| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
Different bikes and riders work better with different tires. I say let anyone who wants to provide tires do so. Let the racers cull them. | ||
| Jaimec |
See the interview with Hopkins? Even he said he "gave up." Once he saw what Stoner was doing in the straights on top of his cornering there was just no point. Second place seven seconds behind. Good to see Nicky on the podium again and it's too bad what happened to him and Hopkins at Laguna Seca. The only interesting thing now is to see who comes in second, or who is the fastest Michelin rider. Gotta find the competition where you can. I think AMA Superbike is far more interesting now. Mladin is now only 6 points adrift of Spies after winning the last four races. I think he smells the blood in the water! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that Ducati&Stoner would be leading the championship, on Michelin tires as well. Jerry Burgess said that the 800cc show all the weaknesses of the bike+rider+tires package and unless the whole package works at 100%, you cannot win. So let have a look at the teams running Michelin....... Hondas had problems this year with chassis, front end performance, and engine power. They really had a bad bike in the beginning of the season and all their riders were complaining. Yamaha had a decent chassis and their handling was OK. But their engine was really weak. So I do not think that Michelin and the tire rules, are all to blame...... | ||
| Trojan |
Well done Casey Stoner & Ducati. They obviously have the right package for this season and are making the most of it it seems. Having said that, the Czech GP was about as interesting as an F1 race, and I lost interest after around 3 laps to be honest. Even the TV director concentrated a huge amount of coverage on the battle for 9th-12th place, which tells its own story. Burgess said before the start that they were struggling with the Yamaha/Michelin package, and that showed up in the race with Rossi struggling to stay ahead of De Puniet for the entire race distance. Part of the problem at Yamaha is that they developed the bike over the winter to suit the Michelin tyres they had last year. Since that time they have been playing catch-up, and with Michelin changing the construction of their tyres at almost every round have never managed to get a setup that actually works as it should. Honda have suffered the same problems but now seem to be getting to the point of being competitive again (although still not in the same league as the top Bridgestone teams). I would rather watch the 250 or 125 races at the moment, as at least they are close & exciting  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I have the feeling that everyone is bashing Michelin at the moment. I personally think it is mainly a Yamaha problem. HRC is looking to have finally found the right direction for their 800cc. Burgess stated "Michelin is not the main reason Valentino is not winning at the moment" Maybe he is standing by their tire supplier ? What about the Yamaha's power and electronics ? Capirossi's GP7 made a very easy pass on Rossi's M1 down the straight. I think M1 is way down on power at the moment. This might be their main problem. Burgess recently said that a little bit of extra power is all it is missing from the M1. Listening to the M1's engine, it sounds like they kept the 'growler' firing order, like a big bang effect. This might be a wrong direction in the development of the 800cc. It is giving better mid range, but lacks top end power. At the same time the tire spins less and there is more usable power to the rider. All the 990cc bikes (except Suzuki)were using this firing order. Remember the troubles that Suzuki had after the middle of the race last year, when they were loosing their rear grip? Their screamer 990cc engine were wasting the rear tires. But Suzuki, last year, were saying that they were working on developing the 800cc bike. They thought that because of the reduced power of the 800cc engine, the tires would handle the power, so they were trying to get the max Hp from the engine. Ducati did the same for the 800cc. They went from a big bang 990cc engine to a screamer 800cc, relying on electronics to stop the rear tire from spinning. Yamaha will test a new engine now, with half the season already gone! So who should they to blame, but themselves?? Not even Vale's experience & talent can make up for their lack of bike development. Remember the first year of the 990cc era, and Vale on the RCV winning one race after the other?? Was that season interesting ?? I will remind you, that after the GP in China this year, you were saying the Stoner will not win another race in Europe, since the Ducati is not any good in the corners. The way Stoner is riding the GP7 is phenomenal. The rest of the Ducatis are not even close to his laptimes. Why is so hard to accept that he is in the best form in the motoGP at the moment? Why is it so hard to accept that Ducati has by far the best motoGP bike ?? | ||
| Tdiddy |
Whats the difference between a "Big Bang" and a "Screamer" engine? | ||
| Jaimec |
Capirossi passed Rossi easily because Rossi's tires had no grip. A "Screamer" engine is one that fires a different cylinder on each crank rotation, like every four cylinder street motorcycle sold. A "Big Bang" engine fires two or more cylinders together on the same stroke so the effect is more like a twin. This results in less overall horsepower, but it allows the tires to hook up between power pulses for more overall traction. The principle is based on why Harley Davidson RULED flat track racing for so long. All of the competitors were firing their cylinders on separate crank rotations so the tires never had a chance to hook up on the loose dirt surface properly. The XR750 fired both cylinders on the same rotation and then "freewheeled" through one rotation so the tire had a chance to hook up before the next power pulse. When Honda finally copied that firing order for their flat track racer they started winning races too. That philosophy was carried over to road racing where corner speed is often more important than straight line speed. The 800cc MotoGP bikes are pretty much "Screamers" whereas the 990cc MotoGP bikes were pretty much all "Big Bang." | ||
| Trojan |
Why is so hard to accept that he is in the best form in the motoGP at the moment? Why is it so hard to accept that Ducati has by far the best motoGP bike ?? I can accept both of the above quite easily, and already said that the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone package is the one to beat right now. I just get fed up with processional racing, regardless of who is winning/losing. As a spectator I want to see close racing and 6 second gaps between riders is not particularly entertaining to watch. I think most of the 141,000 spectators last weekend got more of a kick out of seeing a Czech rider take 3rd in the 125 race than any of the premier class performances. But then as Mick Doohan once said, 'What do you expect me to do, slow down?' Given that Stoner & Ducati are set to dominate the rest of the 07 season, maybe we should be looking to see who does not deserve to be racing in MotoGP nextyear and make room for more young challengers that can take the fight to Stoner? Personally I would boot out Kurtis & Kenny Roberts, Carlos Checa, Tamada, Nakano, Hofman, Elias (although I like his riding style) & Colin Edwards (sadly, but he has not performed to his best in 6 seasons and needs to go). There are lots of talented riders who deserve a chance at the big time and some of the above no longer deserve a place at the top table, regardless of sponsorship money etc. | ||
| Macbuell |
I agree Trojan. Far too many races this season seem to be over by the third lap. That's no fun at all. | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't think Rossi really wants to see Edwards go. My own personal opinion, but Colin appears to be one of the best "Wing men" in MotoGP. He knows his place and what he's expected to do, and there's no clash of egos (unlike on the Repsol team). Although Rossi will definitely miss him as a teammate, teaming him up with Toseland in '08 is a good move. Toseland will gain PLENTY of MotoGP knowledge from Edwards to fully prepare him for the '09 season when he will likely have a new team mate. Colin stated in an interview that after 2008 he'd like to do two more years in AMA Superbike before retiring from racing. He also stated he'd like to wind up his career racing for Yamaha, so you get the feeling that company knows how to take care of its people. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Capirossi passed Rossi easily because Rossi's tires had no grip." So, you are saying that the M1 and GP7 are producing the same amount of power?? No way! To put the "screamer" and "big-bang" issue to a more scientific-engineering perspective, it comes down to this : How close (timewise) the engine fires the pistons. When an engine has a small interval between firings it is a "screamer". IL4s have a piston firing every 180 degrees of crank rotation, which is very close to each other. Hence the screaming sound, from too many firings close to each other. When an engine has big intevals between firings it is a "big bang". For example our XBs are firing 405-315-405-315 degrees of crank rotation, which compared to the 180 degrees of crank rotation for the IL4s, gives twice the time between firings, at the same revs. Multi cylinder engines can be made "big-bang" if there are big intervals between firings. I think the first step for motoGP would be to take traction control out. I also agree that some of the veterans should be retired. I would like to see Toseland's impact on the motoGP. He is the first WSBK champion (2 times!!)to enter motoGP at his prime age. I hope that Yamaha will run A Bridgestone team with factory support. Coming back to the tire issue, the Bridgestones did not help the Gresini Honda, to make much of an impact this year. No win for them, and Melandri is having his worst season in 2 years. So basicaly it is not Bridgestones. Suzuki and Kawasaki are step by step improving their bikes. Especially Suzuki are having riders that at certain conditions (dry for Hopkins and wet for Vermulen) are flying. Ducati is by far the best motoGP bike. Stoner is riding like a "God" (Vale's words) It seems that HRC is also slowly finding the right direction. The new RCV was the only 800cc bike built from zero, so it makes sense for Honda to need more time to get it sorted. I am glad Nicky is showing them that he is their No1. So the competition for Vale is geting more and more intense. He can no longer just win races easily. Yamaha relaxed and thought that Vale's talent can win with an average bike from Yamaha. This proved a big mistake. Despite what most people think, I think this season is GREAT. We have Bridgestone, finally getting on the top, after so much efford. We have Suzuki and Kawasaki, finally coming up with bikes that can fight for wins and podiums, and not just take part in the race. We have Ducati finding Stoner, the next motoGP champion and producing an excellent motoGP bike, able to win many races at every track. Some "experts" used to say: Ducati is stupid to still use a trellis frame.... Ducati is stupid to use a 90o engine, making the bike too long, not good at the corners... Ducati is stupid to use desmodromic actuated valves. ...... What can they say now??? Thank you Casey Stoner for making all of us, the Ducati fans, proud. | ||
| Jaimec |
No, the M1 and the GP7 are NOT making the same horsepower. Everyone (including you) KNOWS the GP7 is making more power. But Rossi always carries the highest cornering speeds until his tires go off, and his tires had already started reaching their end when Capirossi passed him back. Read the interviews... everytime Rossi tried to accelerate the tires were spinning up; he had no traction. | ||
| Mcgiver |
Closer racing? Can you say spec. tire (sure works for world superbike, great racing.) Brian | ||
| Jaimec |
Yeah, I know... but MotoGP is also a terrific development laboratory so why shouldn't different tire manufacturers have a shot at developing tires for it? Eventually the knowledge they get from MotoGP trickles down to the street. Hopefully Michelin gets their act together next year and the racing gets closer again. Either that, or just make the one simple change that I suggested at the beginning of the year: Don't lock down the tire choices until AFTER the first practice. It's nuts to think everyone will make the right choices for tires without ever having set foot on the track, ESPECIALLY this year when they're all riding completely new machines! Last year's data is worthless. Bridgestone is having an easier time of it because, being situated in Japan, they got used to making intelligent choices BEFORE the race weekend. Michelin got spoiled because they always figured if they didn't get the tires right at the beginning they could always overnight NEW tires in from their factory. They can't do that anymore and they don't have Bridgestone's experience in making the long term guesses. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Hopefully Michelin gets their act together next year and the racing gets closer again." The Japs should get their act together. | ||
| Jimidan |
Just for the record: Regarding the wild speculations made earlier in this thread by the peanut gallery concerning, and I am paraphrasing here, "Nicky Hayden is the worst returning champion ever!", I think his recent performances and podium finishes pretty much disavows any such notion. It is always foolish to take a few races at the beginning and extrapolate the season from them. When will they ever learn? | ||
| Trojan |
It is always foolish to take a few races at the beginning and extrapolate the season from them. One swallow does not make a summer. In terms of season's performance so far he is the worst performing reigning champion since Kenny Roberts. I have a high regard for Nicky, but regardless of which slant you choose to put on his poor performances (Honda/Tyres/Aerodynamics/Nicky etc, thats the facts. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I say give Nicky some credit. His performance in the first races was really dissapointing, but I think it was not 100% his fault. HRC developed an entire new bike, that did not suit him at all. There is still time for him to prove himself once again, this season. But on the other hand, Hayden "dared" to "steal" the title from Vale. It is "normal" for some people to hate him. | ||
| Macbuell |
Lets look at the standings right now. Nicky is only 35 points out of fourth place in the standings with 6 races to go. Obviously Nicky's first half of the season was pretty horrible by all definitions. But, but if he finishes strong and finishes in the top 4, would it still be the worst performance by a former champion ever? I don't think so. (Message edited by MACBuell on August 21, 2007) | ||
| Trojan |
But, but if he finishes strong and finishes in the top 4, would it still be the worst performance by a former champion ever? I don't think so. Of course that would be a different story if it finishes up like that, but if Stoner falls out of bed and breaks his leg then Rossi could still win the championship ;) We can only look at results so far rather than speculating on what might happen. | ||
| Trojan |
TH MotoGP rider merry go round has reached fever pitch after Brno, with more and more teams naming their 2008 lineup. Jorge Lorenzo will lineup alongside Rossi in the same team and same garage next year. Cue fireworks Colin Edwards has been confirmed as Toselands team mate at Tech 3 Yamaha on a one year 'swansong' deal before heading back to AMA SUperbike in 2009. Sylvain Guintoli has signed to replace Alex Hofman at D'Antin Ducati. I thought that Chaz Davies had done enough at Laguna to be in with a chance of that ride, so it is a shame for him although I am pleased for Guintoli. Shinya Nakano is strongly favoured to be going back to Kawasaki to partner John Hopkins. This in spite of his barbed comments about the team when he left last year, and the current good form of both Anthony West and Randy De Puniet. There is no justice in the world... Andrea Dovizioso will move up from 250GP to the Minolta Honda team in place of Nakano. Dovizioso will bring enough sponsorship money with him to enable the team to continue in MotoGP if Minolta pull out as expected. Careless Chucca is tipped to replace Toseland at Ten Kate Honda WSB. I only hope they have a good stock of spare bodywork available. | ||
| Jaimec |
I've noticed you don't hold Checa in high regard, Matt. I don't remember him crashing out all that much this year? I'm surprised Kawasaki isn't considering Nicky's kid brother to ride alongside John Hopkins (for an All-American squad) considering how well he did at Laguna Seca. PS: At this point in time I think it'll take more than just a busted leg to stop Casey Stoner... (Message edited by jaimec on August 22, 2007) | ||
| Trojan |
I've noticed you don't hold Checa in high regard, Matt. I don't remember him crashing out all that much this year? I have never really rated Checa, but he has lots of money and stays in top(ish) teams because of that I think. Personally I think he passed his sell by date a long time ago and should have been axed years ago instead of hanging around the paddock like a bad smell. Now it seems he has landed the top ride in WSB even though there are many younger, more hungry and more talented riders banging on the door to get a foot into the big time. He has more than a few crashes this year in both practice and races, most of which have been completely unforced errors by him. It kind of annoys me that riders such as Checa manage to get quality rides year after year without backing it up with decent performances, yet other riders such as Chaz Davies, Antony West, Neil Hodgson, Ruben Xaus, Shane Byrne and many others get binned after just one year (or less) without getting the chance to show their talent properly. MotoGP really does need a shake up if it isn't to become very boring very soon, and one thing that would make it better is to demote the worst performing 6 riders each season (not necessarily the bottom 6 in the series), and replace them with the top 2 from 250GP, WSB and 2 wild cards. That would shake things up a bit and woud ensure that only the very best riders in the world are competing in the premier class | ||
| Vagelis46 |
For sure, some current motoGP veterans, should be replaced by younger riders. But, the fact that some riders are British do not make them top motoGP material. I understand the need for a Brit rider in motoGP and I think Toseland is joining at the right moment. He really deserves to be in motoGP. I hope he does well next year. Hodgson, Byrne had their chances. A satellite Honda bike ,was definatelly not a quality ride for Nakano and Checa. I think both of them regreted leaving the Kawasaki&Bridges and Yamaha&Dunlop. Actually Checa was really impressive last year on the M1, that is why he got the Honda deal. I personally rate Checa as a rider. He never really complains and always tries for the best. But I still think that WSBK is a good place for Checa next year. The fact that at his age he still wants to stay in the racing schene, is impressive to me. | ||
| Trojan |
But, the fact that some riders are British do not make them top motoGP material. I understand the need for a Brit rider in motoGP and I think Toseland is joining at the right moment. He really deserves to be in motoGP. I hope he does well next year. Hodgson, Byrne had their chances. Most of the examples I gave happened to be British because they just happen to be names that I am very familiar with. I think you'll see that there are lots of very talented riders from all over the world who have never had the chance (or at least a fair chance) in MotoGP despite their skills. If you think that Hodgson & Byrne were given competitive enough equipment to show their obvious level of talent, or even the time to settle in to the MotoGP series, then I think you must have been watching a different championship than me. A satellite Honda bike ,was definatelly not a quality ride for Nakano and Checa. They get the same equipment as Elias & Melandri, and both of them have made a better job this year than Checa, despite being hampered by injury all too often. Checa had a works Ducati in 2005 and didn't really impress with that did he? Checa's record speaks for itself: He has been in GP's since 1993 (including 1/2 a season on a 125 and a period on a 250). During that time he has won just two races, had 3 pole positions and 24 podium finishes. His best championship position was 4th back in 1998 and since then he has just made up the numbers. I like Carlos Checa as a person. He lived around 10 miles from me in North Yorkshire for years when he raced for Yamaha, so is an adoptive Brit anyway. The fact is though that he has kept his place in GP by virtue of being rich and being Spanish. I personally rate Checa as a rider. He never really complains and always tries for the best. But I still think that WSBK is a good place for Checa next year. The fact that at his age he still wants to stay in the racing schene, is impressive to me. I am 49 and still want to race, I wouldn't complain at all if I had a semi factory Honda and I would always try my best....But that wouldn't make me a world championship contender either | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Bayliss did not impress much with the factory Ducati. And when he moved to the Camel Honda, it was a disaster for him. Is he a bad rider?? Definately not. He might just not be top motoGP material like e.g. Stoner. I think this was the case with Checa, and the fact that he could find money & sponsors kept him in the series. Now it is time for him to move on. Good luck Carlos.... I also agree that the motoGP class should be kept to the absolute top level of riders. But with amount of money involved, I do not think that this is possible. I would like to think that eventualy all the potential super stars, are given the chance to show their talent. Unfortunately motorcycle racing requires a lot of money, so being rich helps a lot of people. It is not like football, where a poor kid from Brasil or Africa can become a super star, and end up in Liverpool FC . I am sure that if Checa was British you would not talk like that about him. The fact that there are still teams willing to give him a ride, speaks for itself. HRC asked him to ride in Suzuka, and he managed to qualify really well. I think HRC knows how good or bad Checa is. I am sure that if Hodgon and Byrne were Spanish you would would not rate them as much. Toseland is definatelly on a different level than these two, so a motoGP opportunity is given to him. Would you bet that Toseland will do better than Checa in motoGP? I personally hope so, but I would not be sure. Do you think that it is definatelly impossible for Checa to become WSBK champion next with Ten Kate. I do not think so, but it is a possibility. I would actually really like to see a leas favourite veteran manage to do something like that. I also wish Capirex gets a motoGP championsip with Suzuki next year...... | ||
| Trojan |
I am sure that if Hodgon and Byrne were Spanish you would would not rate them as much. Toseland is definatelly on a different level than these two, so a motoGP opportunity is given to him. I would rate both of them highly even if they were Mongolian Yak herders. Hodgson has shown plenty of times that given equal machinery he is more than a match for Toseland, and I think he was given a bad deal in MotoGp and was in the wrong place at the wrong time unfortunately. Neil is also being talked about as a replacement for Toseland at Ten Kate along with Checa. Byrne may be different and we'll never really know how good he might have been. I would talk about Checa in exactly the same way if he were British. Nationality isn't an uissue with me, although it obviously is and has been for a while for Dorna and the MotoGP organisers. Being Spanish has been a decided advantage for a few years, and with Dorna running the Spanish 125 & 250 championships as well it doesn't look like that will change any time soon. The only recognised route into 125GP racing these days is to do the Spanish championship first. I would like to see Josh Herrin, Josh Hayes, Ben Spies and other young American riders in MotoGP. I would also like to see Kenan Sofuoglu in either MotoGP or at least WSB next year. It will be an absolute travesty if Checa gets the Ten Kate ride instead of him. There are plenty of fast German/French/Scandinavian riders who will never even get a chance to test a MotoGP bike but would be very capable of doing better than some of the 'rent-a-riders' currently filling seats. | ||
| Jaimec |
Other than Miguel DuHamel, there seems to be a real dearth of Canadians in professional motorcycle racing. Wonder why? | ||
| Davegess |
Not many Canadians period | ||
| Jaimec |
There IS a Canadian Superbike series, not that you hear that much about it. |
