| Author | Message | ||
     Alessio66xb12r |
i tried in the KV . i hope to get different answers here. i downloaded the new version of ecmspy and i found it really fantastic respect the first softwares , a lot more regulations and maps and most of all it works better(no confused rpm/tp columns) on the race kit ecm. my question is : how i can get a 20 or 25% more fuel delivery in that cells where values are 240 or 243 considering that 255 is the max. value possible ??? on my 88 i'm now using a Rapid Bike module and honestly it seems to work fine but on buells (only) that module has not front and rear cyl. maps , only one for both so i want to swap to ecmspy for a better tuning and sell the R.B. to some ducatist. my idea is to fix the AFV to an higher value to obtain my 25% more fuel and to maintain cells values under 255 max. . i received from a guy with more knowledge than me that asking for 20 or 25% more means an open time duration of injectors longer than 2 revs at high rpms.this is a bad point. now the R.B. module fuel map shows 22% more ( in the hot area , high rpms and high load) respect the race kit ecm values but if its true what he told me; 22% more is only what i read not what really happens. what you think can an AFV fixed to 120 give me this 20% more or there is not enough time for injectors at high rpms ??? just to know in a first time the R.B. was asking even 28% more in some areas , after squeezing the fuel pressure reg. the map was re-calibrated( too rich and the engine turning off at high loads) and the max. values are 22% more in the same areas. what i can't understand how a lot of shops shows their web pages 88" engines with un-real power and torque with hot cams hot heads bigger valves all kind of upgrades ...tuned only with a TFI ....this is a mystery to me. today i bought a "Stewart Warner" stoichiometric values reader and ordered a wide band o2 sensor . i want to see what happen in real time and start tuning without the Rapid Bike only with ecmspy, i think is a lot better. anyway if this injectors time problem will show to be real what i need ??? different pressure reg. ??? in this case can i stay with stock injectors or not ??? any help will be appreciated thank you Alessio  | ||
| Buellsrule |
Alessio, some are using a higher volume fuel pressure regulator which pushes more fuel through the injectors while they are open. This seems to solve the fueling problem at high RPM. You can contact Terry Reed at 419-545-1918. Terry is located in Columbus, Ohio. He has tuned a 88" XB with Direct Link and knows how to do it. Good luck. Frank. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
thank you tuning this bike turned out to be less easy than i supposed. when i did the brake in of this engine in the street i was sure it was working always on the rich side and spark plugs color confirmed that. after few track days (5 or 6) that color changed to an alarming withe ...now i'm waiting for the wide band o2 sensor to monitor what really happens in real time . a little story just to make you smile.... few months ago i asked to a real mechanic how to resolve the fact that i need more fuel pressure in the line , he told me " squeez the pressure reg." ...and i did it ...few days ago i have seen in the service manual the entire fuel pump assembly of my bike...well... do you know what i squeezed ???( i hope my name will be NOT deleted for the next 10 years from this web site) ....the FILTER. i know i'm stupid but not until this point ; the mechanic i asked showed me a BMW(car) pressure reg. and its form was looking like my filter . the curious part of the story is that after doing this the bike started to turn off because to much fuel( this is what spark plugs showed) so i remapped to less extreme values . a good point is that after doing some track days the bike still turn on and run without apparent problems ...so maybe my loyalty to the 45° was gratified. | ||
| Alex |
Alessio, if You like I can help You. I´m able to develop an individual ECU map for Your bike. It takes time, money and some effort but it can be done. I have done it quite often with my engines no matter of 1205 or 1470 ccm. I am in Germany and have all necessary equipment to do the job. Regards Alex M-TeK Engineering | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
thank you Alex i 'm sure and confident about your experience .right now i really finished the bike budget and i invested other money to buy those last equipment( equipment is a big word just a wide band sensor and a real time data reader ). in 3 weeks i'll be in better condition ( anyway not enough to send a bike in Germany ) i think i'll buy this new pressure regulator ....if you want and if you can find this regulator send me an e-mail . bye thank you Alessio | ||
| Slaughter |
Alessio, You can buy the regulator through Buell Racing - but you have to buy it through your local dealer because Buell Racing cannot sell to individuals, they must sell to dealer. If you are a licensed racer, you should be able to buy "race only" parts. The high pressure regulator WILL solve your problems! | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
i'll get the license in few days ( to be honest it does'nt means i'm a licensed racer). when i'll see my local H.D. Buell dealer trading with buell racing i will believe in it....will solve... thank you i was waiting for this . | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
....and i suppose the stock injectors will survives at the higher pressure... | ||
| Slaughter |
Yes, stock injectors will work at the higher pressures. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
all info removed. as a personal consideration. (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on September 15, 2008) | ||
| Sd26 |
Thanks Xoptimizedrsx! That's some valuable info for me. We'll talk more... | ||
| Neb25 |
Sd, I have a Buell Race Programmable ECM that I am selling for $500. I paid $750 for it from Henry Duga and that does not include the cost for dyno time for Hals to do the tuning. It is set up with a map for a 12 motor with 9 pistons and micron pipe with a K & N. The map was perfect for my bike. It is the new Windows based module that allows you do way more than I am capable of understanding. I am sticking with my old Dos based module since I know how to use it. If you are interested look me up at the next BHF races or send me an email. Joel | ||
| Sd26 |
Thanks, Joel. I think I'm gonna do the EcmSpy thing with Mike. I kind of looked at it a couple days ago, and I think it's cool. Mike's got some "bad" ideas too...LOL! | ||
| Turk |
if yoU going for a afr below 14.7 in open loop it will learn over time and you will be fighting it so lock the open loop learn off as i know the ecm inside out backwards and forwards. Not as well as you think. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
two days at the track with two bikes. yep shaved about .20 off each lap time. both riders had to change rear spring rate, and are now lifting the front tire if not is very very light. both bikes have new timing tables with a new offset totally different from stock and race ecms, fuel maps with the new timing mapped out without the major dip. lap tops and palm pilots are your friends as long as you have plenty industrial Velcro.thanks paint Dave this data will carry over to your bike. as i did learn a few new things being at the track testing data on one bike then seeing how the two equally riders look and score times on the track. speeds, corner speed coming off corners. straight away times. how the fork extension was pulling. not even riding i got tired filming and studying data. but both bikes fuel maps are not a like even though both have 100% identical data everywhere else. both do not have the dips in the middle at wot even the 60% tps up are nice lines. no more mid power dip lines. afv are running open loop learn off. i also changed data outside ecmspy then put that into the hex code then uploaded in a few of my own tricks not seen in ecmspy.its nice having a bit more data than everyone else and a complete different tuning system 95% of the people do get. hehehehe some things folks i don't share. but will use if i'm at your bike at the track only. not on street bikes. we will get dyno time on one of the bikes new data soon to see the difference on dyno runs compared to the actual track time to get a relation to that data from stock data. mike (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on September 23, 2008) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Thanks for the help Opti!! Invaluable!! My tack bike now runs like a scalded dawg!!! As for lifting, I don't believe the tire actually came off the ground, but the front end was VERY light (enough to cause a slight wiggle) out of turn 1 and turn 10, both in fourth gear. The increase in preload helped this, but it is still a torque monster!! | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
paint glad you like the work. i can still get a little more out of the bikes. we will have to load my bike up to take to the track and get some time on it there to gather new data. you ride i tune. i'll set the ecm back to stock and start over that day. then i can help even more racers out to the fullest. so do i get to work on the 08 now paint? also to all. if a new data is enough to make a spring rate change thats showing something. also i do see a difference in a street tune over a track tune. mike | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
last track day i tested the new set-up and the map done taking infoes from the air/fuel ratio reader mounted on my bike. the bike was faster (nice difference) i did my best lap-time in the first session ...and then everything happened... a collision with another bike(no crashes for both riders)...the shift lever went loose(1 hour fixing it again to the primary cover)...when finally i tried to lower again my best time the engine did his best to shooting a spark plug from the rear head in a very un-opportune moment. ..i like this progression in performances... but today the bad new , no more threats in the rear spark-plug hole so ....rotate the engine pull the throttle-body , pull the rear head i CAN'T believe this .... | ||
| Slaughter |
Bad news - The racing gods needed a sacrifice! It is too bad that YOUR ENGINE was the sacrifice! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'd be tempted to use a thread repair kit with the head in place, then go after the metal bits with the biggest baddest shop vac I could find, some duct tape, and some thin tubing... | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
i was tempted to use the repair kit (helicoil is the name or similar) but even rotating the engine no space to work properly on the rear head. this is curious ... 35 euros to repair the head in the shop and 82 euros for rear rocker box , primary and inspection windows on primary , 2 o-rings(top pushrods cover) , intake and exhaust GASKETS. bye Alessio | ||
| Reepicheep |
Makes sense. Thats a more then fair price to have a properly repaired head. Much less then it cost me to fix a ruined head on my KLR-250. | ||
| Easyrider |
Alessio66xb12r, what is your setup, cylinder, exhaust etc. Maybe I can help you with a better race map (for free)to begin with.. I suggest depending on the type of exhaust you use, to disable the O2 sensor, You don't need it on the track. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
thank you EasyRider this is my set-up: 2004 1203 engine with millenium cyl.s cp pistons(15°top side) 1425cc stock collectors and race kit muffler , stock cams stock valves with a light porting on heads. disabled o2 sensor and open loop learn. i used and still using a stoichiometric reader connected to a wide-band sensor to monitoring air/fuel ratio (while riding)and to make my actual fuel map.my bike has a race kit ecm afv fixed to 100 and because of only one sniffer for both cyl.s i did the same fuel map for front and rear using ecmspy . over the race kit ecm there is a RapidBike module with an almost flat fuel map from 16% more fuel(idling and low rpms/tp zone ) to 22%more fuel (high rpms/tp). i'm using the rapid-bike because i cannot put values bigger than 255 on the fuel tables , an alternative ,instead of the rapid-bike, should be fixing the afv to an higher value or the racing fuel pressure regulator . what i really want to do is to not use the rapid-bike anymore . thank you again Alessio |
