| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
And PdP, no you are not a race fan, you are a Buell hater, and your posts have made that very clear. Anyone who really was interested in racing would have been excited to see Buell bikes in the fray. So don't come here acting all condescending; I assure you there are more dedicated race fans here than you will ever be, and many riders much more capable. You are a poser, nothing more, PdP. Unbelievable. With cheap shots like this I'm beginning to realise that so much of what DOESN'T go into the Buell product is down to pig headed ignorance. Frankly I'm a little surprised Buell have survived at all, and it's no wonder HD won't invest money for a Buell race program if comments like this are a demonstration of the people skills involved at top level. Rocket | ||
| Jlnance |
a bunch of people posted that they would be going to Daytona for the first time and were only going because Buells were going to be racing. It seemed odd to me that fans would only go watch a race if "their" brand was running. I just can't wrap my head around that attitude. Maybe as a strong Buell partisan you can explain it to me, or maybe one of those who holds that attitude can. I just don't get it. You're describing me.  People aren't born race fans. If your parents are fans, perhaps they will instill an interest in you. But the average person walking down the street isn't thinking about motorcycle racing and needs some catalyst to get them there. I went to watch the race in Daytona because a lot of people from Badweb were going to be there. I figured it would be exciting to hang out with the and watch Buell doing something new. | ||
| Jlnance |
And I think because the XBRR is not a good bike (because of the engine) ... Why keep on trying with a engine that gives nothing more than problems, either in performance or reliability? Of all the problems they had, I don't recall the engine being the basis for any of them. But perhaps I'm forgetting. | ||
| Ceejay |
my first motorcycle race, my son's first motorcycle race. Saw a bunch of buell's in the infield, none on the track-knew/expected that, and I've been hoping to see them, will I? Will he? Don't know but we'll keep rooting for the green goblins-I've been a Kawi fan since my first KZ750-and thus have enjoyed watching the haydens the past few years. And to believe all this got started because I bought a basket case of a buell logged onto this site and met a few nice people.  | ||
| Blublak |
Hmmmm.. I've been reading along here.. Trying to decide if I had anything to contribute. Not sure if do still, at least not something that will be slammed down by some. But here are a couple of my thoughts on the subject.. Buell is a great little company that is trying to compete on a much larger level then their size would indicate. Great for them, I truly appreciate the effort and hope that it continues. Racing. Let's all be fair here. Racing is NOT building street bikes. Most of the competitive bikes in most of the series we follow (no matter where you are from) are based on Japanese IL4 street bikes, that are based on a racing concept machine. So, you take a race bike, make it street legal then race it in a 'production' class. Ok, that's the way it works. Buell to their credit, took a wonderful street bike and turned it into a race bike. The XBRR while it may not have been the 'world beater' a lot of folks wished it was, is an incredible achievement and has proven at the club level to be quite a potent competitor. At the AMA level I think it was hampered by a lot of things, the least of which may have been folks expecting too much of the machine. Who here can say that such modifications to any platform wouldn't come with a host of issues to iron out? Ok, enough about that. It seems pretty clear that there will be no AMA effort this year. So be it. Let's look at AMA racing a little shall we? For the most part, the regs governing AMA Pro-Racing favor the IL4. Fine, that is how it is. I think what a lot of people are lamenting about AMA is just how 'staid' they can be. I've been following the circuit for a while now, maybe not as long as some others, but long enough (I feel) to comment on what I like and what I don't. Anyone besides me remember the 'old' FX class? I was almost a 'run what ya brung' situation with the bikes (all configurations) coming out and before the major rules change, turning times that were on par with the 'Super Bikes'. AMA chose to reign in the class, changing it to what it was and now they've changed it again, to what it is. A lot of folks, not just on this board, are tired of seeing the same old same old every time you check out the show. Other series seem to have more parity among the bikes and riders, there is an excitement about them. AMA SBK is reduced to the Matt and Ben show. It even took a while for the TV coverage to NOT follow them around as the two Suzukis ran around the track alone and un-touchable. I'm not going to say this is AMA's fault, but I'm sure if there had been some more thought put into keeping it 'level' (more or less, this is racing) then we may have seen more excitement in the series. The so called 'support' classes are where the real action is (IMHO) now. There are lot of reasons for this, and I don't feel like typing them all up, but suffice it to say, if we had the kind of action that WSBK MotoGP and even a lot of club level racing, then I'm sure we'd be more passionate about AMA SBK. I guess for some, it's pretty easy to stay within the lines. That line in the states was drawn around Yosh Suzuki and at this time, nobody has stepped up to erase it. But, I'm sure they're coming and I hope it's this year. Now, Buell is not the only brand not on the grid this year. Ducati, some of you may have heard of this little company with the long racing history? Mighty Ducati has pulled out of AMA Superbike. Why? They said it, they were not allowed to have a competitive bike. AMA rules said they couldn't run a WSBK spec 999. They couldn't get an increase in displacement either. Which is odd, since AMA Racing obviously has done the math and knows that a big twin (1000cc) with a 10K red line still can't produce the kind of power an inline four (1000cc) can with 17K. It even has rules in one class to allow for this and try to break up the 'usual suspects' that seem to dominate the field. See the FX rules. As a matter of fact, WSBK isn't allowing the new Ducati either, so Bayliss will be defending on last years bike. I guess, since Ducati have pulled out of the AMA SBK, they must be a bunch of loosers as well huh? Now, what I think would have been funny was if they could have produced enough D16RR's to qualify as a production bike for US racing and handed Boz and Hodge a pair of GP6's and said "Go, American Superbike racing". After all, the bike's less then 1000cc's, and is a street machine (now). The only thing that keeps that bike out of AMA competition is the numbers game. But, they didn't do that.. Ducati sucks as well. Damn. What is wrong with people? Folks gripe about the XBRR. They gripe about the lack of 'factory' support. Yeah, it would be kind of neat to see Buell field a factory race team. But then again, that's not how the bean counters at the mother ship see it.. or whatever. I hope that a year spent club racing does wonders for the 'RR' and all the niggling little things that kept going wrong get ironed out. And it '08 they are back and this time.. They are ready to put on a full season effort. If they were running this year, would I support them? Hell yes! Will I support all the racers that have chosen to ride Buells in the lesser series (CCS, ASRA, WERA etc.) Hell Yes! I enjoy motorcycle racing. If I thought I could do it, maybe I'd go out and try to compete. But I know my limits, I'm faster with a camera then with a bike. So I'll stick to what I can do. Ok.. rambling rant is over.. I think.. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
I am overwhelmingly disappointed that Buells will not be running in the FX series...I clicked on this thread because I knew we were closing in on Daytona and wanted to see which guys would be running this time and if more teams were on board this year. But, to find out that not one will be there is sad. Buell went Racing IMHO to promote their bikes, boost sales, etc. Let me ask each of you a question and I am pointing a big finger at myself also...how many of us called or emailed any of the sponsoring dealers (Hal's, Warr's, etc) and thanked them for what they were doing and possibly purchasing a "Buell racing" shirt or anything else Buell (parts, accessories, bikes) to show them that we were backing them up for the time and money they spent to fund and staff the race effort. I think each one of us should call each of these dealers and spend some $$$ with them and let them know we would like to see them racing again... and as for your local dealers...the dealership i purchased my firebolt at had no shirts when i bought my bike because they said they didn't sell enough to justify having them...well i talked to the management and let them know that i would love to be able to buy some Buell merchandise...the next time i stopped they had a full display of parts and several styles of shirts ( i bought a shirt for myself, my wife and my son) to thank them for having them available and to encourage them to keep stocking more. we (myself included)complain about this and that, but when we don't spend any money to support things we like, they have every reason in the world to stop because they are getting no return on their investment. if you want Harley to get excited about the Buell brand then the cash register receipts at the dealerships need to have the word "Buell" written on the product description area of the receipt more often. Harley looks at the company with a set of profit-n-loss glasses on. I love the 3%ers use of the fact that Buells account for 3% of total Harley Co. bike sales and I would have to say that they themselves promote the brand as well as anyone/thing that I have seen and i will do my best to be a MBIV to thank as many of them as i can. I would love for them to have to change their name to the 6%ers and throw up double "shockers" and then the 10%ers and so on. let's all make a new years resolution to take more pride in our bikes,wear something with the Buell name or logo on it each time you go to any bike outting or event (bike night, race, poker run, etc). put a Buell sticker on the back window of your car or truck (how many H/D stickers do you see everyday)...support this site and especially the sponsors and thank them for spending their advertising dollars to keep this site going. And tell everyone you know what an awesome bike you have and encourage others to discover what you have and purchase one for themselves. ok...man that was a huge soap box, i almost got hurt jumping off of it. sorry to be so long winded. (Message edited by xbrad9r on December 28, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
Aeholton & Jimi, Harsh but true. If it is not true, the target is free to make a correction and provide evidence to refute my observation. He won't on account of he cannot. "What have you ever accomplished that compares to starting a successful new motorcycle company? Since you feel so justified in waging derision upon those who actually do something of note, I'd like to know." But oh how predictable was his response. A complete non-answer, just more naysaying and chiding. Not thoughtful dialogue, mean spirited hateful chiding. You should note how this mean-spirited ingrate ended his initial post in this thread. It is most revealing. And it is proof in my book that this person, whoever he is, has never accomplished anything of note in his life. "I'm not dissing Buell (the company) in general, or Eric Buell in particular, just the XB-RR project." A more ignorant bullshit statement I've yet to see. People are what comprise the project, including Erik Buell and associates, people who know VERY well how to actually get things done, how to accomplish significant achievement. Unlike parade boy. "I'm done with you ignorant choads. Enjoy your pom-poms. " More of the same, and from an anonymous source and a liar. I don't make that accusation lightly; the last time I looked, "Rome, Italy" was nowhere near Green Bay or Madison, Wisconsin. IP addresses are handy for revealing information like that. I do hope he keeps his word and vacates this Buell Enthusiasts' Forum. On to more interesting and positive discussion then... "Then (this is my opinion) the factory realized that the motor cannot do the task and decided to withdraw. Now that's some good thoughtful meaty comment for discussion! Thank you for that Adrian! Of course, I disagree. In my view, the powerplant was for sure one thing that was proven to be up to the task of competing in AMA FX at the very highest level. The primary drive and a few other niggling issues were not. I personally witnessed three of these bikes lap TWS for a day, one being flogged for all it was worth while logging more than 200 miles. The engine is up to the task. The XBRRs were running lap times and hitting trap speeds comparable to those achieved by the 1000cc superbike track record holder, AMA racer Ty Howard. The engine absolutely has what it takes. No question. Chassis setup/tuning/track practice time, and a full-blown, well-funded, season-long 100% committed factory team development effort with a top rider is the only thing that is lacking. Some seem to think that we should look down upon those who become very enthused about participating in AMA racing at Daytona, specifically the Daytona 200, but then fall short of making a good showing. I say Bullshit! You have one of your children make the cut at any world class competitition, and make that a competition that you personally have revered and respected all your life, and tell me you won't be enthused and bragging to all the world about it. I hope that analogy hits home with some critics here. It is 100% valid. As an engineering professional who has worked on many development projects, I can personally attest to the paternal feelings of pride that manifest during such efforts, especially when a particular project is near and dear to one's own heart. This is how I know that anyone who has taken risk, put forth much personal effort and endeavored to actually achieve something significant would never ever gleefully chide the less than perfect results of others. Those who revel in tearing down the efforts of others are among the least accomplished in this world. | ||
| Eboos |
"Most of the competitive bikes in most of the series we follow (no matter where you are from) are based on Japanese IL4 street bikes, that are based on a racing concept machine. So, you take a race bike, make it street legal then race it in a 'production' class. Ok, that's the way it works. Buell to their credit, took a wonderful street bike and turned it into a race bike." Very good point. | ||
| Daves |
It is not who I thought it was. Sorry. (Message edited by daves on December 28, 2006) | ||
| Jimidan |
I don't know Blake...Mr. Parata (after all of the 5 star votes he's been getting around here lately, he deserves the "Mr.") makes some very good points in his farewell address. Sure, he is rubbing it in a bit, but why not? In the poker game of FX racing, he called our bluff (all of the pre-Daytona "bring 'em on" hype...oh, sorry, that was the other guy!), and when the cards were turned over revealing we had a pair of 6's...well, lets just say that eating crow is never pretty...especially to those that are doing it. I will say it sadly again that I think Mr. Parata's view of what happened over the last year with the XBRR program is widely held amongst the true race fans, as he so eloquently describes them. Conversely, it will be scorned by the true cheerleaders of the Buell faithful, but to no avail. Because really, it is all about public perception and the effect that this will have on sales is what we who care about the brand should be worried about. I didn't get the perception that any of us thought that we should look down upon those who become very enthused about participating in AMA racing at Daytona and the rest of the FX season. The criticisms came when expectations exceeded realization, followed soon thereafter by incompetence (either real or imagined...it makes no difference in the court of public opinion). This incompetence was not concerning the XBRR machine, riders, or its engineers, but rather the nuts and bolts of running a competitive race team...which funding is such an essential part. Let's say my grandson made the US track team the year before the Olympics, running the 400 high hurdles. Of course, I am proud, enthused and bragging to everybody who will listen, after all, his practice times are very competitive. I BRAG all about him when I am interviewed on TV before the season begins. But at the nationals he pulls his groin and does not finish the race. Because of the injury, he misses the next few meets, but he recuperates and trains hard and comes back. At the next meet, he strains his quad and doesn't finish the race. Panicking now with his injury, he uses a steroid to promote healing, but it shows up in a drug screen, and he is cut from the team. He is not even on the team when the Olympics rolls around the next year, but rather is reduced to club racing on the local team. We are all very disappointed that he missed his one chance to show his abilities on the World stage. But we still love him and will go to his local meet and watch this Olympic athlete beat up on the club racers. By dropping the ball repeatedly, they let us down. | ||
| Blake |
Comment aside on the disengenuous voting/rating practices of some here: Why anyone would vote Peter's (Blublak's) post above a "1" is incomprehensible to me. That was a wonderful and thoughtful post. I would ask that we please cease using the "1" vote as a means of anonymous derision. If we feel strongly enough to rate another's comment so dismally, then we ought to have the integrity to express thoughtfully in words our disagreement. I'm beginning to rethink the whole vote/rating feature due to so much abuse of it. Apparently one need not even be a registered BadWeBr in order to rate posts! So, I think a change is in order for the vote/rating system as it is being abused by naysayers. We'll either be doing away with it or transforming it to a thumbs-up only option. If one doesn't have the gumption to express in thoughtful words one's disagreement with another's opinion/commentary, then flooding the board with "1" votes should not be a viable alternative. Come on folks, take a look at the "Faces of BadWeB" thread and imagine we are all in the same room mingling happily face to face. Them's the instructions for posting here, and they go for the ratings as well. I'm looking for a kinder/gentler BadWeB. I may not be the best example. Sorry about that. As Jimi noted, some folks know how to "push my buttons." Happy New Year to all! | ||
| Aeholton |
Happy New Year to you too, Blake. I was disappointed in the DNF's last season, but didn't complain or make fun of them. I was happy that they were showing up. I am still upset in them not continuing the effort this year in AMA FX racing. On a more proactive note, how is the contribution to Buell Racing effort going? My check should be there by now. I think a grassroots effort is the best way to get Buell back out and competing at a national level. | ||
| Aeholton |
Also, I like the rating system. I vote we keep it. It is an easy way of expressing agreement or disagreement without getting into a 20 post debate. As for Blublak's post, I didn't rate it. However if I did to rate it, it wouldn't be high. I agree Buell is a great little company, but the Ducati comparison is totally off base. The AMA wrote Buell into the rules. The AMA won't even let Ducati run last year's WSB or British SBK spec bikes (never mind the new ten-nine-eight). | ||
| Eboos |
Just playing with you there Blake. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I'm beginning to rethink the whole vote/rating feature due to so much abuse of it. Why? Because you disagree with how people vote? That is absolutely ridiculous! | ||
| Blake |
No. | ||
| Blake |
Eboos, I didn't notice, whatcha talkin' about? | ||
| Blake |
Dave, A naysayer for sure. What a miserable way to exist. For those who might be usure of or unaware of the pertinent facts... Buell never ever committed to a factory effort this year in FX. In fact they told us in no uncertain words that they would NOT be fielding a factory effort and that Daytona might not even happen but that they were scrambling furiously to try to make it happen. When they did finally commit to Daytona, they made it clear that it was dealer sponsored efforts, not a full blown factory effort. At the time Daytona was the only sure thing for seeing an XBRR in AMA FX and Buell folks stated that they would be very happy just have bikes finish the race. Those are the facts, irrefutable, available here on BadWeB for anyone to see should they choose to do the digging. From that the naysayers see fit to proclaim utter embarrassment and failure and all manner of shame upon Buell Racing. Bullshit! Get thee away from me miserable naysayers. (Message edited by Blake on December 29, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
I liken the doom-sayers and shame-casters against Buell Racing to those fools who once proclaimed to envisage the impending demise of Buell Motorcycle Company. Those naysayers didn't know what they were talking about then, and the Buell Racing naysayers don't know what they are talking about now. Take that to the bank. | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm yet to fathom out what PdP said that branded him a Buell naysayer. Frankly I think Mr Buell bit off more than he could chew and now he wants us to forgive him for a monumental f**k up. As good as the XBRR allegedly is, it is nothing like what Buell said it was going to be. It has now become a thorn in the side of Buell racing, and the source of much disagreement within the Buell hardcore community. The man hours and finances put into the XBRR project would have been far better spent making 50 $30.000 'Super Hooligan' 170 mph + S1's, the likes of which could have given the Brutale, Monster S4R, Speed Triple, Super Duke etc etc a serious run for their money. Hooligan bikes are a Buell speciality. Racing bikes are not. To showcase ones capabilities with a limited run of specials will always sell more of the 'normal' production models. The XBRR in time will be looked upon by many as a Buell folly. The real damage will be done by those not in the Buell know who might have at sometime considered the ownership of a Buell, but not now since the XBRR disaster. Rocket | ||
| Jscott |
"“The AMA’s FX class is really getting fast and exciting and was a battle for the championship until this last race. It's been quite a learning year for the Buell teams, and when Jeremy's team finally got the set up right for him on Sunday morning, it was looking like we would close out the season with our best finish yet. But that's racing, and that's why we'll be back next year; it's the challenge,” said Buell Motorcycle Company Chairman and Chief Technical Officer Erik Buell." http://www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/racingnews detail.asp?news_id=1065 | ||
| Crusty |
Yeah, and I said I'd be back to Daytona this year. However, a change in my employment, combined with huge increases in the prices of Gasoline, Health Insurance and groceries means that I'll have to forego bike week this time around. Buell hasn't got the money to do it right. When they do get the money, they will do it right. | ||
| Jimidan |
Tpoppa sez: I'm beginning to rethink the whole vote/rating feature due to so much abuse of it. Why? Because you disagree with how people vote? That is absolutely ridiculous!' While we are at it, let's do away with national elections too...after the way they turned out in November, the American people can not be trusted in the voting booth any more. jimidan | ||
| Eboos |
"I didn't notice, whatcha talkin' about?" For giving you one star for the rating feature comment. | ||
| Blake |
 I only looked at one post, Blublak's, in surmizing the problem some have with that feature. Five stars for you! | ||
| Blake |
Sean, You do not know what you are talking about. You sure don't know much about the viability of the XBRR as a racing machine. Building a racing machine for those who wish to go racing is folly, a disaster, a thorn in Buell's side, a monumental #@$%-up? LOL! Winning its first race out of the box against an honest to goodness Ducati Superbike is a disaster? Winning the overall victory in a national level endurance race against a field of Japan Inc literbikes and others is a thorn in Buell's side? Winning the Pro-Twins race at Magny Cour is a monumental !@#%-up? Wow, you must have some amazing accomplishments under your belt to throw out such personal derision at the efforts of others. Or do you fit the naysayer category? You who do have and run a successful business should know better. I cannot believe the negative attitude that some so easily meld into. | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, When some folks vote multiple time and others who have no business voting do so anyway, you might be right. Some folks here are doing just that. I say the following as a friendly fellow Buell enthusiast: You sure can be a smart-ass for an older gent. (Message edited by Blake on December 29, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, one Swallow does not a summer make. As you say, the XBRR has had success, but I'm thinking based on Buell unable to spearhead any further success, this will only show the XBRR as a domestic market club racer at best. Compare such success to Buell streetbikes success and the XBRR seems par for Buells course. Had Buell built a 170 mph capable streetbike, the world would have sat up and paid attention. Even if it were only 50 super duper all singing all dancing demon machines, they would had they existed, cemented Buell into the higher echelons of the types of motorcycles that Buell could and Buells competitors are currently building. Such a show of manufacturing strength and ability would have Buell held in very high regard and I'm certain such lofty heights would sell more mainstream Buells. More Buells sold equates to a better cash flow. Cash flow is what Buell needs to go racing. For example, that is how Ducati go racing. That's what I'm talking about and I know that's what I'm talking about. What are you talking about when you say I don't know what I'm talking about? Do you know what you're talking about?  Rocket | ||
| Blake |
What are you talking about? "the XBRR has had success, but" For some, that will always be the governing attitude. What those successes tell me is that the XBRR is indeed a supremely capable racing machine in its class that when/if put into the hands of an honest to goodness full-blown factory type effort, one on par with the leading Japan Inc and Ducati WSB teams, it will be running right up there competing for the win. This requires loads of up-front testing and development and a full-time staff of engineers, development riders, top racers (at least two), and the undivided support and attention of Dunlop tire company who dominate AMA road racing or a tireless (humorous pun intended) committment from Pirelli. The disappointment I share, very much so. What I despise is the chiding and ridicule of other's actual honest to goodness efforts and enthusiasm; that kind of miserableness is the hallmark of a small mind and a man of little substance. (Message edited by Blake on December 29, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
As to the 170 mph motorcycle. That only requires an engine with 150 rwhp or so. Why is that such a milestone achievement? Seems the most easy compared to building a motorcycle with class-leading chassis and handling. Sophisticated sport bikers understand this. Which is why I reckon sales of the Buells in Europe are doing so well. But I guess as far as public perception goes, for the unsophisticated crotch-rocket squid crowd, a point and shoot machine is the be all end all in sport bikedom. That's not to say that all high powered sport bikes are not also very capable on the track, just that the mere achievement of a high speed capable motorcycle does not a great sport bike make. Then again, all good things in time, maybe? Some people--I'm one of them--are impatient. I don't object to mere impatience and enthusiasm. I do despise the chiding and ridicule, especially from those who have no standing from which to spew such miserableness. You should know that some folks are just waiting, frothing at the mouth with bile, for Buell to suffer any setback, negotiate any challenge less than perfectly. (Message edited by Blake on December 29, 2006) |
