holden (Hon CBR1000RR), DNF, mechanical
25. Chris Ulrich (Suz GSX-R1000), DNF, mechanical
26. Reno Karimian (Suz GSX-R1000), -19 laps, DNF, crash
27. Jeff Tigert (Hon CBR1000RR), DNS
Go Shawn! |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 09:07 am: |
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The following are worth repeating. Great posts Elvis and Rocco!
You aren't serious, are you? You don't think a bike that has never been raced at that level and has not yet begun to be modified to take advantage of the modifactions allowed at that level that can go from 25th in the first race to 18th in the second race and 15th in the third race . . . against riders like Mat Mladin, Larry Pegram, Neil Hodgeson, Ben Bostrom, Geoff May, Aaron Yates etc. etc. etc.- who all have big budgets, big sponsors, top teams.
. . . while Shawn is working with friends and relatives and practicing on used tires because he doesn't have the money to spend on things like fresh tires.
. . . if you don't think that's promising, then I'm not sure if there's any point in trying to reason with you. Word! 
Hey xb984r. Who views that class as a joke? A bunch of street riding douche bags that think the "can ride the wheels of a GSXR-1000"?
I'd love to see all the haters that haven't been on a track go ride the "joke 600's or the 1125" at more than a fast street pace and tell me it's a joke after that. I'll bet dollars to donuts I'd smoke them on my 12R race bike.
That excuse if for people that don't know any better. It's for people, apparently like you, that think it takes no skill or balls to race a bike. Seems to be the common belief that all you need is the Honda, Kawi, Suzuki, Yamaha of the week that churns out the most horsepower and the rest is history. I believe that you were all proven wrong this past weekend, and Eslick said it 100% correct. There were other Buells out there, and had it been a battle of just horsepower, they would have finished like a train. One after the other. But that didn't happen. Can you explain why it didn't? Can you explain why Hacking actually ran faster lap times in the 2nd race but still lost? If he's being out horsepowered, he could not have run faster times. Weird, huh?
I think we all knew this would happen. That's exactly why I started this thread. Seems a shame that people can't except the fact that the Goliath's were beaten by the lowly David of East Troy Wisconsin.
I, for one, am proud of Buell. I don't need it justified by anyone but myself. Word!
And WAY TO GO RICHIE MORRIS RACING, BRUCE ROSSMEYER H-D/BUELL, GEICO MOTORSPORTS, DANNY (SLICK) ESLICK, AND THE WHOLE TEAM!!! |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 09:11 am: |
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>>>>Court, seems as I said above you are the bullshitter.
Louder please . . . . I can't hear you from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay atop this podium.
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