| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Battle of the Troys in first practice: http://tinyurl.com/2755zv It's really gonna be tough for Ducati to convince the powers-that-be that the 999 is not competitive if Bayliss continues embarrassing most of the grid on it. I'm surprised Biaggi was down so low... | ||
| Jaimec |
Yep... that old Ducati 999 is just such a SLUG! http://tinyurl.com/2gjk65 | ||
| Rocketman |
If you look closely you'll notice it was a 'wet session'. That would explain the large time difference between the top 9 (Biaggi) times. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Dry track, Bayliss still takes the pole: http://tinyurl.com/yqf43j Should be exciting tomorrow. I understand there was a brief run-in between Bayliss and Biaggi yesterday the ended up with a "hand gesture" from Bayliss. Anyone know what that was about? Or was it just Max being himself? | ||
| Rocketman |
By Rob Hull World Superbikes 31 March 2007 16:19 Troy Bayliss will start tomorrow’s World Superbike races at Donington Park from the pole positon spot, after a faultless Superpole lap just moments ago – boosted when his main rival for the honour Troy Corser crashed out. Bayliss set a scintillating 1.30.37 best, inside the existing Superbike record set by Gregorio Lavilla, to head the front row from Nori Haga, Regis Laconi, and Brit series leader James Toseland. On his lap, Hannspree Honda star Toseland looked on it from the first turn, and set hearts racing by coming within inches of the grass down Craner as he tried to eke out a solid early lap time, knowing that the Melbourne Loop has been a weak point for his Honda so far this weekend. Despite maintaining a leading time for the first two sectors, Toseland lost nearly 0.4s on then-leader Nori Haga in the Loop alone to finish with a 1.31.99 best, fractions ahead of works Ducati man Lorenzo Lanzi who starts fifth, and Ruben Xaus on an 06-spec works 999 in sixth. Meanwhile pole favourite Corser will start tomorrow’s races from eighth, after he uncharacteristically crashed on his lap, losing the front on the entry to Redgate just moments into his lap. He was unhurt, and is still certain to be a factor in the races. Suzuki star Max Biaggi, in only his third Superpole, set an opening sector time that was inside the previous best, but he lost time in the middle sector of the lap where Haga had been so fast and yet more in the Melbourne Loop final section where many riders are stuggling. He starts seventh. Haga started early in the session, setting only the ninth best time in qualifying, yet despite a slide on the opening sector which saw him down on the previous best, he recovered to set a new session best nearly a second faster than the existing best which proved second quickest overall. It was enough to keep him ahead by 0.15s of France’s Regis Laconi who has been solidly setting a strong pace all weekend on his ZX-10R. His team-mate Fonsi Nieto starts 10th. Suzuki Germany’s Max Neukirchner starts from the third row, setting 11th in Superpole on his ‘K6’ GSX-R1000, which is actually a 2005-spec works bike. Giovanni Bussei headed the field out as 16th fastest in normal qualifying, and improved to 12th on his 06-spec Ducati 999, which he is driving to races towed behind a car. Next behind Bussei was Italian compatriot Michel Fabrizio and his Aussie DFX Corse team-mate Steve Martin. Martin is only racing after a last-minute cash injection and by calling in favours when the team thought they had lost a sponsor two weeks ago. Meanwhile it was a disastrous session for Toseland’s team-mate Robby Rolfo, who suffered some kind of machine problem on his out lap and ran off the track into the gravel at the Melbourne Loop. Rolfo at least was able to paddle the bike out of the gravel, more than could be said for Aussie rider Josh Brookes, who folded the front at speed at the fast left Schwantz corner, leaving his Alto Evolution Honda battered and bruised. His team-mate Karl Muggeridge put in a solid lap, to secure nith. on the grid for tomorrow’s races. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
Toseland takes race one from Corser  Bayliss goes out on lap 5! Go James!! MotoGP next year for sure 1 Toseland J. Hannspree Ten Kate Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 35'28.222 23 2 Corser T. Yamaha Motor Italia. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'29.590 23 3 Biaggi M. Alstare Suzuki Corona Extra. Suzuki GSX-R1000 K7 35'30.670 23 4 Haga N. Yamaha Motor Italia. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'37.471 23 5 Lanzi L. Ducati Xerox Team. Ducati 999 F07 35'46.250 23 6 Nieto F. Kawasaki PSG-1 Corse. Kawasaki ZX-10R 35'47.178 23 7 Laconi R. Kawasaki PSG-1 Corse. Kawasaki ZX-10R 35'58.220 23 8 Neukirchner M. Suzuki Germany. Suzuki GSX-R1000 K6 35'58.518 23 9 Rolfo R. Hannspree Ten Kate Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 35'58.747 23 10 Smrz J. Team Caracchi Ducati SC. Ducati 999 F05 36'04.883 23 11 Muggeridge K. Alto Evolution Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 36'07.611 23 12 Brookes J. Alto Evolution Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 36'16.267 23 13 Fabrizio M. D.F.X. Corse. Honda CBR1000RR 36'19.512 23 14 Bussei G. Team Sterilgarda. Ducati 999 F06 36'19.624 23 15 Ellison D. Team Pedercini. Ducati 999RS 36'28.378 23 16 Morelli L. Team Pedercini. Ducati 999RS 35'29.322 22 17 Nakatomi S. Yamaha YZF. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'33.524 22 18 Zanotti A. SMT Yamaha. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'56.402 22 19 Martin S. D.F.X. Corse. Honda CBR1000RR 36'44.697 18 20 Xaus R. Team Sterilgarda. Ducati 999 F06 32'33.068 21 21 Zaiser C. LBR Racing Team. MV Agusta F4 312 R 18'14.912 11 22 Polita A. Celani Team Suzuki Italia. Suzuki GSX-R1000 K6 15'42.994 10 23 Bayliss T. Ducati Xerox Team. Ducati 999 F07 7'42.426 5 | ||
| Trojan |
Bayliss was taken to hospital after his race one crash, having lost most of the little finger on his right hand. It is 'unlikely' that he will make race two but I wouldn't put it past him to try. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
What do you think of James Toseland ? Is he MotoGP material? One think is for sure, Britain & the MotoGP, needs a British rider! I guess there will be a Honda ride for him next year. Repsol maybe? Unless Hayden improves dramatically ........ | ||
| Trojan |
Toseland is not regarded as the most naturally talented rider there is, but he has worked harder than anybody to reach and stay at the top. I remember when he raced in the Honda CB500 cup here in the UK and was accused of cheating, simply because he was so much quicker than everyone elses identical bike. Personally I think he would be excellent GP material and a definite front runner on the right bike. He was offered the D'Antin Ducati ride this year but turned it down to stay with Ten Kate Honda, and it is no secret that he is a favourite of the Honda factory bosses at the moment. I don't know if Nicky Hayden has a contract in place for 2008 yet, but on current form I think he should start worrying about his place in the team. Toseland has already been linked to Gresini and the LCR satellite teams, but I think he is more likely to either stay with Ten Kate if they move into GP's, or get a place on the official works Repsol team. And let's face it, that is unlikely to be at Pedrosa's cost. James unfortunately suffered mechanical failure in race two this afternoon, but still leads the series by 5 points from Biaggi, who finished second to Nori Haga in a last corner fight to the flag. 1 Haga N. Yamaha Motor Italia. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'26.734 23 2 Biaggi M. Alstare Suzuki Corona Extra. Suzuki GSX-R1000 K7 35'26.845 23 3 Corser T. Yamaha Motor Italia. Yamaha YZF-R1 35'27.834 23 4 Xaus R. Team Sterilgarda. Ducati 999 F06 35'32.661 23 5 Lanzi L. Ducati Xerox Team. Ducati 999 F07 35'36.568 23 6 Laconi R. Kawasaki PSG-1 Corse. Kawasaki ZX-10R 35'38.937 23 7 Rolfo R. Hannspree Ten Kate Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 35'49.021 23 8 Smrz J. Team Caracchi Ducati SC. Ducati 999 F05 35'56.794 23 9 Muggeridge K. Alto Evolution Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 36'04.468 23 10 Neukirchner M. Suzuki Germany. Suzuki GSX-R1000 K6 36'06.627 23 11 Bussei G. Team Sterilgarda. Ducati 999 F06 36'08.258 23 12 Fabrizio M. D.F.X. Corse. Honda CBR1000RR 36'12.351 23 13 Martin S. D.F.X. Corse. Honda CBR1000RR 36'19.281 23 14 Nakatomi S. Yamaha YZF. Yamaha YZF-R1 36'28.403 23 15 Brookes J. Alto Evolution Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 36'47.320 23 16 Zanotti A. SMT Yamaha. Yamaha YZF-R1 36'53.646 23 17 Morelli L. Team Pedercini. Ducati 999RS 36'53.915 23 18 Nieto F. Kawasaki PSG-1 Corse. Kawasaki ZX-10R 17'07.362 11 19 Ellison D. Team Pedercini. Ducati 999RS 11'16.953 7 20 Toseland J. Hannspree Ten Kate Honda. Honda CBR1000RR 4'39.517 3 21 Zaiser C. LBR Racing Team. MV Agusta F4 312 R | ||
| Jaimec |
Haga and Corser 1 & 3? Sounds like Yamaha is finally sorting out the 2007 YZF-R1 and that's gotta spell trouble for everyone else on the grid... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Yamaha 1 & 3 BUT Bayliss OUT Toseland OUT So I guess it would normally be : Yamaha 3 & 5 But it is nice to see Nitro Nori winning. This guy definately deserves a WSBK championship! I hope he does it before he retires. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Ducati 1098S scored its first ever significant win at the SUPERSTOCK 1000 race ! BUT the Agusta and R1 leading the race had a crash at the last lap.... I have to say that in race outfit I prefer the 999, since it is physically smaller than the 1098. The 1098 looks like an IL4!! The Agusta is now (in my opinion) the best looking bike. Also the 1098 was running wide at the whole race, but Ducati managed to do it. This is huge for the 1098 publicity. Regarding Talent..... I think Toseland is VERY talented, he just knows when to push the bike and go for it and when to let it go and settle for what he or his bike can do best. He does it when he races, he did it when he turned down D'Antin... That is clear judgement..... After all he is WSBK champion! Many motoGP riders can only dream of his title. If he gets lucky he could win the WSBK title and get a Repsol GP ride next year. | ||
| Jaimec |
Damned shame about Bayliss. Lost most of his right little finger? The announcers on SpeedTV didn't mention this. Hope he's back up on two wheels soon! | ||
| Trojan |
Damned shame about Bayliss. Lost most of his right little finger? The announcers on SpeedTV didn't mention this. Hope he's back up on two wheels soon! Apparently Bayliss wanted to delay the surgery to amputate what was left of his finger above the first knuckle so that he could ride in the second race! He was overrulled by his team and the medics worried about the risk of infection, but it just shows what a hard man he is and how much comittment he still has for the sport. He'll be back for the next round in under two weeks I think a few other 'sportsmen' could take a leaf from his book  | ||
| Jaimec |
Over in MotoGP world Hopkins has decided to pass on surgery to his wrist till the off season. He'll just ride in pain over the course of the season. I admire these guys (but I also think they're just a BIT nuts). | ||
| Jaimec |
Bayliss has the pole again for tomorrow's race. Once again proving how uncompetitive that old Ducati 999R is in World Superbike... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Apr/070414gv.h tm In fact, with Ducati in the one-two slots, they're not doing a real good job of convincing the powers that be that the 999R is not competitive with the Japanese Fours... | ||
| Rocketman |
But the 999R is at the end of its development, as can be seen by it not dominating any part of the grid. Bayliss is a big part of the 999R's prowess in WSB. You should note that Ducati's request for a 1200cc limit will not be the pushover you seem to imply if Ducati get their wish. Proposals are 1200's might have a capacity advantage but they will be subject to other more demanding restrictions. The problem is, Ducati streetbikes need to increase their capacities to keep up with the market trend from Japan and other manufacturers who are finding high horse power and high performance for their top selling superbikes. Ducati have gone to 1099cc to compete in the market place. Consequently, to remain competitive in the market place, Ducati need to race what they sell. Hence, taking a capacity hike on the track might not benefit Ducati, given what rules and restrictions the governing bodies put in place, as much as some assume, but it will keep Ducati in line with what they race and sell in the showroom. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Are there any spoilers in this thread? If so, please edit the title as I've scrolled down past my last post without looking, lol. Thanks. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
If Ducati (or any other manufacturer) wants to continue racing in WSB then it should make a bike that fits the rules, not expect the series to change the rules to suit it. | ||
| Jaimec |
My thinking exactly. Lengthen the connecting rod and shorten the stroke of the 1098 so that it displaces 1000cc. Raise the redline to make up for the displacement decrease and compete with that. Then you'd still have a modern, competitive bike and you can retire the 999 once and for all. Of course, if Ducati does get the rule changed, then Suzuki says they'll pull out of the series and take Biaggi back into MotoGP. That might be enough for Dorna to make sure WSBK NEVER changes their rules... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that if Ducati is allowed to race with 1200cc next year, the SBK series will soon be a Ducati Cup. It happened before. And it was BAD! For me 200cc advantage for Ducati is TOO MUCH and is not fare for the rest. Maybe the rules should allow 2-cylinder bikes to be lighter, like in MotoGP. But I guess the people that make the rules, know what they should do so that all manufacturers have an even chance of winning and the SBK series stays popular. | ||
| Rocketman |
Matt, I'd enjoy to read your 'why' and 'why not' on the situation. Care to offer it up please? Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Just came back from Hooters where I watched today's WSBK round with friends and beer. I'm not going to give away the results, but I have to tell you that the last lap of the second race was some of the most exciting racing I've seen so far this year! Amazing! | ||
| Blublak |
The simplest way to make it all fair is to establish s very easy to follow set of rules.. Weight and HP limits. Say it has to be a production based machine with X HP that weight no less then X Kg. If I'm thinking right, a lot of the 1000cc bikes have similar HP numbers already so there should be almost no problem having bikes ready to go in short order. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, I'd enjoy to read your 'why' and 'why not' on the situation. Care to offer it up please? Whilst I can understand Ducati's position in wanting to cut the cost of running their WSB bikes, allowing them to run 1200's would still be counterproductive, as they don't make a 1200 road bike and WSB is a road bike based series. Manufacturers know the rules in advance so should either build a bike that fits the rules or face the fact that they are not eligible. If the organisers are going to lift the cc limit then they should do so across the board and introduce a blanket 1200cc capacity limit regardless of engine format. Ducati already enjoy a much more favourable position than the big Jap companies by virtue of the fact that, as a small company, they do not have to manufacturer as many bikes for homologation as Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki etc. and can build quite small runs of 'homologation specials' such as the 999R & 749R. Ducati also already have a road bike in their range that fits in the current rules, the new Desmosedicci. All they have to do is manufacture sufficient numbers for homologation. I would find it more than a little ironic though that a copy of a MotoGP bike could end up racing in WSB A few years ago WSB relied almost entirely on Ducati to be a viable championship, and if Ducati pulled out the series would have collapsed. During those years Ducati got pretty used to throwing it's corporate weight around and bullying the organisers. That is not the case now, and the series has much more depth and variety than ever before. There are only really 3 Ducatis in the field capable if winning now, and although it would be a sad loss if they left, the series would continue very well without them in the same way it manages without Triumph, Buell, KTM, BMW, Bimota etc. Ducati just need to realise that WSB is no longer their toy project, and they cannot just take the ball home if they don't like the rules. What I would love to see is separate series alongside WSB just for twins? World Supertwins That way we could see the 1098 racing against the new and upcoming BMW Supertwin, KTM RC8, Aprilia RSV replacement and even the XBRR maybe? It wouldn't even need to be production bike based, allowing for much more ingenuity and technical innovation such as we saw with the Britten project a few years ago. | ||
| Rocketman |
Awe Matt, I really can't agree with that as an outsider looking in  I read the in depth in MCN a couple of weeks ago Ducati goes official with WSB quit threat and couldn't help but feel Ducati were covering all fronts by offering fairness across the board if they are to be allowed to race 1200cc twins. For the benefit of those who can't read the full report, Ducati are claiming their current costs racing WSB are their biggest issue. Ducati say we are not seeing a hotted up 999R racing today, or even last year. We are seeing a pretty much full on prototype racer out there every other weekend, in an effort to keep up with 225 bhp fours. The current rules allow V twins modifications the four cylinder runners would enjoy - such as crankcase and crankshaft changes. Whilst these rules benefit Ducati in performance terms, manufacturing a mere handful of cases for example, specifically for WSB racing, is very costly. Ducati say they are happy to run their upto 1200cc engines under the same rules the fours run under. They say if they are given an advantage by increasing capacity they are happy to look at regulations to keep them from having an advantage. Ducati mention weight limits or intake restrictors, and having such or similar restrictions introduced at a few races by races intervals until a balance between them and the fours is found. I'd have to say, that seems very fair and magnanimous to me. The idea of Ducati not racing their streetbikes in WSB would have me lose a massive chunk of my interest in the series. Such would make the series a Japanese fours cup. As for Ducati racing against others like KTM and BMW twins, and the XBRR too, sure - in another series separate entirely from WSB, but never at the expense of Ducati not running in WSB. Other manufacturers should step up to WSB level if they want to race against other manufacturers streetbike superbikes. That's what WSB is all about. The race modified version of what is the flagship sports production road bike you can buy from your chosen manufacturer. Slotting the 1098 Ducati in the KTM, BMW, Buell category would have the effect of making the others against the Ducati seem more prestigious, whilst for Ducati it will make them look like they're running in the 2nd division. No way thanks. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm with Matt on this one. Ducati had a displacement advantage in AMA Superbike years ago, and their twins were winning every race. When the displacements were made all equal, the racing got more interesting. They knew the rules going in, so why try to change them? Why build a bike that was illegal for racing and THEN try to get the rules committees to allow it? Make sure the rules are in place FIRST! Why not adopt the MotoGP rule that gives a weight advantage for running fewer cylinders? Would that be fair? It worked in MotoGP, so why not in WSB? | ||
| Trojan |
A few years ago twins had a distinct advantage in WSB and the rules were weighted heavily in Ducati's favour to the point where Honda and Suzuki specifically built twin cylinder machines just to try and get onto a level playing field with Ducati. Now that the boot is on the other foot Ducati should consider building a bike with an engine format that suits the current rules, rather than try to get the rules bent in their favour again. Whilst I have some sympathy with Ducati on the cost issue, they have effectively painted themselves into a corner with their insistence on continuing to build idiosynchratic twins at the expense of everything else. They knew as much as anyone what the rules were going to be and what the Japanese builders were capable of at least two years ago, but chose to ignore the warnings until now because they could still win with the 999. It almost remibnds me of the British bike industry in the 1960's...ignore the opposition and they will go away. Sad as it would be, I would rather see Ducati leave the series than see the rules changed to accomodate one factory above the others. WSB should be bigger than any one factory and if it isn't then it has no right to call itself a World series. | ||
| 12r |
The weight/cylinder combos have never worked in MotoGP because sometimes a light weight can be a drawback. For example Pedrosa has a perceived advantage over, say Hayden, because he is 18 kg lighter. Although this means Pedrosa can accelerate faster and brake harder, his light weight means his motorcycle has reduced traction on the exit of corners and it is also very sensitive to small changes in suspension/tyres. A weight advantage alone is insufficient to level the field and since WSB is a series for production-based motorcycles there is very little else that can be done apart from a capacity increase that will allow the Ducatis to stay competitive. Unless the twins have a one-lap start  | ||
| José_quiñones |
FGSPORT ENHANCES ITS ORGANISATION Rome, Monday 19th March 2007 FGSport is pleased to announce that with effect from April 2 2007, Paolo Ciabatti will assume the role of "SBK Project Leader". Paolo Ciabatti will be responsible for the management of the Superbike World Championship, and in this function will report directly to the CEO of FGSport, Paolo Flammini. In welcoming Paolo Ciabatti aboard, Paolo Flammini stated: "We are all very enthusiastic about the arrival in our company of such a highly respected and experienced person in the field of motorsport, and also a person with whom everyone in FGSport has always had good relations . I wish Paolo all the best in his new future with us." Paolo Ciabatti added: "I am grateful to Maurizio and Paolo Flammini for the confidence that they have shown in making this agreement with me and I am very enthusiastic about this new adventure with FGSport. I have arrived in FGSport at a magical time, with the championship on the up, and I will put all my experience, gained in the last ten years, at the disposal of the championship to help it become even more successful." __________________________________________________ So the former head of Ducati Corse is now the World Superbike Project Leader? It's a done deal. (Message edited by josé_quiñones on April 16, 2007) |
