| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
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| Doerman |
That could be a powerful thing, Elvis. I hope somebody is listening. | ||
| Xb984r |
The 1125R better win every race with the advantage it is going to have in the 600 class.I wonder why the 1098 and RC8 isn't on that list. | ||
| Bigblock |
Dude! Quit yer whining over (potential) Buell success. Do a little research before you bitch. <http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/may/080526a.ht m> | ||
| Bigblock |
Sorry, rant over! This actually sounds like a real good thing for more than just Buell! | ||
| Xb984r |
I did do a little research,tell me why you think they don't have a huge advantage,Buell isn't the only bike with an advantage,but they still better win every race.You really think wins over 600 cc bikes is going to be success? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
TSN is the Canadian ESPN. We won't see it here in the States unless a Canadian Badwebber can get it for us. | ||
| M1combat |
I'll be able to get them once they air. | ||
| M1combat |
"You really think wins over 600 cc bikes is going to be success?" Depends on the swept volume of the engines in question. Wouldn't exactly expect the uninformed to understand that though, and yes, wins against 600cc bikes doesn't SOUND impressive but it really depends on the 600cc bikes in question. I mean really... GP bikes were only 500cc not TOO long ago... | ||
| Elvis |
While most race fans won't get it, it could be argued that the 600 cc bikes have the advantage. All bikes are going to be limited to 140 HP, so the Buell won't have any advantage in power. (and that's why it doesn't make sense to allow the 1098 - they could, but the power on the 1098 would be limited down to where a well tuned 848 would be naturally). So what we'll be seeing is stock Buells going up against highly tuned, highly refined 600 cc bikes. So the 600's will be have high output 600 engines in very small, light packages. Think Moto-GP. Moto-GP bikes only have 800 cc engines. If a Moto-GP bike went up against a stock ZX-14, which bike would have the advantage? People are way too focused on displacement. Unfortunately with this format, Buell's going to have to deal with the general lack of understanding on the public's part. I think it's Edmondson's responsibility to educate viewers a little bit about these details . . . and I have a feeling he will. I've heard him say some things that make a lot of sense, so I think he has a real vision and plan. Assuming Buell wins, they'll be winning with a bike that is very close to stock, but you won't be able to go out and buy one of those 600 cc bikes if you try. I think this move demonstrates something I've been guessing about for a while. Edmondson recognizes that the key to invigorating American road racing is to get an American bike out there for people to root for. (Message edited by elvis on May 27, 2008) | ||
| Diablobrian |
+1 M1 & Elvis | ||
| Anonymous |
"Yep, by God those Buells (built by a team of 190 people in East Troy) better get out and kick butt over those Hondas (built by a company with 170,000 employees) or let's let those Buell guys know how disappointed we are, how badly they have failed. How dare those Buell people challenge what we know is right, that we in the US are incompetent and have lost all ability to think out of the box, to be pioneers. We are the bitches of the imports, and don't forget it." Sissy Nation. | ||
| Elvis |
What happens when you look at it from this perspective: The BMW HP2 is a $25,000 purpose built endurance racer with a 1200 cc displacement? They damn well better win Daytona or what kind of laughing stock will they be . . . running against bikes that cost 1/3 as much and have half the displacement. But we understand how silly that sort of assumtion is . . . don't we? Edmondson realizes that there are a lot of riders of bikes other than Ducati and Hondakawayamasuki. There are a LOT of BMW riders in the US, and for the first time, they actually had a reason to visit the race track or watch the Daytona 200 on TV last year. And even thought there are probably more Honda riders in the US than BMW riders, I'll bet the typical BMW rider is going to be more likely to take an interest in seeing BMW's race than a Honda rider. It's something new and different. The BMW rider can't turn on the TV and see a BMW racing any weekend of the year. That's the key to getting people interested, and Edmondson recognizes it. | ||
| Buellsrule |
Back on point. What these results really show is just how great a rider Crevier is as a rider and how great a basically stock 1125R is at getting around a race track. BR. | ||
| Blake |
Wow! Just back online for the first time since Saturday morning. Had a GREAT holiday weekend and now to learn the great news makes it even better. Way to go Ruthless Racing, Steve Crevier, and Buell Racing! Amazing! Steve Crevier and his 1125R apparently owned the corners. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) (Message edited by blake on May 27, 2008) | ||
| Xb984r |
Guess what perception is all that matters.When other V-Twin sportbikes ara racing against th 1000 IL-4 and holding there own,heck Buell podiumed against the 1000's.I seem to recall people saying the 1098 was running about 135 rwhp and the RC8 is close to the 1125.Sorry,but when the 1125r goes up against those 600's and doesn't at least podium every race,things will be tossed around in the motorcycle world.Call it bashing or uninformed but perception is perception. | ||
| Kenneth |
So are you proposing that Buell should sit out the Daytona Superbike class....or that they should build a I-4 600 to compete in it? That sure would be different in every sense.... | ||
| Smoke |
what's up with the last anonymous poster? little value there. Crevier and all did a great job within a limited time frame to put the bike on the box. the Badweb collective seems to, would of been stoked for a top ten finish. i think this shows great potential for the bike. in a hp limited series all 140hp limited bikes should be welcome regardless of make or displacement. but really it should be 120hp for the lowest weight limit for the class. higher weights for higher hp-420lb for 140hp. 360lb(the stated minimum) for 120hp. keep the 1000's(and bigger twins) as the premiere class is my opinion. ymmv tim | ||
| Xb984r |
Kenneth,I think Buell has nothing to gain in the new Daytona Superbike Class.Can you imagine what will be said if Buell doesn't podium every race,look at the XBRR,so yes I think they should stay with the IL-4 1000's. | ||
| Elvis |
1. I think the new AMA Superbike is one of the most interesting and potentially entertaining race series in quite some time. 2. Buell would be doing themselves, the series and their fans a great disservice by not participating. 3. There is a potential perception problem, but people will just have to get over it. Ultimately I would like to see Buell create an 850 cc bike to compete in these kind of races, but they don't have one right now. 4. The perception problem will not be Buell's alone. Nearly every bike in the series has a different displacement. The series is horsepower limited. Most viewers will get it. These bikes will be much more evenly matched than displacement matched series. Anyone who expects a 140 HP Buell to have a dramatic advantage over a 140 HP Suzuki or a 140 HP Ducati etc. etc. etc. . . . probably shouldn't be operating a two-wheeled vehicle. Buell can afford to lose those sales. 5. The best way to learn to race is to race. Buell is not nearly ready for WSBK (or likely AMA Literbikes without a higher performance homologation bike), but they're out-growing Thunderbike. This series is a Godsend. 6. Edmondson will likely get great TV coverage for this series and there are a LOT of Buell fans out there who would like to see Buell race at this level. | ||
| Kenneth |
I don't think that Daytona Superbike is meant to cater to the Japanese 600 crowd... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Superbike implies 1000cc machines IMO. | ||
| Elvis |
"Superbike implies 1000cc machines IMO." What about Ducati?  Yeah, I think the use of the term "Superbike" for the race is cheesy . . . particulary when Edondson said he would return Superbike to the Daytona 200 . . . then told us this is Superbike.  This race series is a hair away from being great. Call "Literbike" "Superbike" and leave it as the premier race, and the new format would be fantastic. Ultimately, I think the fans and the racers may veto Edmonson's choice of the premier race, and "Literbike" will remain the race everybody wants to see. (Message edited by elvis on May 27, 2008) | ||
| Mcgiver |
"Superbike implies 1000cc machines IMO." Statements like this will soon be old school thinking. Brian | ||
| Mcgiver |
Edmondson has some, "outside the box thinking", and current AMA fans are not making the sport grow. It is time for change! Brian | ||
| José_quiñones |
You guys need to look into Mr Edmonson's background, this is not his first time on the AMA roller coaster. A lot of the thinking behind the new class structure is based on his over 25 years of experience: creating CCS, running the AMA program once before and popularizing the 600 supersport class, getting screwed by the AMA when they took control away from him, beating them in court and currently with GrandAM/DMG. BTW, "Superbikes" were once 1025cc, then reduced to 750cc and are currently 1000cc. Look to the Canadian Superbike rules/format for clues to how the final AMA rules will look in 2009. (Message edited by José_quiñones on May 27, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
All I can say is that any AMA change is welcome, the 1000cc racing couldn't get much more boring. | ||
| Elvis |
Look to the Canadian Superbike rules/format for clues to how the final AMA rules will look in 2009. The big shoe I'm waiting for will be if Literbike follows the horsepower limited Canadian format or the WSBK format. Even though the horsepower limited verstion would be much better for Buell, I'm hoping for the WSBK rules. While not as beneficial to Buell short term, it would be better for Buell and us long term because it would force Buell to create an homologation bike to compete. With WSBK rules, it would also give Buell a stepping stone into WSBK. I also think it would help differentiate the "600 Superbike" and "Literbike" series. Edmondson seems to be hinting that he'll keep the WSBK rules, but I'm not convinced. I'm also nervous that if he does the WSBK rules, he may look to shifting it in the years to come. I think the most important thing is that he chooses a format that he will stick with for the foreseeable future. If he goes with WSBK rules just to satisfy some of the teams, but goes into it with the idea that he'll change it, he won't be doing anybody any favors. As we saw with Erik Buell's problems in the '80s, it's key for a racing series to maintain rules so that racers can plan. | ||
| Trac95ker |
I hope they go with WSBK rules too. I like to watch guys do things on a bike I can't like backing it in and drifting it out plus wheelies at a 100 mph. Adjustments can be made to the current superbike class to make things more competetive. They could lower the displacement to 800 or 900cc's. he also states the speeds are to fast and things are getting out of hand. Oh well thats racing. Let the cream rise to the top. | ||
| Slaughter |
I think the litrebikes are DONE at Daytona (and other tracks). Their departure is long overdue. Read the accounts of racing at Daytona from just a few years ago when 1000 was the limit. Daytona ESPECIALLY!!! Bikes were on the banking, suspensions bottomed and sliding BOTH ENDS toward the wall lap-after-lap-after-lap. If there was NO WALL and NO BANKING and acceptable run-off, it might work out for the better but doubt that is going to change anytime soon. And yes, on the banking at Daytona, the superbikes ARE SLIDING!!! Couple that with the fact that when a rider gets spit off, he doesn't exit the track but slides/tumbles along the track IN the racing line (ask Higbee) I read Corey Eaton's account of Daytona on our Willow Springs BBS and it frankly scared me just visualizing it. Yeah, that's racing - but sooner or later, you have to stop killing and maiming folks to entertain the spectators. Face it, American tracks are not all that great for AMA-level racing, let alone WSBK or MotoGP - excepting Miller, Laguna and now Indy (with exceptions). |
