| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
Trojan sez: You only need to take a look at the people running Harley Davidson to realise that road racing isn't in their blood , but profit is. Well, that statement is just plain false, and in fact, the opposite is true. Read up on your American road racing history and then come back and we will talk. The correct statement would be "You only need to look at the people running HD and Buell to realize that road racing is in their blood, while profitability is a much more recent acquisition." The recent abandonment of a bona fide road racing program is an anomaly...but to say that racing isn't in the gene pool at HD is a misconception. Jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on December 04, 2006) | ||
| Trojan |
Well, that statement is just plain false, and in fact, the opposite is true. Read up on your American road racing history and then come back and we will talk. The correct statement would be "You only need to look at the people running HD and Buell to realize that road racing is in their blood, while profitability is a much more recent acquisition." Actually Jimi, I am pretty well versed on American road racing history, which is why I deliberately said H-D and not H-D & Buell. Discounting dirt track racing and sticking to road racing, there has been precious little official H-D involvement in road racing since the early 70's and the Cal Rayborn era (which I followed religiously since seeing Cal demolish the best that Britain could offer in the transatlantic match races). There was of course the VR1000 fiasco that dragged on painfully for a few years, but all that proved was that the people like Willie G and others running H-D should have left racing to the race department and stuck to designing tassles. There was no political will to win, nor was there any firm direction to the project as far as I could see. They had some superstar riders and talented engineers for sure, but no idea of how to run a successful race team. Road racing is in Erik Buell's blood, but I doubt that many of the senior management at H-D could claim the same honour. | ||
| Jscott |
Live times from Daytona Tire test... http://206.168.146.115/rr/AMAflashresults.html | ||
| Trojan |
Wow, look at the times that Jamie Hacking is doing on the 600 Kawasaki! 5th fastest overall so far,ahead of most 1000's and over a second faster than the other 600's. Chaz Davies & Josh Herrin look good too considering how young they both are. Obviously not overawed by the opposition  The rest of the Brit contingent (Elison/Mason) aren't looking to impressive, but early days. Are Yamaha USA running a Superbike team or just Superstock again? (Message edited by trojan on December 04, 2006) | ||
| Jscott |
Yamaha is running SuperBike this year with Jason DiSalvo and Eric Bostrom. They are also running SuperStock with Ben Bostrom. I'm sure alot of the slower times posted by the new guys is due to their infamiliarity of Daytona. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jimidan, The Army belongs to the Japanese. Kawasakis for the troops, Suzukis for the race team. Saying that is enough to make me puke, but that's the way it is. Wanna bet some of the first car teams running Toyotas in NASCAR and NHRA are the military? Count on it. | ||
| Jscott |
Now this is a kid that I would love to see on the XBRR! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkRLyz2Xl1A Danny Eslick | ||
| Rocketman |
I can think of nothing I would rather see my tax dollars being spent on than an ARMY Buell FX racing team. I'm ready for the hot seat. Where do I sign?  Rocket | ||
| Crusty |
Wow, you're much prettier than I had thought. | ||
| Vonsliek |
back to live timing from daytona .. just what IS IT w/ james ellison??!! he must truly have had all his confidence eroded by the motogp paddock. sad. | ||
| Jscott |
He's just a little more than 3 seconds off of Mladin's pace. Probably not that bad for a guy on a new bike who has probably never rode the banks of Daytona before. | ||
| M2nc |
I'm sure someone will drag out the very best FX Laguna lap time and suggest that it is only 1.something seconds slower than Rossi was at the GP, but that would be missing the point. Even one second per lap is a country mile in GP or Superbike terms, and over 28 laps....... Here is food for thought. DiSalvo and Bostrom on these FX bikes were closer to Rossi on his GP bike at Laguna, than McWilliams was to DiSalvo and Bostrom at any given race in 2006 on the XBRR. Also, if you look at the lead the top five to seven motorcycles had at any given GP race in 2006, I say again that top FX riders and bikes can place top 10 finishes in GP. I say this because 2006 Lap Times say so. This is off the subject but to bring it into perspective, the XBRR is about 3-4 seconds slower than the top racing bikes with the top racers on them. Not in the ballpark for sure, but an amazing feat for a first year low funded effort. Put my fat tail on a Saturn rocket and won't get that close.  | ||
| Tripper |
I voted ya 5 stars and it got you up one increment. Now your golden. dt | ||
| Ceejay |
I'm still catching up, but what was the point? If they are going to race in even fewer, if any, races this next year, then why all the hoopla, race shirts, or even turn out 50 bikes. Sure they will and have done well for thier intended purpose-put 'em in the hands of privateers and become serious competitors, but they didn't have to make 50, or more, to do that. Many bikes were doing well as handbuilt models anyhow before the intro, so what was the point. Was it to put on display just how competetive FX is, to show how much money is needed to run a successful team, or to put one man's dream on the field. The final one suceeded-to a point. I seriously doubt that Erik Buell, or anyone else working for/at Buell wanted this to happen, but it seems odd that when your turning out 1.5 mil worth of bikes, that the powers that be wouldn't have thought this out a bit further than one year. | ||
| Blake |
Right thoughtful of ya Dave. Great to see you peak back in for a visit to. Cold up yonder? It is down here! It ain't my posts' ratings that are irritating me. It's the down the page one star rating some jerk(s) see fit to perpetrate upon any opinion, no matter how thoughtful, if it doesn't agree with theirs. You know what we need, or would be fun, cause we sure don't need it, would be some more graphic and diverse symbology for the various ratings scores. And we need a zero rating too. Got any good miniature clipart for a zero rating? | ||
| Blake |
M2nc, Are you certain of your lap times? Wait a minute, Rossi DNF'd this year at Laguna. Not a very good comparison. I'd say try comparing to the leading MotoGP time if you want to be equitable. | ||
| Blake |
See Dave, the one star bandit (OSB) got you too. | ||
| Trojan |
He's just a little more than 3 seconds off of Mladin's pace. Probably not that bad for a guy on a new bike who has probably never rode the banks of Daytona before. Or maybe it just shows what a lot of people have suspected and been muttering for a long time, that he isn't a great rider to start with? A good one, yes, but not great. I like James, but his record is a little lightweight prior to MotoGP. He won the World Endurance championship as part of a team of riders on probably the best bike in the series, and won the European Superstock championship, which at the time wasn't exactly brimming with talent. Of course he needed to be a good rider to win these, but it isn't an indication of superstar status. He had the same equipment as Carlos Checa at Yamaha (despite his protestations of lesser equipment and less than equal treatment) and was consistently 1-2 seconds slower all year at pretty much every track. It goes to show that just because you've had a MotoGP ride it doesn't make you a god. I do hope he improves though  | ||
| Trojan |
I say again that top FX riders and bikes can place top 10 finishes in GP. I say this because 2006 Lap Times say so. Not a chance in hell I'm afraid. If they could, do you think any of the manufacturers would bother spending millions on MotoGP bikes when they could just wheel out a modified R6 or CBR600? Laguna times also flatter the FX/Superbike times rather more than some other GP circuits with longer/faster straights and higher average speeds. Unfortunately there are not many circuits that are shared between the SBK and GP series so it is hard to compare directly. Valencia would be a good indication of relative performance, because both World Superbikes and MotoGP race there and both races were won in record times by the same rider on different Ducatis, so at least giving one constant to the equation. Forget 'best' lap times and qualifying, but look at average lap times over the course of the race, as this takes account of tyre wear, traffic, changing fuel loads and other things that would affect a proper race comparison. Troy Bayliss's average lap time at Valencia in MotoGP was 1.57. His Superbike average at the same circuit was 1.61. That is a huge 4 seconds per lap difference, now multiply that by GP race distance of 30 laps and it would place the very best World Superbike rider on the very best bike 2 minutes behind the winner of the GP, and 40 seconds behind James Ellison who finished in 14th place.. That is Superbikes, then add a second or so a lap for FX bikes and you'll see that the difference is actually pretty staggering. | ||
| Tripper |
bingo! A liitle lake effect snow last night. Not as bad as the 21 inches on Oct 12! I have customers from Memphis due to land in BUF today, and they are freakin out. southern woosies. this is a racing thread.... uuuhhh Why do people race? (Message edited by tripper on December 05, 2006) | ||
| Jscott |
"the one star bandit (OSB) got you too" It's a copy cat offender, because I'm not responsible for all of those.  | ||
| Jimidan |
So, what is the purpose of the star voting system anyway, if not to voice one's opinion about the content of the post? I thought it was for if you likey, they get a higher star designation...if you don't they get a lower one. If you totally disagree, a one-star would be totally appropriate. Please help me understand how that could be irritating, even for one who is "post" menopausal?  | ||
| Whodom |
The Army belongs to the Japanese. Kawasakis for the troops, Suzukis for the race team. Saying that is enough to make me puke, but that's the way it is. Well, the heck with the Army then. What about the USMC? Don't we have quite a few active and former Marines here? Court? | ||
| Vonsliek |
trojan matt .. i LIKE yr style .. always straight up & back w/ solid sounding data & argument. & yeah .. ellison - as much as i wld LOVE to see him do different - does seem lacking. be more interesting to see what chas davies can do .. might be HIS ticket back to the prototypes. | ||
| Blake |
Excellent facts Matt! Thanks for taking time to dig them up and share. You've had your meat now so please feel free to dish out some pudding. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Jimi, I never considered the post ratings as a way to express agreement or disagreement, but more a grade for how interesting, creative, helpful, well-written, enjoyable, intelligent, thoughtful, and engaging a post might be. I've never thought of rating someone's post poorly just because I disagreed with it. That just seems awfully petty. It seems all folks ever use is the five or the one rating. OSB got you too. | ||
| Trojan |
OK Blake, here is the pudding scoop Ilmor have signed Jeremy McWilliams and Andrew Pitt for 2007. I find Pitt a surprising choice, given his modest showing at recent tests (slowest times and 2 crashes) and relative lack of GP experience compared to McCoy and Davies, but he must have either been cheap or brought some cash to the table. Good to see Jezza signed up, but disapointing for Chaz Davies & for Gary McCoy in particular  On Jezza's progress: (MCN 6/12006) Jeremy McWilliams has undergone successful surgery on the broken left femur he suffered in a horror crash at last week’s Jerez MotoGP test. The 42-year-old had a rod inserted in his left femur at a private clinic in Jerez on Saturday, and is now expected to remain in Spain until this weekend before he is allowed to fly back to his Belfast home later this week. McWilliams broke the femur and his right collarbone in a crash at turn four on the final day in Jerez on his latest test for the new Ilmor X3 800cc project. He is expected to begin light training again in early January and an official announcement on Ilmor’s 2007 rider line-up is expected to be confirmed later this week. McWilliams Is poised to make a return to the premier class stage for the first time since 2004. Speaking from his hospital bed, McWilliams said: “I’m hoping to be out this week and go home, but the weather is quite good here at the moment so I might hang around. “The op went well, and I’m a bit more sore than I expected to be, then I’m hoping to get into some physio as soon as I can – perhaps even this week.” (Message edited by trojan on December 06, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
I like Matt's race writing. He brings a definite clarity to our discussions, and sometimes arguments, which is clearly based on a wealth of insider knowledge from participating as well as spectating in the sport. I mean, I rated Ellison until Matt put me off him! Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
Now you'll make me blush  It's not that I don' rate James Ellison, just not as highly as some others | ||
| Davegess |
<he> The Ilmor PR about why they choose these two to test says "Test riders McWilliams and Pitt were chosen not only for their talent but also reputable communication skills, both riders provided comprehensive feedback during the test enabling the team's mechanics and designers to iron out earlier teething problems and push forward towards the holy grail of the perfect set-up for the 2007 season." Perhaps they want to continue on those lines? BTW seems that Matt has scoped the world on this signing. I don't find news of it any where else but here!! Cool! | ||
| Trojan |
BTW seems that Matt has scoped the world on this signing. I don't find news of it any where else but here!! Cool! I have read between the lines of quite a few interviews with Ilmor staff. Jezza and Andrew Pitt and they all point to the same conclusion. Just thought I'd scoop it first (MCN today: An Ilmor spokesman told MCN that McWilliams crash would have no impact on the rider selection process, and an official announcement could be made confirming McWilliams/Pitt later this week) (Andrew Pitt said he would be back in MotoGP for the first time since 2003, and is close to signing a deal with Ilmor. 'I have been over at the Ilmor HQ in England and as far as I am concerned I'll be on one of the bikes') Their test session at jerez didn't exactly leave them anywhere near their 'perfect holy-grail for 2007' and if anything left everyone scratching their heads more than before. All 3 crashes (Pitt 2: Jezza 1)were apparently the same front wheel washout with no warning, pointing to a lack of grip/heat in the front tyre. The team maintain that this could be because the tyre construction was for the 990 GP bikes, but other teams didn't suffer the same front grip problems so it may be deeper than that (or Ilmor are at the end of the Christmas card list for Michelin). They also apparently still have trouble with the engine management software, which makes the power come in with such a bang that it makes the bike almost unrideable in places. This is where other F1 derived engine designs such as the Aprilia 'cube' also had serious problems, highlighting the difference between getting the power down on 2 and 4 wheels. Hopefully they will get the problems fixed in time for the January tests. |
