| Author | Message | ||
     Indy_bueller |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=33706 | ||
| Rasta_dog |
“If you look at (Aaron) Yates’ times today at VIR, he’s 1.5 seconds off the pole position. You can’t see that from the stands,” Edmondson says. “The racing in American Superbike is going to be incredible. The equipment is amazing, the riders are amazing, and that’s what we’re going to make sure that the audience knows that these are the bikes and equipment that they can buy. They’re not going to have $80,000 forks on them. This is the stuff that they can buy.” I've been an AMA Superbike fan for @ 9yrs. and I'm OK with that for now. It's been boring lately with Yosh Suzuki's dominance and no Ducati in Superbike, and no Buell in Formula Xtreme. Looks like that will change next year. | ||
| Trojan |
Just goes to show how the DMG plans are starting to unravel. If a major national road race championship doesn't have the support of the biggest 4 factories in racing then they are unfortunately destined to become a second rate championship. Some of the top guys in AMA racing were already starting to try and wriggle out of contracts for next year and you can guarantee that this will make them even more determined to do it. At a time when most domestic championships are re-aligning themselves with WSB rules and WSB is going from strength to strength this can only be a bad thing for US road racing in general. The racing may be close in the remaining DMG classes, but it will be slower and lacking in depth of talent. Let's face it, If you want to watch (relatively) slow, close racing featuring names you've never heard of then go club racing any weekend at any local circuit. A national Blue Riband championship needs more than that ;( I remember when the Daytona 200 was one of the top 5 prestige races in the world, and when the best riders in the world fought hard just to race there in such a great race. Remember Agostini, Hailwood, Saarinen, Sheene, plus of course all of the home grown US talent all trying to win the 200? That class of field will be a distant memory now. I doubt if any of the established 'stars' will bother any more. | ||
| Sd26 |
I think you're answering your own question. You're talk about how Agostini, Hailwood, Saarinen, Sheene raced the 200... But no talk about the manufacturers. Factory Superbike was never going to be the end game in the new AMA Superbike series. That's simple fact. It was going to be allowed to get four distributors time to transition. But they wanted continued rules changes even when they were given what they asked for. Contracts often restrict where riders race anymore. Thank lawyers and the rise of motorcycle racing for ruining that. Racing the Daytona 200 would be a risky proposition at the beginning of the year for a rider that is trying to vie for any championship outside the AMA series. The system that involved manufacturer/distributor teams messed up the series for all this time too because there are no opportunities or any value in outside sponsorship to any team, let alone a private team with deep pockets like Jordan. There are lots of personalities in the paddock. With a purse that might actually rival what one can make during a club race manufacturer contingency weekend, it will be nice to see people racing for a win rather than finishing for points. | ||
| Elvis |
Wow! This is getting intriguing. Is Edmondson serious or is this just a shot accross the factories bow . . . an attempt to get them to see that he's serious so they'll say: "Okay, okay, we'll sign on"? The factories have been talking aobut their own series, but I can't see that something like that would be successful. I think it would be clear to fans the factories would be trying to "buy championships" and I think such purchased victories would be as hollow as the current AMA "old boys club". I really like the "American Superbike" rules (here they are for anyone who's interested http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=33331 and the idea of keeping things as stock as possible and preventing too much modification - while allowing the 1200 cc twin limit of WSBK is very intriguing. The AMA has really become a small pond with four huge fish and 100 smaller fish, and I think the idea of preventing those huge fish from continuing to dominate - by not allowing the modifications that only they can afford - may not be so bad. Would Buell consider an homologation bike for American Superbike? They'd almost certainly need to get a little more power out of the 1125R, but if they could do that with an 1125RR (1200RR?) there's no reason it couldn't be competitive in American Superbike - and that would be an excellent stepping stone to WSBK. One thing I don't see in the rules is the homologation unit limits. At 400 bikes, I'd think Buell could pull it off. At the 3000 bike limit of WSBK, I think that would simply be too many bikes for Buell to sell . . . until they get a lot bigger than they currently are. I wonder if Edmonson has anything up his sleeve. If he could get privateers (with some factory support) racing Aprilias, KTM's, BMW's new superbike, Buell, MV Augusta, along with some riders on Japanese bikes, I don't think fans would be mourning the loss of the big Japanese factory money. While the original rules Edmondson proposed would have allowed Buell to jump in fairly easily, these American Superbike rules - while tougher because they would require an homologation bike - could offer some very interesting opportuniies for Buell and us as fans and consumers (raise your hand if your interested in an 1125RR). I really sort of hope Edmondson sticks with this in the face of the inevitable wailing and gnashing of teeth because I thenk there is some really interesting potential here and the elimination of the seemingly confusing and redundant dual Superbike format could make this a very entertaining series. I also hope he keeps Moto-ST in the mix because that would give him a very entertaining series with three distinct, unique, entertaining races: 1. Moto-ST - Endurance racing 2. 600 Superbike - Horsepower limited for some very tight competition and very diverse bikes. 3. American Superbike - similar to WSBK, but with tighter restrictions on modifications that will make it difficult for factories to "buy championships". If he can slog through all the political BS, I think this really has a chance. | ||
| Sd26 |
Roger doesn't have to deal with political BS if he doesn't want to. He was smashed up by the AMA and the manufacturers years ago. He knows exactly how they work. American Suzuki, etc., has known about the AMA sale to DMG and the Daytona Superbike structure since probably July of last year. Daytona Superbike IS the premier class by design. The Buell 1125R is legal for that class. The rules for Daytona Superbike are attainable and enforceable. MotoST will be in the mix at certain events, but it will race in some car events too as a way to cross promote cars and bikes. MotoST is participant driven really, not spectator driven like the AMA Pro Series. Two completely different opportunities. | ||
| Benm2 |
I think the manufacturers are full of schmidt. The WSB package was about the best I've seen, as a fan, for a while. WSB racing is close, with different manufacturers dueling it out, and alot of personality. I'm at a bit of a loss as to HOW the manufacturers would NOT want a change, aren't they as bored with the Suzuki domination as the rest of us? I don't get it, but then there's probably a substantial amount of things happening behind the scenes that would make it more clear. The MOTO-ST races that have been shared car events have been some of the best shows I've been to. The car folks really put on a show about how to run professional series, and as a fan of all things fast they provide an environment about as close to racing fan nirvana as I've seen. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, "If a major national road race championship doesn't have the support of the biggest 4 factories in racing then they are unfortunately destined to become a second rate championship." Seems as though you've forgotten what WSBK went through with the arrogant Japan Inc. folks who walked away from the series when rules were drastically changed. Did WSBK become a second rate championship? The DMG folks are some extremely smart and savy people. They are not the type to let their investment lose value. This is just a response to the Japan Inc. prevarication of seeking an alternate sanctioning body to support their idea of what motorcycle roadracing ought to be in America. They were very foolish in that. Without Ducati or any of the other manufacturers, they had little credibility. The history of WSBK proved that. The arrogance of the Japan Inc. folks is astounding. I predict that either this will play out much like WSBK did, or Japan Inc. will beg for reconsideration and promise to commit to the factory superbike series. Either way, I firmly support the DMG agenda. With HDI's purchase of MV, with great new racing platforms from BMW, KTM, Aprilia, Ducati, and yes, Buell, who needs the IL4 gang from Japan in order to enjoy factory superbike racing? I sure don't. I'd welcome their participation, but I sure won't cry a single tear if they refuse to show. Also, maybe you missed the announcement from DMG that their AMA Factory Superbike rules would merge with those of WSBK in 2010? | ||
| Smoke |
we'll see. dmg axed the closest racing of the season-supersport. i don't think the 1125R is eligible in daytona superbike due to water cooled ohc limit for ducati is 848. i think air cooled pushrod has the high cc limit in that class. maybe the 1125R is eligible for american superbike. new rules-all names in hat, each team pulls name from hat for their rider this race. that will mix em up. any big sponsorship deals signed for next year yet? tim | ||
| Elvis |
Smoke, The 1125R is definitely eligible for Daytona Superbike and clearly noted on the list of homologated bikes. Keep in mind there is a horsepower limit, so displacement is (relatively) insignificant. I think you're thinking of the current Formula Xtreme rules which do have specific displacement limits for the different configurations rather than the horsepower limit of Daytona Superbikes. There are currently 1125R's racing against 848's in the horsepower limited Canadian Thunder series. Hopefully Buell will do an 850 cc version of the 1125 at some point. As for American Superbike, the 1125R would be eligible, but - with the very limited modifications allowed - it likely wouldn't be competitive against the inline 4's until Buell releases a version with a touch more power and more race oriented components. (Message edited by elvis on August 16, 2008) | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Kudos to Roger Edmondson! His battle is really with the US Distributors- not the factories directly. In either case, I'm perfectly happy if they "take their stuff and go hooome." | ||
| 1313 |
there will be no Factory Superbike class in AMA Superbike racing in 2009, because the four Japanese manufacturers missed today’s deadline to commit to the class. Am I the only one saying "WTF?", right now? Not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 dropped balls (kinda reminds me of a joke - walk with pride, ye bastard, walk with pride - but I digress...). How can the "Big 4" miss out on what they apparently wanted? This all kinda reminds me of the Ducati 'My visor fogged up...' calamity, 1313  | ||
| Davegess |
Yeah, they wanted WSB rules and they got WSB rules. Only thing I can figure is they don't want the Daytona 200 to be anything to the new rules. I agree with Trojan that it is a shame that the 200 has faded so badly but it is likely impossible to run it WSB rules now because of tire issues on the banking. I think that the France family has zero confidence that big, heavy and powerful bikes can run the banking without have unpredictable catastrophic tire failures. The ones that lead to the FX 200 miles were very scary. As for the AMA series becoming a world backwater, I don't think it matters. MC racing in the US is not popular now. It does well compared to car road racing but compared to oval track or motocross it is small time. Sure the factories pay big money so it must be important for them in marketing terms but in terms of US entertainment dollars it is probably just above woman's pro basketball. I bet high school football outdraws pro bike racing 100 to 1. In other words it has a lot of upside and very little downside. If DMG can attarct just a very small piece of the general public they could be hugely successful. You can argue that no one wants to watch bikes that are not top spec but all you have to do is look at NASCAR vs F1 to see that Americans will come out in huge numbers to watch race cars that are not very sophisticated and will stay home in droves when the fasted races with the best drives show up. American race fans want to see action, close racing, lots of passing. They don't care if the vehicles are a little slower than some others as long as they put on a show. Most Americans could care less about what is happening in world racing. For most American race fans the first racing they see is some Friday night dirt track with low tech cars but lots of racin'. DMG does not need the factories to compete with that, they need a lot of competitive bikes racing, not 4 or 5 fast guys and 10 no hopers. I think there rules will result in that. | ||
| Slaughter |
Wasn't WSBK going to be the death of International racing - and for all the same reasons? Factories pulling away, spec tires, engine and other restrictions? Seems to have done OK | ||
| Elvis |
Here's a question for discussion. Aren't the rules for "American Superbike" basically what the rules for WSBK should be? http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=33331 Motorcycle racing isn't about achieving "Ludicrous Speed". Motorcycle racing is about going as fast as possible within the range of a certain set of limiting rules. Moto-GP bikes could be going 270 MPH under the right rule package, but that wouldn't really make the race "better", just faster. In theory, Moto-GP is about extreme engineering without the constraint of production limitations. In theory, WSBK is about production bikes which have reached a level of sophistication that can produce very entertaining racing. I've always preferred WSBK - not only because if gives an idea of what the bikes available in the showroom down the street can do, but also because it forces the manufacturers to improve the bikes available in the showroom down he street if they want to remain competitive. With that in mind, what's the advantage of allowing WSBK factories to make modifications to bikes when those modifications themselves cost many, many times more than the MSRP of that bike in the showroom so they can knock a few fractions of seconds off their times? What's in it for us as fans and consumers? Why do we, as fans, want to allow the modifications that are allowed in WSBK? Do those fractions of seconds really make the racing more entertaining . . . enough to justify the fact that we are now being misled regarding the "stock" nature of the bike? Don't those modifications reduce the quality of our bikes since our suspensions now don't need to be nearly as good as they would be if they were actually racing those suspensions? WSBK is making positive steps, but they are always fighing "the powers that be" - who like the idea of being able to pump a lot of money and exotic parts into the race to give them an advantage over the poorer, less experienced teams while still selling inexpensive production bikes that they can "pretend" are the same as the bikes that just won the WSBK championship - in a similar battle to what Edmondson is experiencing. This proposed rule structure should fix the biggest problem with AMA racing which is that the four big factories currently have a stranglehold on the rules that help them lock out any competition - fans and series integrity be damned. I think the big question is: "Is the fact that current AMA is controlled by four factories who pump a lot of money into the series a good thing or a bad thing.?" I think it's a bad thing. There are obviously some people out there who think it's a good thing. . . . but those people who think it's a good thing certainly aren't numerous enough to give even the illusion of full grandstands on AMA weekends. | ||
| Trojan |
Why do we, as fans, want to allow the modifications that are allowed in WSBK? Do those fractions of seconds really make the racing more entertaining . . . enough to justify the fact that we are now being misled regarding the "stock" nature of the bike? Don't those modifications reduce the quality of our bikes since our suspensions now don't need to be nearly as good as they would be if they were actually racing those suspensions? As for suspension, what gets used in WSBK this year will find its way to your road bike in the next couple of years for sure. Take a look at any modern sports bike suspension and it has improved in leaps and bounds even over the last 3-4 years. A lot of the rules in WSBK are not designed to make the bikes faster, but to make the bikes more reliable at higher speeds. For 'stock' or close to stock racing there is always Superstock. For example, WSBK rules allow the use of aftermarket con rods. BSB tried to introduce Superstock style engine tuning rules this year, including restricting bikes to the stock con rods. This has resulted in some huge engine failures and some big accidents when engines have let go at top speed. Rather than achieving the aim of reducing costs it actually increased the amount of engine rebuilds and new parts necessary during the season and spiralled costs upwards instead. For 2009 the rules have reverted back to the same as WSBK. This also gives the added advantage that local riders get the chance to ride as Wild cards in national rounds of the WSBK series, and have a logical stepping stone to the World series. You may find that the isolationist stance taken by DMG will reduce the amount of top class racing that visits the US even more than now. After all, why would WSBK race in the US any more if there is no prospect of any US riders in the field, and no chance of wild card rides because the machinery is totally different? I know that some people are excited about 'American Superbike' because it gives the prospect of Buell entering the race, but surely it leaves a sour taste when the rules have to be massaged to make the bike competitive? Remember FX and the embarrassment that caused? Nobody outside the US will take the results of American Superbike seriously because it will be a restricted class in much the same way that nobody takes Formula Xtreme or Canadian Superbike seriously as one of the major domestic championships in the world. I would love to see Buell racing at the very top level, but I would ONLY want to see it if they can compete on level terms with the best in the world, not in some 'made to measure' class that makes them a big fish in a small pond and severely dilutes any success they may have. I would certainly have far more respect for a bike finishing 10th in WSBK than one that wins 'American Superbike'. Next year we will see an unprecedented amount of manufacturers in WSBK with BMW, Aprilia and KTM joining the party, and if Buell want to be taken seriously as a race ready manufacturer then they should be prepared to build a homologation special just like Ducati & KTM and race on the world stage in WSBK. Blake, although the factories officially pulled out of WSBK over the tyre argument, they still kept an awful lot of involvement through the 'satellite' teams such Ten Kate, Yamaha Italia, Alstare Suzuki & PSG Kawasaki 'privateer' teams. If the big 4 pulled their support completely it would leave any major championship almost untenable and certainly much weaker. | ||
| Elvis |
A lot of the rules in WSBK are not designed to make the bikes faster, but to make the bikes more reliable at higher speeds. For 'stock' or close to stock racing there is always Superstock. I was hoping someone would mention Superstock. Why is there "always Superstock"? Why do we have two such seemingly redundant classes? How many fans understand the subtle rules differences between Superbike and Superstock? How many bike riders mistakenly think they are seeing their bikes out there racing when it's really a highly modified version? And doesn't the existance of Superstock show you can have great racing without the exotic modifications? For example, WSBK rules allow the use of aftermarket con rods. BSB tried to introduce Superstock style engine tuning rules this year, including restricting bikes to the stock con rods. This has resulted in some huge engine failures and some big accidents when engines have let go at top speed. Rather than achieving the aim of reducing costs it actually increased the amount of engine rebuilds and new parts necessary during the season and spiralled costs upwards instead. So what's rong with saying: "If you want to race those rods, you've got to make them stock?" Or, at the very least, they have to made available at some reasonable price? And again, how many fans really understand when one bike wins over another that it's really more about those behind the scenes super-secret outrageously expensive parts as opposed to how much better one production bike really is compared to another. Sure, race-bikes can be made much better with exotic parts, but when we're talking about a series that markets itself as production based, aren't any allowed revisions somewhat "dishonest" as it relates to the fans in general? What is the real advantage to the fan and consumer of those exotic parts? Isn't it really all about the factory teams (and them maintaining any real or perceived advantage over the competition) rather than the fan and consumer? Why should we, as fans and consumers, sit by while factories corrupt these series? The main thing those modifications do is keep small factories out, and I just can't see how reduced competition is a good thing for any racing series. | ||
| Bads1 |
I know that some people are excited about 'American Superbike' because it gives the prospect of Buell entering the race, but surely it leaves a sour taste when the rules have to be massaged to make the bike competitive? Sorry Matt but many of us that follow AMA racing are tired of seeing the factory teams on the box weekend in and out. Other riders as in Privateers have the skill level of some of the Pro riders. Give them a level playing field and then the chance to see somebody else win is there. Right now its who's going to Win Ben or Matt. BORING!!!! | ||
| Elvis |
Besides, wouldn't Buell have a better chance with Factory Superbike than American Superbike? Realistically, the 1125R in its current form isn't ready to go up against GSX-R's without some modification, so the greater modification allowed in Factory Superbike would have allowed them to throw money at the problem even if the stock bike wasn't quite up to the task yet. That's why I always prefer rules that are as stock as possible. Sure I'd like to see Buell compete, but what I ultimately want is for Buell (and everyone else) to make better bikes. From a "Buellcentric" point of view, the original DMG proposal would have been ideal, but from a broader perspective, the currently proposed structure looks great to me . . . particularly now that they've removed Factory Superbike and stripped things down to the basics. Even casual fans should understand how these proposed races are very different from one another. The only revision I would make to the current plan is I would allow configurations other than twins into Moto-ST, increase the horsepower limit (with phased in yearly increases until they could get up into the 160 - 170 range) thin it down to one class, and make the Daytona 200 a Moto-ST race. But that's a long term adjustment, and, who knows, something like that may already be in the planning stages to be phased in. | ||
| Sd26 |
For the 1125...who cares? It's eligible for Daytona Superbike. Rules offer more opportunity, and it is the AMA's new premier class. Now, who'd make a list of some riders that would be ready to race for $50k for a win? Barnes, Jensen, Yates. Those would be three that I'd start to look at for my team. | ||
| Trojan |
How many fans understand the subtle rules differences between Superbike and Superstock? Not sure about over there, but here in the UK there is no confusion over classes, and fans know the difference between Superbike, Superstock & Supersport. Also pretty much everyone accepts that the bikes that you see racing in 'Superbikes' are only distantly related to the showroom models they are based on. What fans here (and in most countries too)want to see is the fastest and most exotic 'production based' race bikes you can get outside of MotoGP. Any attempts at 'dumbing down' the formula have always been met by lower viewing figures and less crowd attendance at race meetings, and replacing Superbikes with something like 'American Superbike' rules would be treated with utter contempt by most national race organisers and fans alike. If Mladin & Spies are winning every week in the USA it is not the fault of the rules or the organisers, but their competitors. It just so happens that Suzuki have got their act together better in the AMA than anyone else and have two of the top riders as well. When Honda dominated for years with DuHamel, Hayden & Roberts did we hear any suggestion that the rules should change? Just because H-D dominate flat track racing (because of some pretty xenophobic rule making over the years) have the fans stayed away because the racing is boring? It is niaive to think that a change in rules will make a level playing field, because it almost certainly won't! The biggest teams will still have the deepest pockets and will buy the fastest bikes & riders. The less well off teams will be in the same position that they are now within 6 months of the new rules taking effect. Then what happens, more restrictions? Isn't it really all about the factory teams (and them maintaining any real or perceived advantage over the competition) rather than the fan and consumer? Why should we, as fans and consumers, sit by while factories corrupt these series? Factories do not corrupt the series, they all (privateers included) try to play as close to the rulebook as possible. The factories (through the national importers mostly) put huge amounts of investment into domestic Superbike racing both here and in the US. Without the factories and factory support it would be a pretty poor 'national' blue riband race series that's for sure. Running a race team of any description is a hugely expensive beusiness, and running one at the top level requires either some level of manufacturer involvement or some very good sponsors. As I said before, if what you want to see is comparitively slow racing with no factory involvement (hence little sponsorship or support) go and watch any club meeting any weekend. Like it or not, part of the TV attraction of motorcycle racing is the glamour and glitz that goes with it, and this is almost exclusively provided by the factory and semi factory teams who put a lot of money into racing. If the TV 'spectacle' consisted of watching unknown names circulating on badly prepared bikes and camping in the back of vans it wouldn't last very long I can assure you. Once the TV audience goes then the sponsors tend to go with it, and they are the lifeblood of the sport. The main thing those modifications do is keep small factories out, and I just can't see how reduced competition is a good thing for any racing series. Rather than keeping small factories out, the current WSBK rules actually make it easier for smaller factories to compete by lowering the number of bikes required for homologation purposes. KTM & Aprilia are both 'small' factories yet currently manage to field teams in GP250 and will be in WSBK next year. They understand that the bikes they race don't have to be the same as those in the showroom, but that it is the commitment and enthusiasm of the factory that will attract customers. KTM's 'Race ready' motto has done wonders for their sales and the demographic of their buyers, and they are seen as a forward looking, exciting and go getting company for it. Nobody actually expects to go into a KTM dealer and buy what they see racing on Sunday. Maybe you are right, attendances at AMA Superbike race meetings are nowhere near those of European domestic Superbike series or WSBK. Maybe the US public really don't want the same as the rest of the world. However I doubt it, and think that in a couple of years there will be questions asked why there are so few US riders in top international racing, and why there are so few international stars willilng to race in the US. And that will be a shame. | ||
| Elvis |
Buell's participation hasn't gotten much talk (and since they haven't announced anything and haven't really participated in the past, I guess there's not much to talk about). You only have to look at the VR1000 or XBRR to see how much interest might be generated if an American bike will be competing in the AMA. Both those times, Harley/Buell was jumping the gun and - while the XBRR was a big step up from the VR1000 - neither bike was really a production bike or comparable to the other bikes on the grid. Now that Buell has a real production bike that can compete, Buell's participation could be key to how well this thing works. I think the big question for the AMA is: How do you get all those Harley riders who show up in Daytona every year to actually go and watch some racing? Buell's participation would have to draw a few of those "Proud to be an American" type fans into the races. I'm betting Roger Edmondson knows more about Buell's plans than we do. | ||
| Elvis |
Matt, I don't have time to comment on all your points, but I do think you make some good ones. I do like the idea of shifting toward WSBK rules and have made comments regarding that in the past, but at this point, the AMA needs to pick something, anything so that riders can start planning. I like the American Superbike rules in combination with the other proposed races. Alternatively, I would have liked WSBK rules in comination with the other proposed races (though I DON'T like the idea of both Factory Superbike and American Superbike, because I think that continues the tradition of too many similar races). The key is that DMG/AMA needs to pick something and stick to it. I believe that single fact is more important than anything else at this point. Regarding homologation limits, aren't they going up to 3000 bikes? Considering MV Augusta sold 5800 bikes overall according to many of the things I've seen, that number is pretty high, wouldn't you say? | ||
| Sd26 |
DMG has said that Daytona Superbike will be the premier class. Everything in marketing will revolve around that just like the top flight Cup Series class in NASCAR. While it gives an opportunity to "plan", it doesn't give one a lot of marketing clout to say what will happen. I know there's supposed to be 5hrs plus of HD TV programing that has already been bought. Still very hard to plan. The question becomes where will the sponsors come from initially that will take a risk on a new series. Some of the teams that are current participants with investments in the AMA series already, but are not manufacturer/distributor teams, will have their money/parts/bikes cut off from American Suzuki, etc. Now, most teams still know very little until just before Daytona anyway about what their support will be. It's a continuing process of being left in the dark. I know teams that don't ever get their full alotment of oils from industry sponsors too. The questions that continue to be lacking are about the riders. While the tracks talk about "personalities", that's the only talk I heard about riders. Where do I recommend a rider go for 2009? It's been better financially for a rider to do manufacturer contingency races to make a living, in general. If you're Mat Mladin, obviously, things are different. I'm unsure what 2009 will bring. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
America tends to be more "team" oriented rather than "individual" oriented when it comes to many sports. The die-hard fans can name all the "players", but many just pull for the "team" that they like/are familiar with. In motorcycle racing, many cheer on "the guy" who's racing the same bike that they ride, and conversely, the new bike buyer purchases the brand that they see winning on the track. DMG is trying to make things more European, where fans follow riders- even if they change manufacturers. I think it will be an uphill battle. Americans like it simple- whatever name is on the tank of their bike is who they're pulling for. It's like football, the line up constantly changes but the team is always the same- a fan is a fan regardless of the names on the back of the jerseys. | ||
| Skinstains |
I should really just log off and spare myself the headache. But I can't resist. I think that all the AMA riders should get together and set up a schedule where all of their finishing positions will be pre determined so that at seasons end there will be a ten way tie. This way they can just marc time around the tracks without any risk of injury/death or expensive repairs/rebuilds. They will probably be able to run the bike untouched all season. By doing this they will have effectivly neutered those overbearing pogues at DMG and the AMA. The power is in both us (the fans) and the riders/factories. Three entities that so far seem to think the AMA and DMG suck as of late. I understand that to get this many people together and on the same page will be difficult and time consumming. However, it will be well worth it in the long run. What is the worst case scenario ? We the fans and racers miss one season while we fall back and regroup ? Major League Hockey missed a season I think, and they're still around. We need to do this before our beloved sport becomes a two wheeled mish-mash of Professional Wrestling and that rediculous excuse for auto racing NASCAR. Haven't we all noticed that Moto-GP is now farmed out to CBS ? I like Greg White and am happy that a grass roots racer has made a living out of what he loves. But, CBS is obviously forcing him to "dumb it down" so that non-fans can learn and partake in OUR sport. Have you noticed how many commercials there are now. I like to think that American roadracing is in the stage that NASCAR was in the 60's and 70's. All the sponsors were in the field of motorsports in some way. I hope I never see an AMA racer wearing UPS brown leathers with his bike painted like a parcell or any other such rediculousness. Nor do I want to know what they do and who they do it with when they're not racing bikes. I don't want to see an Olympic style gymnastic exercise when a rider wins or places well either. Can "I" get this done...NO. Am I willing to sacrifice some of my time and money to start a new organization to challenge and replace the AMA as the United States' premier race sanctioning body ? YES ! Just immagine a race series that follows the AMA's circuit one day after them at the same tracks but on real Superbikes without all the paddock drama that they are soon to have and with real commentators that have a reasonable command of the English language(Freddy)and don't draw on my TV screen with that stupid NFL magic pen/marker. We get it, you've been there and done that but it's not about you anymore you swollen headed skullcooker. Take a lesson from Jonathan Green why don't you ? In one or two years time all the AMA contracts would be up and we would have what we want...real motorcycle racing without all the horse****! I don't pretend to know it all but I do know that "my" sport is circling the drain and I'm not very happy about it. I bet that John Ulrich could handle the task of creating a club/organization that would easily destroy the AMA as far as racing is concerned. Well how do we get the ball rolling ? | ||
| Bads1 |
Matt, I don't think you get it and until the NASCAR people are done doing what they are set off to do,I don't think you will. I'm looking forward to it. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, I don't think you get it and until the NASCAR people are done doing what they are set off to do,I don't think you will. I'm looking forward to it. Maybe your right, I don't get NASCAR at all to be honest. I have been to Daytona and seen the Nascar museum etc, and it left me stone cold. The thought of watching anonymous saloon cars (that have very little to do with either production cars or racing cars) sponsored by M&M's or Tampax turning left for hours on end, driven by people I've never heard of, would put me off all forms of motorsport for life. If that is what the US public wants from their motorcycle racing then who I am to rock the boat. After all, I will still have BSB, WSBK & MotoGP. I just feel sorry for the US race teams, factories, importers and most of all the bike watching public, who I feel are being treated like children in this, and I would bet money that come 2010/2011 there will be more big changes afoot in US motorcycle sport in order to relaunch and realign itself with the rest of the world.  Where is the incentive for factories or teams to invest in DMG's proposed plans? Do you think that the big 4 manufacturers will start making bikes that fit into 'American Superbike' rather WSBK? Where is the incentive for engineers to work on new and ground breaking technology or even to improve on the bikes we currently ride? Where indeed is the incentive for local club racers to aspire to? I also think that DMG have no idea of the deep damage they are doing to road racing in America, but when they do it will be too late. The factories, the sponsors, the circuit owners and all the other organisations and individuals that support and promote racing, from brass roots right up to the highest level, will have taken their money, experience and expertise and gone elsewhere, leaving US motorcycle racing as a cute Nascar Disney experience but little more. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
While I believe there is a need for a bottomless $$$ racing class, maybe this is what American motorcycle racing needs, ala OLD-Skool NASCAR. Start with stock bikes, allow for some mods and go racing!!! Bring back the "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" attitude! In America, this should draw more fans and make the racing more exciting! | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
The current AMA Pro Racing series (yawn, snore) is what you get when the factories (read US Distributors) run the show. Suzuki has won 40 consecutive Superbike races, and regardless of what you think the reasons are, that wouldn't happen in a series with effective leadership. I think DMG is going to save American Pro Racing from itself. DMG will use their successful experience to help get more of the American audience (riding and non-riding) to become fans of motorcycle racing. A larger audience is good for everyone- DMG, riders, teams, OEM's, distributors, tracks, and the aftermarket. It is impossible to capture the US's interest with a non-competitive series. New fans do not know the riders, the specs, the rules, or the difference between bikes doing 160 instead of 180. DMG understands that supply is nothing without demand- and they are masters of creating demand. They will get a larger viewer base, and then fine-tune where needed. If the Big Four cannot, or will not understand this, it's their loss. The AMA under DMG leadership is the future of American Pro Racing, and those who don't participate are going to miss out. I am very much looking forward to an improved, more successful AMA thanks to the professionalism and expertise of DMG. |
