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Davegess
| | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 01:42 pm: | 
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Rocket, here is teh best I can come up with on short notice. GEVI SPA is certainly an Italian finance company.
http://www.mvagustausa.com/web-mvagusta/news/CN_01 1106.pdf |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 06:24 pm: |
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Well fisch, your reluctance to show any real or tangible evidence to support your alleged findings has me place it with all the other junk surfacing from the rumour mill.
Yes as it happens, I am interested in the story otherwise I'd not waste my time asking you to put up some evidence to substantiate your findings.
You are the one that seems to be saying openly on the BadWeB you have some info that no one else in the public domain has. To further suggest the MV saga has some bearing on your personal finances and you're willing to say as much here means we should find your words hold some water. So why should the BadWeB community believe you when you won't divulge the source of your information? I mean, what have you to hide? It's a pretty public story after all.
GEVI are a financial institution. That much is common knowledge. GEVI are part of the Banca Carige, Italy's oldest and largest bank. Banca Carige's President is Giovanni Berneschi. Deputy President Alessandro Scajola. Councillors Andrea Baldini, Giorgio Binda, Jean-Jacques Bonnaud and Luca Bonsignore. That's about as much as I can find out, other than applying for a job that is.
Please fisch, tell us where Claudio Castiglioni fits in with GEVI or Banca Carige, and tell us how you found out. I'm intrigued. Maybe I should just call Claudio instead. We are friends by the way.
Rocket |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:46 am: |
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By all means, call Claudio. However, I should be very much surprised if you got the full story as he's never been noted for forthrightness in his business dealings. But that merely makes him an Italian businessman. Believe or not, makes no difference t'me...I'm outta' here! |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 06:59 pm: |
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I'm outta' here!
20 posts in not quite 2 1/2 years. That's just what I expected from you fisch.
What's annoying about this is you drop in from time to time, make this huge sweeping statement about Castiglioni's business interests, then back it up with nothing. Well nothing other than you tell us you have a flat in Moscow and read some Turkish business paper.
You go on to say you're and 'insider'. Insider of what exactly?
All we know about you is your name, Robin Fischer, and you own an S1W. Oh yeah, and you're reluctant to give your story any credence.
Robin, I for one have a mild interested in MV's future, and I'd like to believe they do have one. When someone like yourself comes along making those kind of statements you should support them with facts if you're prepared to put them in the public domain.
Thanks for absolutely f all.
Rocket |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 02:42 am: |
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In my opinion, men like Castilioni are very important to the motorcycle industry. They have dreams, visions and a passion for racing. Back in the 90s CAGIVA was the only non-Jap company to race the 500cc and actually win races against the Jap giants and also win the PARIS-DAKAR. And do all that with limited resources. The CAGIVA GROUP now is very strong, as far as man power, since their research center, CRC have Tamburini (designed the Ducati 916) Galouchi (designed the Ducati Monster)and engineers with vast racing experience. For me the real progression of the 916 is the Agusta, since it was designed by Tamburini, who certainly knows how to make GREAT bikes.
Castiglioni wants to take things 1 step at a time and take the Agusta to the top. After doing well in Germany 2 years ago, winning the Italian superstock last season and almost winning the World Superstock, it is time to move to the biggest market : USA.
I think they will do a serious effort and they have a chance of winning.
As far as lap records, last year they reached a point that their bikes were way ahead at the World superstock. But 2 rounds before the end at IMOLA, after Scassa won the race,they were banned because some sensors at the rear wheel were discovered(possibly traction control). The other teams and riders said it was time FIM did something about it.
So maybe at their current test and their lap times are ILLEGAL.
I HOPE BUELL WILL DO A SERIOUS RACING EFFORT TOO. AND DO IT SOON. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 05:13 am: |
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Two of my closest friends are Greek, and just like always, you can trust a Greek to be the voice of reason.
Vagelis, that was a wonderfully insightful post about Castiglioni's importance to motorcycling. Some who seek to portray him as a dishonest businessman fail to see what a great ambassador for motorcycling he is. You said so in so few words. Thanks.
Rocket |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 09:56 am: |
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I would not say that Castiglioni is dishonest but I would say the Italian's do business differently than Americans, British and many others peoples that I have bought from. Sometime the shenanigans may seem a bit over the top to us non-mediteranians but criminal? not any more often than any one else.
If you are going to deal effectively with Italians you need to learn the code and I thing Proton didn't bother to learn it and thus got taken to the cleaners in a completely legal and ethical way.
I never had to deal with the Italian's enough to learn that code, someone else got that headache.
I used to have a Sicilian girlfriend. Yelling and screaming at you did not mean she was actually really mad at you just a little worked up. Mad was when the large heavy objects where sailing at your head. As long as she gave you time to duck she still loved you. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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Wow Dave, you dated a Sicilian chick and lived to tell the tale 
Rocket |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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I AM GOOD AT DUCKING! |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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quote:but I would say the Italian's do business differently than Americans
Dave, Vickie would like to talk to you.
I torn a piece of paper from a tablet and am going to make a small mark (they'll have to be very small to get them all on the page) each time you and she discuss you "dissin'" Italians.
You are braver than I.
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Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 05:47 pm: |
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I'm not dissin, just saying they are different.
You've heard the old joke, the difference between Heaven and Hell;
In Heaven the Italians are the lovers, the French the cooks, the Germans the mechanics the British the cops and the Swiss organize everything.
In Hell the Swiss are the lovers, the British the cooks, the French the mechanics the Germans the cops and the Italians organize everything. |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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There is another man who I wish could do a fraud like Castilioni and stay on top of his company : Former president of the Aprilia group IVAN BEGGIO.
This man was very important to the motorbike industry because he was a dreamer who wanted to do great things and because he simply really liked bikes. What he achieved is :
1. Make Aprilia from a scooter and small 2-stroke manufacturer to a motorcycle manufacturer. During his days decent bikes like the Mille and Tuono were created.
2. Aprilia took part to the world Superbike championship with riders like Corser.
3. Aprilia was the first non-Jap company to enter the 4-stroke motoGP era with the RS cube which was a magnificent motorcycle. It was the first bike to try pneumaticaly driven valves. Then they found that the bike needed to revise the position of mounting the swing-arm to the frame. But they already had run out of money.
4. Aprilia bought Moto-Guzzi in an attempt to enter the US market with custom bikes.
But his passion for racing and creating a new Giant motorcycle company left him with no money. Then Aprilia was bought from Piaggio and he lost his place. The last years that BEGGIO is not in charge of Aprilia :
1. Aprilia is out of the Superbike series.
2. Aprilia is out of the MotoGP
I wish BEGGIO could do what Castilioni did and fool some very rich giantCompany from the East. Then Aprilia would still be racing in Superbikes and motoGP.
If it takes economical tricks for men like BEGGIO and Castilioni to keep the control of their motorcycle companies, so be it.
I think Erik Buell is from the same mold as these two men. Without men like them, we would still be driving boring Jap bikes with no character.
ITALIANS SHOULD STAY THE WAY THEY ARE, AND KEEP US WATCHING MOTORCYCLE RACES. AS LONG AS THEY CREATE BIKES LIKE DUCATI, BIMOTA, MV-AGUSTA THEY CAN DO BUSSINESS ANYWAY THEY LIKE.
At least they do not go around the world bombing "HOSTILE" countries.
SO, THANK YOU IVAN BEGGIO, nice try, I hope you are well. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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The last years that BEGGIO is not in charge of Aprilia :
1. Aprilia won the 2006 125 and 250 Moto GP constructors and rider's championships
2. Aprilia won the 2004 and 2006 S2 Supermoto constructor's and rider's Championships
and...
3. Will return to World Superbike with their new V4 powered bike
Piaggio has not done so bad. |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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Excerpt from the AgendaDaily.... As GLC and PLC managers, they are accountable not only to their registered shareholders. They are responsible to every citizen of this country.
So when the new Proton management sold the Italian motorcycle manufacturer, MV Agusta, for a nominal one Euro (RM4.50), it must explain why.
At the point of writing, Proton’s management stood by its statement to the Securities Commission dated Dec 27, 2005, and an earlier clarification dated Dec 23, 2005, that it was justified in selling the asset.
In response to the development, Dr Mahathir and Tengku Mahaleel, the company’s former managing director, jointly lodged a complaint with the commission on Jan 3, 2006. The following is their joint statement:
‘As the people who were responsible for the purchase of Meccanica Verghera Agusta (MV Agusta) motorcycle manufacturer of Italy, we, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad and Tengku Tan Sri Mahaleel Tengku Ariff, think Proton owes an explanation to Proton shareholders and to the public the reason a company that was bought for Euro 70 million (RM315 million) was sold for one Euro (RM4.50).
‘This sale must cause Proton to lose RM315 million less RM4.50. Assuming that this relieves Proton from paying the losses incurred by MV Agusta over the 15 months at Euro 26.87 million (or RM131 million), it would still lose the purchase price of Euro 70 million (RM315 million) by selling off at one Euro.
‘There is now no possibility for Proton to turn around the company and regain its purchase price, if not make a profit. Of course Proton will now not get access to MV Agusta engineering technology.
‘Proton bought MV Agusta knowing full well that it has a debt of Euro 232 million, which it does not have to pay for three years. MV Agusta has assets in the form of two plants (in Cassinetta and Morazzone) and stocks of motorcycles.
‘In addition MV Agusta owns three brands – MV Agusta, Cagiva and Husqvarna. The MV Agusta F4 1000 Tamburini is recognised as the best sports motorcycle in the world. All these brands have high values.
‘MV Agusta’s technology in motorcycle and small engines is acknowledged by the industry as second to none.
‘Lost-making automotive companies like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Skoda, Lamborghini, Aston Martin and many others have been bought by stronger companies and have been turned around. But the prices reflect the assets and the brand. As far as we know they were not sold for one Euro.
‘The question is can Proton turn around MV Agusta? Until lately Proton has been profitable. It built its facilities in Tanjung Malim for RM1.8 billion with its own money – no borrowings and no injection of capital from the Government.
‘After building this facility Proton still has more than RM2 billion in cash. Proton was a profitable company and must know something about management to make profits.
‘The recent loss by Proton is said to be due to provisions made for MV Agusta loans. But in answer to questions by the Press, a Proton manager (Datuk Maruan Mohd Said, chief executive officer of Proton Edar Sdn Bhd) admitted that the discounts given have affected the profits of Proton. Unfortunately, no figures are given.
‘But apparently a total of 54,000 cars were sold in three months, with rebates and large discounts, which included free registration, free insurance, free first instalment payment for three months and free service. Roughly the discount per car would be around RM2,000 or more. At RM2,000 on 54,000 cars, Proton would forego RM108 million. The increase in the number sold cannot make up for the amount foregone.
‘These figures, which reflect a failed strategy have not been given. Instead the loss is attributed to provision for debts of MV Agusta. When provisions are made for bad debts, it does not necessarily mean that the debts cannot be recovered.
‘Besides how is the quantum determined? The debts of MV Agusta are frozen in any case and they do not have to be paid immediately. Has the amount provided been paid so as to reduce MV Agusta’s debts or is it still with Proton when MV Agusta was sold at one Euro?
‘There are in fact many questions which have to be answered regarding the sale at one Euro of an entity that was bought at Euro 70 million.
‘Who offered to sell or who offered to buy at one Euro? Were there other bidders? Was there an attempt to get the buyer to pay a higher price? Was there an announcement that MV Agusta was up for sale? If not did Proton approach only one bidder? If other bidders were offered, did they reject? Who in fact made the decision to sell?
‘Can Proton explain how selling an entity bought at Euro 70 million for one Euro would not cause Proton to lose money as is claimed?
‘Gevi SpA is not a household name in the automotive industry. Is it a motorcycle company, confident that it can turn around MV Agusta, something that the sale by Proton implies that Proton has no capacity or ability to turn it around? Not having to pay Euro 70 million will be an advantage for Gevi.
‘These are questions that need answering. As the two people most involved in the purchase of MV Agusta, our credibility and honesty is at stake. We want to know the correct answers. The public too may want to know as Proton is a National project.’ |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Malaysiakini interviewed Tun M recently and among the topics discussed were his views of how the government is treating Proton. Here is the extract of the relevant part of the interview:
And, of course, when you sell Agusta, you’ll give away both sides actually. Something that you bought for RM500 million, you give away to some people. I still question - what is the name of the company which got it? As far as I can trace, this is a 2 euro company set up in 2005 and the only purpose for setting it up is to buy Agusta. Now, there must be some collaboration. Why are these Italians setting up this company to buy Agusta long before we know Agusta is up for sale?
So there’s no track record...
There’s no track record as far as we can make out. The name of the company is very peculiar. It is called Gevi SpA. There is a Gevi SpA listed in the Italian companies register,but that is a totally different company. It deals with manpower. You can get this on the Internet. It has nothing to do with the purchase of Agusta. This [...] is not a company that is normally registered, but it is a name given to it by a legal firm. The legal firm created this entity, and this entity bought Agusta for 2 dollars. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 09:22 pm: |
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I don't think there's any doubt who GEVI are or their parent company Banka Carige.
I was curious to know where someone in this thread got their information from claiming Claudio Castiglioni was in some way involved in the company who now own MV.
Witch hunts never have any basis in facts.
Rocket |
Jscott
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 03:39 pm: |
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Daytona Pirelli tire test starts tommorrow...
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Dec/061206r.ht m
Go Ferracci! |
Jscott
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 03:30 pm: |
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Nice little piece. Basically 07 AMA is a precursor to 08 WSBK.
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID= 10262
Some highlights:
"MV Agusta, which is based in Varese, Italy, and Ferracci jointly decided to take on the racing project in the U.S. to increase its profile. Ferracci, who is the U.S. importer for the brand, sells 700-800 MV’s a year.
“It’s time to go racing, we need to go racing at another level,” Ferracci said the Castiglione family decided. “It’s a lot of work.”
“We need to be here because the American market is the most important in the world,” Ferracci said. “We need to continue. If we do good here, we’ll do that. If we don’t do good here, we may need to do more development.” |
Jscott
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 03:55 pm: |
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Scassa injured...
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Dec/061207eds. htm
Daytona can be ruthless. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 04:59 pm: |
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Some pics...
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2006/ama/tire -test/mv1/
The bikes still seem to be very much in SuperStock trim for now. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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Update.
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID= 10263 |
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