| Author | Message | ||
     Vonsliek |
http://www.halspa.com/default.asp?P=15 w/out anyone slagging off or voicing politics - so i am happy to receive only pm's on this topic - what has been the experience of a kit like this for short closed circuit racing?? i am looking to build a monster racebike for short, twisty tracks in canada. we have a horsepower:weight thing, so adding ballast is always an option .. i want the gnarliest track/race bike & i will find places to race it to suit, as to race in my town will be shortly unlikely, so travel is the way it is! paul  | ||
| Slaughter |
If you are in a racing class with power/weight instead of just displacement, that'd be about perfect. Shoot Terry Galagan an email and ask him about details. He is a straight shooter. He posts on Badweb as Halsracing. You really ought to consider adding re-valved and re-sprung forks and a good rear shock (Penske or Ohlins - haven't tried Elka yet). Also if you are going to be running different tracks, do the swingarm change out to the RR swingarm and chain drive to enable changing final drive ratios. Not taking anything away from the engine stuff but the suspension/handling and braking confidence goes a LONG way to bringing down lap times BEFORE you get into modifying the motor. AND the suspension work doesn't affect engine reliability! That being said, I would not hesitate to contact Hals about that engine work. Also shoot Max or Danny an email at Traxxion Dynamics about their AK-20 cartridges for your forks, a re-valving and respringing job. AMAZING difference! The rear shock is going to be $800-$1300 depending on how many bells and whistles. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'm with Slaughter 110% on this. You will usually see more benefit from suspension upgrades than the same dollars spent on the motor so the suspension is where smart money goes first. Especially on a short track. The difference between a properly sprung and valved suspension and the stock units is night and day. Diablomichael does not care much for riding his street XB9r currently because "compared to the race bike the suspension is CRAP!" | ||
| Rfischer |
I too would vote with Slaughter and Diablobrian. My [considerable] experience with H-D based "gnarliest" race engines is that they are overly-large hand grenades with exceedingly short fuses. If you are good enuff to need high HP to be competitive on the national level, buy a Ducati or Suzuki.... However, if you absolutely insist on mod'ing your motor, go see Johnson Engine Technology [a forum sponsor] for a reliable high-torque motor that will be easier to ride than a hot-rodded peak HP lump and will make it a season without major issues. My 2 kopeks worth.. (Message edited by rfischer on September 25, 2007) | ||
| Hooligan620 |
So when talking about modifying the suspension before the engine, if you've only got money for one which should you upgrade first, the fork or the shock? | ||
| Slaughter |
Shock first (in my opinion) - the forks are closer to "race-ready" with more range of adjustments (you have to at least get a spring set for the forks that is matched to your weight) You can do the fork re-valving and re-springing yourself but will have to rig up a fork spring compressor tool. If you have an extra $1000, you can get the AK20 fork cartridges too... heck, it's only money! As Max at Traxxion said when I asked him if I can use the Showa shock: "sure, you can use it as a doorstop" It's not a BAD shock per se - you can always sell it to somebody riding an SV650 since the stock SV suspension isn't worth squat and the XB shock is one that's been tried/tested. | ||
| Vonsliek |
i guess - having an 04 R1 racebike w/ traxxion forks & penske 3way shock matched to my weight, i do have an idea what good suspension is .. the buell is stock suspended at present. things i don't trust on buell is brakes!! my brembo 19x18 radial master cylinder is a single finger from 270kmh braker .. the buell at 220kmh chatters (as rotor warps after a while) & barely stops at above braking markers .. so, suspension yeah .. i can see buell needing that, as it jumps all around under severe riding .. suspension was always going to be taken care of. what i was interested in (& Rfischer touched on it) was whether it would be competitve & worth the cash, or would i be better served buying a more appropriate twin by selling the R1 & xb12r? i am thinking 1098 ducati ... | ||
| Jimidan |
Remember: With sophisticated shocks and forks come complicated set-ups. It ain't easy for most of us dialing in these multi-adjustable shocks with 18 compression settings and 12 rebound settings, or whatever. You've gotta be able to feel for the very slight differences in feedback from your tires, and some folks really have a knack for it, and some folks don't...like me. There are a lot of guys who race who never touch their shocks after they get them "right" because they can't feel the subtle differences between a half click here or a full click there. Then there are those guys who let someone else set up the suspension, and then they learn how to ride it that way all the time. Obviously, these guys have not learned enough or just do not have what it takes to be really fast. You have to be good enough to utilize all of the technology in these very expensive suspension parts. A very poorly adjusted expensive shock might not be any better than the stocker that is really dialed in correctly. It is easier to dial in a less complicated suspension, but it is only going to be so good. Stick with smooth tracks in that case! Good luck! | ||
| Court |
Amen | ||
| Slaughter |
Yabbut good suspension will ALWAYS drop your laptimes MUCH SOONER than HP ever can. Sure, it takes studying to do it right but I still feel that there is an over-emphasis on horsepower when it's HANDLING that will do so much more. Get the bike setup and working well and after a year of racing, you'll be due for an overhaul anyways-that's maybe a good time to fool with the engine. I ran both the SV and the XB - same track, same days. Took me about a year to get consistently faster on the XB than the SV - and it had almost 30 more HP. I bought the SV suspension from Eddie Kraft (WERA regional champ) freshly Traxxion Dynamics overhauled and dialled in on his SV with just a week on it since rebuilding. It was PERFECT when installed on my SV per his instructions. I had spent about a year of time getting the feel of the suspension on the SV in racing and track days - and took about a buncha months before the XB was really working for me. I've just found that HP can't do what handling can. Off the racetrack, it's different but Paul was looking for racing hints and advice. He'll have good access to suspension setup help on the tracks up there and going back to his original question, that big bore kit from Hal's is excellent as long as the HP doesn't make him inelegible (thinking they're using power/weight formula, not displacement or configuration formula) Besides, if you CAN use a bigger motor, it's better to get HP by getting more cc's than it is by cranking up compression ratios and running weird cams and high test gasoline. (Message edited by slaughter on September 28, 2007) | ||
| Rfischer |
Paul, If you are an AMA pro racer then perhaps you should consider something other than a Buell [tho' I note there IS an XBRR for sale in the classifieds here]. If you are not, a "more competitive" bike - 1098 or whatever - isn't going to win races for you. What WILL win races, if you are able, is to ride a well set up bike to its full potential, without making mistakes. An SV can do that. In fact, if memory serves, the track record at NHIS [Louden] is or was held by Eric Wood on an SV650. So much for all the racey I4's and Duc's.... |
