| Author | Message | ||
     Heads |
And to think people said Stoner wouldnt be consistant enough to be threat in this championship. Have i mentioned my prediction i made last year.. just a little sarcasim for those people(they know who they are) who keep bagging Stoner  | ||
| Jaimec |
Congratulations especially to John Hopkins who FINALLY ended his long podium drought! Well earned third place for the Hopper! Suzuki has finally given him competitive equipment and he's got no place to go but up! Elias once again proves he's a menace to himself and others... | ||
| Rocketman |
Stoner for me should have cut Rossi loose if he's so good. As it was Rossi and Hopkins showed their brilliance by staying within fighting distance of the much faster Ducati. And Rossi set the fastest lap. Stoner for me will have to work harder as the tracks that don't favour the Ducati's phenomenal speed down the straights come along. That is where Stoner won toady's race - on the straights. Good as Stoner is my money's on Rossi taking the title. Speaking of Rossi. He rode the wheels off that Yamaha today. Leaving the track with that little skirmish 5 laps from the end would have seen lesser men on the floor or a lot further back after rejoining. Hopkins is the next American champion, if ever there is one to come from the current crop. I said he was better than Hayden last year, and he's not proven me wrong. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Matt, I would be curious to hear your opinions of what tracks \ races from now on will and won't favour the Ducati's awesome performance. Such revelations might help me work out the point scoring maths involved in winning the championship, lol. Consider my asking, a sort of Fantasy MotoGP! Rocket | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Stoner has a good title chance. The kid is super...Hayden got the title last year with 2 wins. Stoner already has 3. So, he can do it. Especially if Capirex helps him by finishing in front of Rossi in some races. Can Capirex do it? Yes, he has done it last year at Brno, Japan, Jerez. OK, Ducati is lacking in the corners..... but Stoner's phenomenal performance helps Ducati to get good results at tracks they usually have problems with the riders they had so far (Capirossi, Checa, Bayliss, Gibernau). So what happens when they race at tracks they are usually strong, and Capirex won last year? So far Ducati has won at tracks that last year they had big problems. So YES, at last, Ducati has a TOP rider (Stoner) and YES they have a title chance. For me it is incredible that Stoner is so faster than Capirossi. Capirossi has been riding Ducati&Bridgestones for 4 years. Stoner is in his first year with Ducati&Bridgestone and he has won 3 out of 4 races. | ||
| Heads |
Vagelis46: according to Rocketman Stoner would be lucky to beat capirossi home in the championship this year. hahaha you contradict yourself rocket...you say, stoner for me should have cut rossi loose if he is so good...then you say good as stoner is my money's on rossi.. I once heard someone say he would ultimately be judged by his performances against his team mate. One thing i do agree with you rocket is hopkins ability i hope he does well. | ||
| Rocketman |
stoner for me should have cut rossi loose if he is so good... But Stoner didn't - despite an obvious speed advantage down the longest straight in MotoGP. then you say good as stoner is my money's on rossi.. Stoner is good. When and where have I said otherwise? He's just not Rossi good. Never will be. So where's the contradiction? Rocket | ||
| Heads |
you are the one that said it go read your own post. i agree never will be as good as rossi like you say. rossi now isnt as good as rossi 2 or 3 years ago either in my opinion but there is 3 or 4 riders now that is as good as him which has been shown in the last 12 months or so.. now go and read a couple of post ago where you said Stoner for me should have cut Rossi loose if he's so good. As it was Rossi and Hopkins showed their brilliance by staying within fighting distance of the much faster Ducati. And Rossi set the fastest lap.} | ||
| Rocketman |
If you are suggesting I'm saying Stoner is better than Capirossi, then you are very much mistaken. Is this what you assume is my contradiction? Capirossi might have had a poor start to the season compared to his young upcoming team mate, which is unfortunate, as Capirossi is one of the few racers who has proper mixed it up with Rossi and shown how much of a seasoned racer, well accomplished in the art of race craft he is. Capirossi's luck isn't running. If it were, Stoner would not be the leading Ducati at the moment. Stoner has shown he can lead from the front and pass on the straights, but Rossi has had him and passed him in the corners several times these past three races. Stoner is good, no doubt, but against Rossi the Ducati is the vast majority of Stoner's winning performance. but there is 3 or 4 riders now that is as good as him [Rossi] which has been shown in the last 12 months or so Care to name them? Rocket | ||
| Heads |
Rocket you say:Stoner for me should have cut Rossi loose if he's so good. so there you are saying he is'nt so good cause he did'nt cut Rossi loose. then you say: Good as Stoner is my money's on Rossi taking the title. to me thats a contradiction, that is what i was refering too. and you have made statements about capirossi and stoner and he has'nt proved anything till he can compete with his own team mate they are'nt your exact words but im sure i could find the post. Pedrosa,stoner,hopkins on a competitive bike. | ||
| Jaimec |
Heads: Those three you name are good, but they are not in Rossi's league. AS Rocket has pointed out... without the Ducati's straight line speed Stoner would NEVER have beaten Rossi. Rossi's bike has nearly a 10 mph top speed deficit compared to the Ducati and yet he's taken it to Stoner in every single race this season EXCEPT for Qatar (where he experienced tire failure). Of the three you've named I think only Pedrosa has taken Rossi in the turns... and Rossi's taken it back nearly every time. I think only Sete Gibernau (at his peak) was any real competition for Rossi, but he burned out and Rossi's still going. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The Ducati is powerful, but it is not good at tight corners. It was the same last year as well. In some tracks Capirossi was not able to go for the podium. Remember Laguna, Donington, etc....? But this year with the 800cc, since HP has dropped, Ducatis power advantage is more obvious. But at the same time the problem of Ducati at tight corners is also obvious. So you have a Powerful bike (Ducati) fighting against a very flickable bike (Yamaha). Ho will win in the end? I does not really matter. As long as the racing is close, let the best win. Ducati uses a V-4 90 degrees that makes the bike's wheelbase long. Yamaha uses an IL-4 that makes the bike's wheelbase short. So we have 2 different approaches to motorcycle engineering. Great! So if the Yamaha is better at the corners than Ducati, it is not entirely up to Rossi. His M1 helps as well. What is important to me, is Stoner's ability to make the Ducati bike working reasonably well at the corners, and then use its speed to win races. So far he is the first rider to manage that for Ducati. And this is a fact. | ||
| Jaimec |
Vagelis: There are FOUR Yamahas on the grid, yet only ONE of them consistently fights at the front. Is it the bike, or the rider? I'm saying it's the rider... | ||
| Blake |
Stoner is rocking and rolling and taking no prisoners. It would be foolish for him to risk a mistake or worse yet a crash just to push more than necessary to win the race by a larger margin. It was clear that Rossi and his Yam/Michelins had nothing for Stoner and his Duc/Bridgestones. Go Stoner/Ducati!  How wonderful will it be for Ducati to win the MotoGP World championship! Woohoo! I just hope Stoner can maintain his consistency. How smart is it to set up a bike for optimum top speed and drive off the turns at a track like Shanghai? Pretty darn smart! Ducati is rockin' MotoGP! I don't expect Rossi and his Yamaha team to sit still, but if Rossi has to ride to the limit just to try to make a pass like he did in Shanghai against Stoner, he will not likely have a chance at another championship. He's darn lucky to not have crashed out. Very bad luck for Nick Hayden, a victim of Elias' impatience.  It's strange that some put others absent Hayden up on par with Rossi in skill and racecraft, but Hayden beat them all last year. That seems to be to be ignoring the facts. Hopkins has a lot of talent, but has yet to prove himself consistent. I hope he and Stoner both prove their consistency/maturity this year and make it an ever more interesting MotoGP championship competition. How refreshing that for two years running the championship is no longer the Valentino Rossi show! Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE Rossi fan. But I sure like to see him having to really push and fight for his victories. What a great sport! | ||
| Jaimec |
Hopkins hasn't had competitive equipment till this year. Now that Suzuki has FINALLY given him something capable of running at the front his fortunes will improve. Now that we're back on the tighter tracks, Stoner won't have quite as easy a time as he's had so far. I predict Rossi will be back in the driver's seat in no time. | ||
| Jimidan |
I agree that it is refreshing to see the series as competitive as it is...great for the fans. It looked to me that Nicky wasn't going to be a factor in this last race regardless of Elias's parody of Dani Pedrosa. Shucks he was a full 1.5 seconds down in his times. It seems that with the smaller displacement and heavier bikes this year that rider weight has much more to do with race results than in previous years. Stoner and Dani Pedrosa are little guys who weigh just over 100 lbs. If you look at the top speeds of the bikes above, the little guys are right up at the top. Stoner is better on this Ducati than his teammate Loris because he weighs less. Dani is better on this bike than Nicky for the some of the same reasons (104lbs vs. 150lbs.), although it goes deeper than that for Honda. The bike was built for the new generation of jockey sized boys like Dani, so the fairings on Nicky's bike had to be redesigned just to get him out of the wind. I would be surprised to see Nicky do much of anything on this bike, something Honda seemed to be trying to bring to fruition. Rossi is another rider who is 'too big' for the smaller displacement bikes, although he is so freakin' good, he makes up for it with sheer talent...and the fact that Yammy stands behind their man. He rode the wheels off of that Yammy yesterday, and very nearly pulled it off. Like he says though, it is a long season. Even in defeat, you could see that Rossi loves a challenge. I have always been a big fan of Casey Stoner...because I are one, and I vote!  (Message edited by jimidan on May 07, 2007) (Message edited by jimidan on May 07, 2007) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Vagelis: There are FOUR Yamahas on the grid, yet only ONE of them consistently fights at the front. Is it the bike, or the rider? I'm saying it's the rider..." There are 4 Ducatis on the grid in 4 races, and so far only STONER is winning while the others( with some exceptions) are in trouble. Is it the Ducati or Stoner? I say it is BOTH. "How refreshing that for two years running the championship is no longer the Valentino Rossi show! " That sums up to 120% what I think as well. Most of the people say :"Some riders (Stoner, Pedrosa, Elias) benefited from the switch to 800cc, and others has trouble adapting (Melandri, Hayden, Capirossi)" I think this is not true. I think that the riders that seem to ride better on the 800cc, they do it because they have more experience now and they are staring to show their talent since they are getting more confident. 1. Stoner. Last year was his 1st year. He did what Rossi did in his first year at 500cc. He was looking for his/bike limits and so he had a few crashes, while being very fast. 2. Elias. After the battle and victory against Rossi at Estoril, his confidence took off. The same happened at Laguna 2 years ago when Hayden won his first race, and after that he become from a talented rider to race winner and finally champion. For me, this year the only riders that are having trouble adapting to 800cc are HONDA riders. It is not the riders, it is the BIKE that has problems. Honda totally blew it. Their bike seems to lack in power and in handling. Hayden last year was making development work for the 800cc. So why is he complaining now?? Why?? Because once again Honda with its stupidity, decided to developed a bike based to the Jap engineers and not based on the feedback of their top and more experienced rider. But Hayden should have known that. This was the reason Rossi left Honda. This is the way HRC wants to race. I leave Capirossi last for 4 reasons : 1. I really rate him as a rider and as a person, so to see him not winning, is not good. 2. He also struggled at these tracks last year. (with the exception of Jerez), so maybe it is too early for conclusions. 3. He had personal issues ( with his wife and their new born child) that could have distructed him. For some people their wife's support is very important. So maybe without her presence at the races, he loses his confidence 4. He is getting old. 34 is not 21! | ||
| Heads |
Jaimec:my point is rossi isnt as good as he was a few years ago,the riders i name havent come up to rossi skill, rossi has lost something and now are as good as him. Jaimec: so you are saying pederosa is the only rider to pass rossi but then he has been passed back by rossi, are you sure. people say stoner is only there from straight line speed well maybe but he is the best ducati rider in the field capirossi has nothing on him. fair enough he has been unlucky in races but im talking the whole picture testing,practice,qualifying,race. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket you say:Stoner for me should have cut Rossi loose if he's so good. so there you are saying he is'nt so good cause he did'nt cut Rossi loose. then you say: Good as Stoner is my money's on Rossi taking the title. So as you can better understand your mother tongue my Colonial friend. Someone, in this case Stoner, can be good. Saying they (Stoner) aren't as good as someone else, in this case Rossi, is neither a contradiction nor an accusation of someone (Stoner) not being good. Stoner is good. Just not Rossi good. But then who is? So please learn our language if you're intent on putting words in my mouth, lol. Blake, you're wrong about Stoner not pushing. He too was on his limit keeping that Ducati ahead of Rossi. Such was clear to see before Stoner crossed the finish line. Stoner took a look back, obviously to see where Rossi was. Stoner didn't have a clue how close or far away Rossi was through those last few corners. That for me is a clear indication of how hard Stoner had been racing. At least that's the race I watched. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Then, you no watch good. Here is the irrefutably iron-clad evidence: Stoner ran wide or off the track not once. Rossi did so repeatedly. Rossi was therefore pushing much much harder than Stoner. I win. You lose. Proving once again that I am your master in all things. Bow down to me and grovel for you are unworthy.  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Stoner also saw Rossi go off track and couldn't be sure how far back he dropped after that. Knowing that Rossi ran off he had no indication of how far behind Hopkins was now running. I'd have looked back too! Both men ran a HARD race. The Duc simply out pulled everyone on the straights. Rossi could not gain enough in the corners to overcome the hp advantage. the gonzo late braking maneuvers were proof of the gambles Rossi felt he needed to take to make up for it. I wish the spell checker didn't keep highlighting "Rossi" as mis-spelled. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rossi was therefore pushing much much harder than Stoner. I don't doubt that for a moment - but only like Rossi, and no one else, could. Rossi might have had a chance at winning if not for the 'off' with 5 laps remaining. For nigh on 10 laps Rossi was clearly working hard on his race craft to find every possible track advantage to marry up to his skills. That is why Rossi 'repeatedly' ran wide etc. He was searching for something it seems only he is capable of finding. All the more remarkable when one takes into account the length of that straight and Ducati's blistering pace along it. Everyone else simply would not have bothered. Well, everyone but Hopper it seems! Rocket | ||
| Heads |
Rocketman: ohh you are a touchy lil fella lighten up bro.hahaha i know im a colonial and all but i speak aussie thats probably where you are having a understanding problem. and im not putting words in your mouth everything i typed in my post you said. back to subject i think rossi will still be hard to beat this year when they move to europe.. but stoner is 100% better than he was last year he has matured and is staying upon two wheels for now anyway. Rocket you and Trojan had such hard words to say about him, now he is doing a good job im praising him thats what we colonials do.lol | ||
| Tdiddy |
I went riding on Sunday. I wish I waited to see the race on Speed. There race report spent 5 minutes on MOTO GP. 45 on NASCAR. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that the next critical race is Muggelo. IF Stoner beats Rossi at Muggelo (Rossi's home race), he will get the championship. I just want to see Ducati win the MOTOGP title this year. I think that Stoner did not push 100% of the cornering ability of the bike at China. And that was the team's choice. He said that Ducati chose hard tires not to take a risk, and use the Ducati power to win. So to manage to stay in front of Rossi at the corners, with no mistakes, was pretty difficult and says a lot for his riding skills, his confidence, and the Ducati bike. Stoner pushed hard at Qatar, and he managed the fastest lap of the race on the final lap. Rossi could not keep up with him in the final laps. | ||
| Rocketman |
Ducati went too early. Second row for Stoner. I don't see Stoner getting away from the pack tomoz. Stoner was using the kerb through one corner just totally weaving and holding the power right on. Spectacular. When Stoner was coming through the field the Ducati was well tight in the corners. I too thought Stoner was lacklustre until the end, Well I saw Stoner's Ducati cornering down the inside of a few Hondas toward the end of the race, Stoner for me should have cut Rossi loose if he's so good. As it was Rossi and Hopkins showed their brilliance by staying within fighting distance of the much faster Ducati. And Rossi set the fastest lap. Stoner for me will have to work harder as the tracks that don't favour the Ducati's phenomenal speed down the straights come along. That is where Stoner won toady's race - on the straights. Good as Stoner is my money's on Rossi taking the title. Rocket you..... had such hard words to say about him ???????? Really Heads? Which ones exactly? Was it this comment of mine that got your knickers in a twist? If Rossi hadn't had a tyre problem he would have won today. His speed and skill were clear to see, until his tyre problem occurred. He was closing on Stoner lap after lap after his run off the track. Coz to be honest, I'm confused as to why anyone reading my posts could assume such ridiculous ideas regarding what I think of Stoner's, or anyone else's racing for that matter. I report what I see, and to be honest there is but one rider still above everyone else, and everyone else follows, even if they are in front of him. Now that is a contradiction. Or is it an oxymoron? Hell, I confused myself  Rocket | ||
| 12r |
A recent press article outlined why the Ducati is so fast: "Casey Stoner currently enjoys a 9mph top-speed advantage over Valentino Rossi, which suggests his 202mph Duke makes at least 20bhp more than Yamaha's M1. True, horsepower isn't all that matters in racing, so Ducati won't win everything this year, but such a big performance differential is unprecedented at the sharp end of MotoGP. So how come Ducati managed to make their rival engine designers look so stupid? This year's MotoGP rules (180cc less engine capacity and one litre less in the fuel tanks) make horsepower and fuel consumption more crucial than they were with the 990s. Within these restrictions Ducati's 800 V-four is more efficient because it uses desmodromic valves and an evenly spaced firing sequence. Ducati's own system of valve actuation is very friction efficient, and since friction increases exponentially with revs, desmo-contolled valves are a bigger advantage with an 18,000rpm 800 than with a 16,000rpm 990. But the GP7s killer feature is its even-firing sequence. All the other factories run some kind of big-bang firing order. A big-bang engine bunches power pulses together to improve traction and tyre life. However, big bang is not efficient in pure engineering terms. Ducati are the only people who surmised that they'd get the best power output and fuel consumption if they used an even firing order. They didn't worry about traction and tyre life because traction control has improved so dramatically in recent seasons that the electronics look after that side of things." It appears that the big-bang 800s may be more inefficient and are detuned slightly so that they don't run out of fuel. De Puniet was using a new crank on Sunday and seemed much faster than ususal. Ducati also have two long-standing technical partners in Shell and Magneti Marelli. Both have helped Ducati in the past with innovative solutions. It was also very noticeable during the head-on shots on Sunday's race just how tall the Yamaha is compared to the Ducati. Rossi is about 5'10" - 5'11" and it's clear that the aerodynamics of the M1 have been compromised because of this. The frontal area of the GP7 is noticeably smaller in comparison. Honda seem to have taken the mass-centralisation concept to extremes and sacrificed top-end aerodynamics in favour of agility. | ||
| Trojan |
I was away all weekend and missed the race unfortunately, but just looking at the results shows that there are a couple of major factors at work here. 1. None of the Japanese manufacturers have managed to bridge the horsepower (and aerodynamics) gap that Ducati are currently enjoying. 2. Michelin are still struggling to stay on terms with Bridgestone, which seem to suit the 800 bikes better. 3. Those who think that Rossi is less of a rider than 3 years ago are mistaken. This year the Yamaha is struggling just as much as the other Michelin shod teams, and you only have to look at the other Yamaha riders results to see just how hard Rossi is still riding today. He is still fighting for the lead at every race despite being down on power and tyre performance. I think that the pendulum will swing back in favour of the Michelin teams when we get the series back to Europe, and would expect to see the Yamaha & Hondas back at the top at places like France, the UK and Holland especially. I take nothing away from Stoner though, he has matured a lot since last year and will be hard to beat all year unless the other factories come up with a lot more speed. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The article you post is from BIKE, right? Is it valid ? Because I have read somewhere else that all the 800cc engines are screamers. Ducati is definately screamer. I think Suzuki also uses a screamer engine. Last year it was definately a screamer engine too. I was at the GP in Turkey and it sounded crystal clear screamer. They were the only factory with a screamer 990cc, since they were getting ready for the 800cc. I do not know about the M1, if it is a big bang or screamer. But in China, Rossi passed Hopkins on the straight. Hopkins is not a small guy. So the M1 had no problem with the screamer GSVR, in top speed. So Rossi has a problem with ONLY Stoner's Ducati. Not with Capirossi, Barros, Hoffman Ducati. Why? Because Stoner is a very fast rider, and he uses the advantage of his Desmo Ducati. I remember a few years ago, the Japs were saying that Desmo is useless, Desmo has no advantage in the performance of the engine and that it just adds complexity in the design. What are they saying about Desmo now? I have read an article that Ferrari is thinking using desmo in F1, since some engineers think that it is superior to pneumatically driven valves. So if some Jap factories are still using springs for closing the valves in MotoGP engines, they obviously have a performance problem, since they cannot make the engine reach high RPM. Ducati reached 19.200rpm in China. That is a pretty amazing engineering accomplishment. Desmo's designer, Mr Taglioni, must be very proud for his innovation. Unfortunately he is not alive to see how succesfull his design is. I hope he is smiling in the sky. | ||
| Heads |
Rocket these ones i was refering too. Like Vermulen, Stoner will disappoint just as much. Without that Italian bike beneath him, Stoner would have been blitzed by several others. 2007 has only just begun. Rocket and this one. Stoner has to beat the likes of Rossi, Pedrosa and Melandri to name but three super quick and talented riders, but first of all his biggest rival must surely be his own team mate. So that is how I will judge him. Do I see Stoner beating Capirossi throughout the season? No has to be the answer. If I'm wrong it will be for one of two reasons. Capirossi will have a poor season through no fault of his own, or Stoner becomes a real sensation. As for Hopper, I've always said he's the best and fastest American on the grid, but then again, he is half English Rocket |
