| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
>>>>Oh pshaw, That should be Oh oh pshaw, I stand corrected! jimi | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake sez: JScott, Your repeated resurrection of that quote is extremely rude and in very poor form. We all saw it the first three times you posted it. Whoa unto you should you ever be a public figure and have circumstances beyond your control turn against you rendering one of your prior upbeat and enthusiastic statements invalid. What's up with that? I see nothing in Jscott's assistance in bringing this quote to light again that could be construed as rude or in very poor form. Erik DID say it after the last race at Mid-Ohio, believing that his creation was going to be coming back the next year for another factory sponsored go at it...then HD pulled the plu...er ah, discontinued the sponsorship suddenly and without warning. We call that getting blind-sided whar' I come from! It certainly is no criticism of Erik Buell...it just illustrates how ruthless the execs at HD can be to their own (red-headed stepchildren). It was however, classic HD, as we saw it before when they did it to Hal's and Rich Cronwrath at the beginning of the 2005 season (after they had invested large [non-reimbursed] dollars prepping for the Daytona 200 and the FX season). Is THAT any way to treat your best privateer teams? I think not! Which was exactly the point that I was making when I said: I don't see us badmouthing Buell racing (gross oversimplification, and I think you know it)...rather, it is the absence of Buell in FX racing and the way that the MoCo went about it. To me, blind-siding your Chief Executive and leaving him out to dry in PUBLIC is extremely rude and in very poor form (one could even say it rises to the level of Bush league...just ask Scooter), and I am curious as to why you guys are defending it. And folks, that has NOTHING to do with bad-mouthing Buell Racing, regardless of how you try and titty-twist it. Let the water-boarding begin! jimidee | ||
| Court |
Most of that is inaccurate . . but, hey . . it's the internet, right? | ||
| Blake |
Sorry Matt, I misinterpreted the gist of your comments. Court, You are so correct that the internet is poorly served by the "stuff" some people see fit to publish upon it. Some folks are more about tearing down; I'm more fond of the folks who are more about building up. I hereby challenge everyone here to cease the negativity and be positive. | ||
| Jimidan |
Most of that is inaccurate . . but, hey . . it's the internet, right? So, does that mean some of it is accurate? It is the internet, where deduction and speculation are allowed on forum chat pages. If you can shed some facts on those things that are inaccurate, I would certainly appreciate it. It is just as easy to say that something is inaccurate with a simple one liner, and then not to back it up with the facts. So, let's talk specifics. Are you saying that Jscott's contribution of Erik's "wait til next season" quote is extremely rude and in very poor form? or... Are you saying that HD did not blindside Erik after he made the 'wait til next season' statement? [I can see it only happening two ways...either he was blind-sided and hung out to dry by the HD and the sponsors (subsidiaries of HD), or that he knew there would be no next season and was just saying that. I have to deduct that he was blindsided.] or... Are you saying that Hals and Innovative Technologies were not hung out to dry two month before the 200, after expending large sums of their own money prepping for the big race and the FX season? or... Are you saying that blind-siding your Chief Executive and leaving him out to dry in PUBLIC is NOT extremely rude and in very poor form? jimi (Message edited by jimidan on February 02, 2007) | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake, Court didn't say it was negative, he said it was "inaccurate". If it is inaccurate, let him set the record straight. What it sounds like you want to do is censor whatever you consider to be controversial, or "negative". What fun would that be? Whatever happened to the fun of debate? How boring is it going to be if everyone just stands back and says, "Way to go HD/Buell!. The guys at HD really gave Erik a good thumpin'...way to go HD!" What do you want here, to turn us all into the Badweb Stepford Wives with pom-poms? While we are at it, lets all go to the same college, comb our hair the same way (or even better, let's all shave our heads!), marry blonde, blue-eyed bimbos, all ride only Buells, vote for the same people, all be Christians, never make waves, live like sheep ready for the slaughter, let the fear of whatever the threat is today paralyze us, deride any one who questions authority, status quo, traditional Christian values, bad politicians, crack smoking/homo-pumpin' televangelists, etc. God knows we wouldn't want anybody to sound negative (to some folks, just because it raises issues or questions authority). That sounds like fun. (Message edited by jimidan on February 02, 2007) (Message edited by jimidan on February 02, 2007) | ||
| José_quiñones |
A press release explaining what changed from the previous press release would be helpful, just put a little line in there near the end after telling everybody to get ready for the dirt bikes. | ||
| Jimidan |
Jose' is right, at this point we will take anything but silence...which only leads to deduction, speculation, disagreement, questioning, etc. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Matt made a comment earlier:
From superbikeplanet.com Claudio Domenicali of Ducati Q: So how do would you compare Ducati's racing involvements with the budgets needed to produce new or future street bikes like the 1098? (Ok stupid question. But at this point I was running out of ideas and our next session was fast approaching. Our very tolerant host had a great answer) A: Ducati spends a lot of money racing. Racing is about spending, while our production based street motorcycles are about earning. We spend in racing and as a result earn with our production equipment, the two are separate but require each other to exist. Is that the same thing you said? It's semantics anyway. Mat Oxley mentioned in a recent roadracingworld that Ducati has 100 of their 1,000 workforce involved in the racing program (10%), while HRC employs 125 out of Honda's 30,000 employees (0.4%), while Kawasaki has 30 out of 40,000 (0.075%) Honda sells about MILLION bikes worldwide per year. HD sells about 350,000 bikes worldwide. Ducati sells about 35,000 bikes worldwide. Buell sells about 10,000 bikes worldwide. (ballpark numbers) Racing is about spending, HD/Buell choose to not spend enough to be competitive at the AMA level, granted they have less of it to spend due to their relative size. But if they spent money in the proportion Ducati does, you would see the full Daytona "Show" every year like you did last year, plus a whole lot more. (Message edited by josé_quiñones on February 02, 2007) | ||
| Blake |
It'll happen. Money doesn't grow on trees. Bikes first, racing follows. It is happening now. Some of us are just impatient and we want what we want when we want it (W8I). | ||
| Jimidan |
Bikes first, racing follows. It is happening now. Some of us are just impatient and we want what we want when we want it (W8I). Like the brass at HD...talk about impatient! The fans were quite willing to wait til next year with Erik, but HD got fed up and pulled the sponsorship. I will bet, that if Jeremy had made it to the top five or better at Mid-Ohio (a very real possibility), Buell would have a factory team in the Daytona 200, probably with McWilliams riding. Well, we will have Walt there trying to qualify, which will be pretty exciting too. And of course, the Worm on the Duck. | ||
| Court |
>>>HD/Buell choose to not spend enough to be competitive at the AMA level, granted they have less of it to spend due to their relative size. But if they spent money in the proportion Ducati does, you would see the full Daytona "Show" every year like you did last year, plus a whole lot more. I agree with that. It's the simplest form of economic "bread or bullets". There were "X" dollars available. . . you choose EITHER racing (instant gratification) or new product development (long term viability of the company}. Wise, in my opinion choices were made and there was no "plug pulling". Racing success is no substitute for a well thought out strategically executed business plan . . . the world is rife of examples of gifted folks with gifted designs (can you say John Britten) who couldn't get the business-copter off the ground if they had to. Erik Buell, and I'm pretty much guessing here, has been party to some difficult decisions, that likely go counter to his PERSONAL proclivity to race, to ensure that Buell is a MAJOR player in the worldwide motorcycle market by say the end of 2010. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, your response is total hypocrisy toward board policy. You're blinkered and sucking up to someone only you know the identity of. At least when I throw my insults they're warranted and have my name back them up. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Racing success is no substitute for a well thought out strategically executed business plan . . . I agree, but this didn't come off as such...the timing just wasn't there to portray a well thought out strategically executed business plan. Sometimes it looks like they are trying to lose business. Surely, you have to admit that at the very least. Erik made the now infamous 'wait til next year' public declaration after Mid-Ohio, and then we now learn that a very short time later the sponsorship funding was silently pulled by the MoCo. The only way we found out about it was when one of the Anonys came on here after everyone was clamoring for info about the XBRR in the Daytona 200. Whether it was or not, it came off as a blind side of the Chief Executive of Buell...and not very well thought out or strategically planned. It appeared that Erik wasn't a party to the difficult decisions at all...like he was some kind of red-headed stepchild, a feeling that many of us have felt in the past with regards to the MoCo. If you don't know what I am talking about, then you haven't been in a Buell/HD dealership in the last 12 years. Hey, if it comes down to where to spend the money, racing or product development, I would choose PD anyday...as my S2 and S1 aren't going to last forever and the current XB line isn't my cup of tea. My whole issue in this is when will HD/Buell learn something about the importance of public perceptions, to where their major public decisions look like a well thought out strategically executed business plan, instead of something that Karl Rove cooked up at the last minute for damage control. Projecting incompetence, whether real or imagined, does not sell motorcycles (or win elections). Aren't they tired of being the laughing stock of the paddock and press? Erik Buell and his motorcycles are better than that. If you don't know what I am talking about, then you haven't been to many AMA races lately with riders of other brands. jimidee | ||
| Trojan |
If you don't know what I am talking about, then you haven't been to many AMA races lately with riders of other brands. Unfortunately the ripples from this situation are being seen at race tracks and showrooms around the world, not just in the AMA. If there is a grand plan for Buell Racing then it needs to be made apparent pretty soon, and it needs to be seen to be achieveable, so that the lid can be firmly screwed onto this current episode and the 'New Dawn' begin. | ||
| Anonymous |
Trojan, You have no idea what you are talking about in "ripples through the showrooms". Buell is having record sales. You may want some different "grand racing plan", but you are in the minority. Buells last year won more race championships with non XBRRs than ever before. XBRR's are being prepped around the world for different series, and they will race in much greater numbers than last year. | ||
| Jimidan |
Well, bring on the dancing girls... jimidan | ||
| Rocketman |
Buells last year won more little known domestic race championships with non XBRRs than ever before. XBRR's are being prepped around the world for unheard of, insignificant different series, and they will race in much greater numbers, well there were only 4 after all, than last year. There, fixed it for ya! Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan, You have no idea what you are talking about in "ripples through the showrooms". Buell is having record sales. You may want some different "grand racing plan", but you are in the minority. Buells last year won more race championships with non XBRRs than ever before. XBRR's are being prepped around the world for different series, and they will race in much greater numbers than last year Actually Anony I think I probably know more about what people say about Buell Racing outside the US (and particulalry in the UK) than you do, seeing as I spent last year in and around the UK race paddocks listening to people 'slagging off' Buells FX race effort, despite my atempts to persuade them otherwise. You may think that everyone understands and is sympathetic to the reasons for the XBRR's lack of success in FX but believe me the man in the street just believes what he reads in the paper, and that was less than complimentary. Even amongst knowledgeable racers, spectators and journalists the whole Buell FX thing was seen as a farce and one that Buell came out of with a lot of egg on their corporate faces. If you think that Buell's reputation has not suffered because of the XBRR then you are sadly mistaken or misinformed, and need to get out more. The UK and Europe are supposed to be 'key markets' for Buell aren't they? Well Buell sales in the UK were not exactly great last year were they? I know that XB's won championships last year and I'm very glad they did, but we were talking about FX not Thunderbike etc. As for 'XBRR's being prepped around the world', well not in England they ain't, seeing as they are not legal for any of the major championships. I suspect that the majority of the 56 XBRR's built will not see a race circuit this year or ever, but will languish in private collections and museums. Am I in a minority to want a cohesive and achievable racing plan from Buell? Somehow I don't think so. | ||
| Jens |
>Geez, I rarely come to these racing pages, and I remember why now. The stuff posted by some folks on here is just nuts. Must be some kind of computer virus in this area that affects minds behind the keyboards.< Imona, same impression here. Better use the time to work on the bikes/projects for the upcoming raceseason. Can´t read this wining/hairsplitting BS anymore. In the 07 season many engaged Buellacers and Teams will show up with Tubeframers, XB´s and RR´s on the racetracks in Europe and all over the world. The people love to see, hear and feel the Buells competing with the best bikes of the other great manufacturers. The XBRR is a fascinating bike and forever the benchmark in pushrod V-Twin racing. Jens | ||
| Trojan |
In the 07 season many engaged Buellacers and Teams will show up with Tubeframers, XB´s and RR´s on the racetracks in Europe and all over the world. The people love to see, hear and feel the Buells competing with the best bikes of the other great manufacturers. I agree, people do love to see Buells racing...Which is Exactly why I get so aerated about it!!! People in the UK will NOT see a single Buell race bike anywhere in this country in 2007. The XBRR is a fascinating bike and forever the benchmark in pushrod V-Twin racing. fascinating..Yes. Forever the benchmark in pushrod V Twin racing?...Possibly, but I think some of your competitors in German Bears racing (Guzzilla & a couple of trick BMW's) may disagree and aim to prove you wrong there. By the way, if you don't like my point of view that is fine, but don't call it whining or BS just because you happen to disagree with it. | ||
| Jens |
Trojan, Jens Hoffmans Guzilla and the BM´s will get a chance this season against the RR´s. As I wrote after Daytona last year, the RR story is at its begin, not at its end.... And again, (OK on my point of view) raceengagement shows up at the track -as spectator, rider, crew or teamchief. Not in internetforums.... By the way we are looking for an interesting race date in UK to come over. Brands Hatch would be fine. Jens (Message edited by Jens on February 05, 2007) | ||
| Trojan |
Jens, It would be good to see some Buells racing at Brands Hatch. There are a number of Thunderbike rounds at Brands Hatch this year and also at Lydden (Near Dover). You can see the dates and rules for the UK Thunderbike rounds here: http://www.thunderbikeuk.com | ||
| Jens |
Thanks Trojan, the calendar looks great, but our bikes won´t fit in their rulebook. Jens | ||
| Trojan |
The only other option to you may be to enter into one the Sound of Thunder races run by the New Era club (http://www.neweramcc.org/club/provdates.htm) Although they only have one date at Brands Hatch all year, and that is the 14/15 April. Maybe you can persuade Warr's to race their XBRR at this meeting too, as it is the only UK championship that the XBRR is elligible to enter. (Message edited by trojan on February 05, 2007) (Message edited by trojan on February 05, 2007) | ||
| Jscott |
Back to Ducati in FX... http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=28073 "“The response from fans has been overwhelming since we announced that Pegram Racing would be racing on Ducati’s in the Formula Xtreme class. Ducati fans were saddened when they learned that Ducati would not be fielding a US team for the AMA Superbike Series in 2007. Everyone knows that Ducati fans love racing, but we found out how much, with their excitement about supporting the team. We had a lot of Ducati enthusiasts asking how they could help out. They understand that to compete effectively against the bigger factory teams is going to require additional financial backing. This program allows them to help support the team financially and feel the pride of actually being a part of the team’s success,” commented Larry." Go Worm | ||
| Jimidan |
Jens and Imona sez: >Geez, I rarely come to these racing pages, and I remember why now. The stuff posted by some folks on here is just nuts. Must be some kind of computer virus in this area that affects minds behind the keyboards.< Imona, same impression here. Better use the time to work on the bikes/projects for the upcoming raceseason. Can´t read this wining/hairsplitting BS anymore. I have always found it interesting how some folks characterize the thoughtful analysis and constructive criticism of some as "whining" and "hairsplitting", or "just plain nuts". Of course, the passages that are so mischaracterized are always something that they either disagree with, but cannot mount an intelligent response to, or simply find too frightening for their herd mentality. These sheeple would make great state government workers (or grunts), as those institutions reward those who do not make waves or question authority. jimidan | ||
| Jens |
Jimidan, why you use not your intelligence to help one of this racers or teams out there? I am sure any hand is welcome! Sorry to say that, but I cant read all these "constructive" wordbubbles anymore. (It´sa personal statement you have not to share.) Matt, thanks for that link. I had in mind to contact Martin from Warrs as well, but first we need to find an event were track and date will fit. Jens (Message edited by Jens on February 05, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
People in the UK will NOT see a single Buell race bike anywhere in this country in 2007. Slight correction........  The Warrs XBRR is now a motorcycle show exhibit, as of last week. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Well, at least it isn't being stuck away in some museum somewhere! jimidan |
