| Author | Message | ||
     12r |
Trojan said: Just found this... http://www.superbike.co.uk/imageBank/p/Pedrosa1.jpg Not very PC but very funny methinks Classic !  | ||
| Trojan |
I thought he was saying... 'Dash it Dani old boy, that was a rather tardy braking manoevre don't you think. Oh well, back to the garage for tea and tiffin I suppose. Shall I pour?' Mind you, my lipreading skills for the Kentucky accent may be a littel rusty  | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm deaf as a f**king post, but even I heard The Kentucky Kid in Yorkshire! Some of you guys are pissed. I've watched and watched and watched the Pedrosa move, and whilst most crying foul are making out he T boned Hayden that is absolute bollocks. If you care to take your biased hat off, Pedrosa is the only one not to approach the left hander from the far side of the track. He looks like he's found a good line for a pass down the inside if you ask me. He's approaching with perfect poise and attitude. Yes his foot is off the peg (Rossi does this often) which means nor proves nothing, and the pass he is making on Hayden is actually brilliant. Or at least the line he's taking is. If there had not been a painted line issue, and Hayden had seen Pedrosa down the inside, Hayden might have picked his bike up a little. Instead Hayden is seemingly oblivious to Pedrosa's position but if you care to view the video it is clear to see that Pedrosa and Hayden are as close to neck and neck as possible. It is also at this point that Pedrosa loses the front. Look closely because you can see both bikes front wheels are all but level when Pedrosa's front tucks. Any other day of the week and that pass might just have paid off for the Spaniard. Gutsiest move I ever saw (from Top Gun, lol) No matter the outcome, there is nowhere before both riders committed to the corner that Pedrosa could have gone other than where he did. He certainly didn't T bone Hayden. In any other circumstance, not losing the front seems a tad unlucky for the bold charging Spaniard, we'd all be saying it was a fantastic pass. Call me what you like. I know how to view a video and I have no vested interest in the outcome. That said, Pedrosa is a possible world champion. That is easy for all to see. Hayden on the other hand is not and never was. "This was supposed to be my year" is more an admission of 'how lucky I've been' and 'I know I'll never get another shot'. Sez it all really. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
I've watched and watched and watched again. I don't think Pedrosa touched the painted line at all. It appears that a bump on the track pitches Pedrosa's steering to the right momentarily then it comes left and tucks. Rocket | ||
| Holling |
Nicky has won two races this year and had numerous podium finishes. That is how you win championships. He is probably the most consistant and mistake free rider out there. Is he as talented as Rossi? Maybe not. But talent alone does not win Championships | ||
| Skully |
The view out the rear of Hayden's bike is the most telling in my opinion. Pedrosa is charging up the inside, hits the painted curbing, loses the front and takes his teammate out of contention for the world championship. No matter how you see this video, it was the wrong thing for him to do. As a result, *Honda* is out. | ||
| Rocketman |
At the corner apex both bikes are side by side level. I don't think Pedrosa touched the paint. It looks like a bump disturbed front grip. Either way, Pedrosa was in the title chase too. If Hayden and Rossi had got into one and taken each other out, or either hadn't finished one race, Pedrosa would have had a chance of the title in Spain and in front of his home crowd. I like the gutsy little freaker. Got balls has the lad. No playing safe. He went for it like a real racer. He knew, like everyone else, Hayden wasn't going to win the Portugese race, nor the title come to it. Rocket | ||
| Bads1 |
That exactly what Rossi and Hayden would have done in order for Pedrosa to be in contention. | ||
| Aussie_buell |
Its hard for me to sum up my point of view. I personally dont like Padrosa too much but as it has been said he is gutsy, he has shown up so many other riders who have been doing this sh*t for years and make up excuses, and he obviously has talent. Rocket man was right, Dani was also in the hunt, just as much as anyone else and he had every right to chase for a win, i just dont think he tried it at the right time, there was plenty more laps still. As for Nicky, well him saying it was supposed to be his year etc etc, nothing is written down like that, he had a massive lead and let it get worn down with his poor results in the last 4 races conseeding 39 points. Sorry but a world champion doesn't go from pole and 1st place one week to 9th the next with several 5ths to follow when he is defending his lead unless he has major mechanicals or a crash, and then says its supposed to be his year. NOPE Nicky was playing the SAFE game, taking it easy hoping his lead was enough. Having said that he can ride better then me  and is obviously talented, and his consistency has lead him this close at the end which is sometimes what it is all about. And before you say it - I know Nicky said all that in the heat of the moment, I think in post interviews he held himself well. But there are some interesting stats for the season and when you look at em, if there is ever a deserving rider to win the title its Rossi whether you are a fan or not. Don't forget Rossi missed posting results for 3 races and had a shocker for the first race. If you take an avery of 3rd place for Rossi he would have had an 48 points. Too many could have beens. Imagine if what could have been if the wasnt a crash in Cataluna, The end results may be very different. Just my take. Its a racing incident, they could all be knocked off at any time, whos to say something wont happen next GP also. I love the racing, I want Rossi to win, but I dont want to see any one hurt or crash. What if Hayden had of picked up his bike and rode it a bit more, maybe have fixed it in pits he only had to beat McCoy he could have narrowed the lead. Who knows Hey if you want to pick on anyone we should pic on MR Excuses Roberst Jnr, man he comes up with em does'nt he. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
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| Davidh72z |
But the most important rule when racing is... the person who is doing the passing IS RESPONSIBLE to ensure that the pass is done safely!!!if you can't do without contact, or taking out the other racers then don't do it. No matter how you look at it, Dani was doing the passing and caused the crash so therefore he is at fault. It doesn't matter if Rossi, Hayden, or anyone else can and does do it regularly, if when they try and a "bump" causes them to loose traction then it would be their fault just the same. In racing there is NO excuse acceptable including "I thought I could get through there." (Message edited by davidh72z on October 18, 2006) | ||
| Jackbequick |
I think the video clips speak for themselves. As I see it, Pedrosa was a little faster and closing on the approach but had a line that was not going to work as it would cross Hayden's line. Pedrosa tried to tighten his line, got up on the paint (he calls it the zebra) and tucked the wheel. I do see a movement just before the tuck that looks like the back of Pedrosa's bike hops up a little, I thought that might be from braking but it is not clear. Pedrosa seems to support that description and shoulders responsibility for what happened in his interview: "Well I just couldn't stop the bike..." "But I was braking normal and just..." "Nicky was in the corner and I felt I was going too fast to him..." "But my speed, it seems good for me..." "But anyway, I try to don't touch him you know, then I go very inside and I touch the zebra and and then my front wheel slide and my bike hit his bike and then the grass..." "I don't know what I can say, I can say sorry to him because I..., its..." "The only thing I can do for him now..." "But for sure he's upset and I full understand." Jack | ||
| Bosezone |
In my view, the biggest mistake made was Honda NOT giving any team orders at all. We all saw what Edwards did for Rossi. That was brilliant. He gave Rossi the edge he needed by laying back just enough to slow things up, but he also left himself a fighting chance if the opportunity came later in the race by staying close. As a team, you DO NOTHING to jeapordize a teamate who is leading the championship points at such a critical race. That said, if a REASONABLE Opportunity comes up you are free to go for it, It is that simple and logical. Roberts new this, ran a clean race and almost won it too. Honda AND Dani dropped the championship with dumb decisions. | ||
| Skully |
Amen Al. | ||
| Blake |
Sean, "it is clear to see that Pedrosa and Hayden are as close to neck and neck as possible." Wrong, not even close. One camera angle does deceivingly give that impression but it is false as the bikes are not anywhere near directly across the track from the camera. Pedro's front wheel ran into Nicky's rear wheel. Pedrosa has balls? If he had balls, he'd have been over to see if Nicky was okay on the spot and trying to help or at least apologize. Pedro's move was not "gutsy", it was foolish and absolutely one of the most immature idiotic moves I've witnessed in professional motorcycle road racing. "Pedrosa is a possible world champion. That is easy for all to see. Hayden on the other hand is not and never was." I don't see it in MotoGP and I'll put money on it. Good grief. You sure have it in for Hayden and are hard for Pedro. You have some kind of fetish for petite young boys? You aren't running for Here's the simple truth dear Sean. Competing against the very best racers in the world, no-one who is not championship worthy will enter the final race of the season just 8 points out of the championship lead. Period. All the rest is just bias. I wouldn't bet against Hayden or Rossi. Hayden is now as determined and focused as ever. He will be extremely tough to beat. Take that to the bank. Maybe this is exactly what he needed to gain the respect he deserves. If he beats Rossi at Valencia, no-one can rightly say that he doesn't measure up. If he defeats Rossi and wins the championship, no-on can rightly claim that he didn't earn it. | ||
| Trojan |
Talented as Mr Hayden (and the rest of his family) obviously is, I can't see how he can think that this was supposed to be 'His' season. Yes he scored consistent podium finishes at the beginning to mid season, but lets face facts. He is he is THE number one rider of the best bike in the paddock, for the biggest team in the world, and has been there for 4 years, so there are no excuses any more. There are a number of riders who are more than capable of jumping on the Honda and winning, in fact many have done so on lower spec 'customer' Hondas this year (and last year), so Nicky hasn't yet proved that he is head and shoulders better than everyone else and deserving of the title. Remember he has been equalled this year by his team mate who is in his very first season on the big bikes. If this was 'His' season he would have won a lot more races than he has so far, and his win record isn't great is it? In the unlikely event that the last race comes down to a last lap dust up between Rossi & Hayden do you really think that Hayden would win it? Hayden has to finish 2 places ahead of Rossi, and Rossi has nothing to lose if they are both taken out of contention if necessary, and has shown time and again that he is the toughest customer out there on a last lap, last corner situation. Admittedly Elias did win the last round in similar circumstances, but do you really think that Rossi would have allowed Hayden to do the same? We should all stop feeling sorry for Nicky, ignore nationality issues and just face the stark facts. Yes he got punted in to the gravel, well so did Rossi earlier in the year. If Nicky had won more races he'd already be world champion, but he hasn't. The title isn't his just because he wants it to be. Rossi has suffered far more bad luck than Nicky all year and is still not only in with a shout, but 8 points in front. If Hayden doesn't win the title this year then I think his days as numero uno at Honda will be numbered unfortunately. They took a big gamble on him by making him the number one rider and development rider, and it hasn't worked. Honda have shown many times in the past that individual riders mean nothing to them, and if he can't deliver they WILL replace him. A few years ago some riders kept their top slots simply because there were not enough talented riders making the grade at world level. That is no longer the case, and Honda are now having to keep some talented riders in lesser series (and make wild promises for 2008!) simply because they don't have enough team slots for them. Sooner or later the pressure will be too great and it will be Nicky's head that will roll. | ||
| Rocketman |
But there are some interesting stats for the season and when you look at em, if there is ever a deserving rider to win the title its Rossi whether you are a fan or not. Nothing is more true this season. Pedrosa tried to tighten his line, got up on the paint (he calls it the zebra) and tucked the wheel. The more I watch the clip the more I don't believe he touched the paint until the front was already gone. It looks like the front hit a bump and caused a tad too much counter, then it tucked after countering the counter. I doubt Ped's watched the clip that intensely - if at all, but maybe he isn't really aware of what caused the front to go. I certainly don't see him cutting into Hayden's line. In fact his line looks pretty impressive to me. Wrong, not even close. One camera angle does deceivingly give that impression but it is false as the bikes are not anywhere near directly across the track from the camera. Blake you need to go to Specsavers man. Camera angle my arse. There front wheels are side by size give or take a cats •••• hair. Pedro's front wheel ran into Nicky's rear wheel. Yes it did, but Hayden's bike was moving forward whilst Ped's was falling. If they hadn't damn near been side by side then Ped's front wouldn't have caught Hayden's rear when it tucked. Hayden would have been nearly a bike length past Ped's laying down front. If he had balls, he'd have been over to see if Nicky was okay on the spot and trying to help or at least apologize. Ped said he thought better about it after seeing Hayden's rage in the gravel, so left his apology / explanation for the motorhome. You sure have it in for Hayden and are hard for Pedro. Ped's the coming man. Hayden has never done it for me, but I'll tell you this much in complete honesty. I've seen a couple or three races on TV this season in the company of my missus who thinks I spend far too much time on this crap, lol. She absolutely thinks Ped's got something very special YET SHE KNOWS ZILCH ABOUT RACING. She sees Ped and yet with all her unknowledgeable two wheeled racing perspective she sees talent. She also said he's gonna beat that Rossi guy. Spiritual or what? Call Mulder and Skully? You have some kind of fetish for petite young boys? That's beside the point sweetie, but you of all people Blake, stooping to personal insults on the BadWeB. Shame on you! Here's the simple truth dear Sean. Competing against the very best racers in the world, no-one who is not championship worthy will enter the final race of the season just 8 points out of the championship lead. Period. I couldn't agree more and I think Hayden's a fantastic smooth fast rider, but it takes more to win a title than he's perhaps given. Put it this way, do you really think he'll ever have the opportunity like he had since Laguna? You know he won't and that's the harsh reality. Let's take it further. If Hayden wins it this year you think he has a chance of winning again next year? Not a chance in hell I'd wager. Sorry, he might be world class, no doubt. But he ain't world champ. He just isn't in the same league as any previous American world champ, and that's what it's gonna take to be Rossi, Pedrosa, Melandri and a few others. Hayden is now as determined and focused as ever. He will be extremely tough to beat. Take that to the bank. Maybe this is exactly what he needed to gain the respect he deserves. If he beats Rossi at Valencia, no-one can rightly say that he doesn't measure up. If he defeats Rossi and wins the championship, no-on can rightly claim that he didn't earn it. I couldn't agree more, and I'd love for your sake that he proves your faith in him just. Such a feat though is unlikely, and I'd have to say Matt is right on the money. Honda will dump Hayden after giving him little attention compared to others next season. That has always been Hondas reward for failure. Rocket | ||
| Aussie_buell |
Amen Rocketman   } | ||
| Valentino_rossi |
So, after thee race on Sunday we have a beeg party, even Coleen wass there. And I invited that farkweet Pedrosa (nice work Dani) but Dr.Costa had geeven heem some medceen for hees leetle feenger and told heem to stay offa thee booze. Neekee couldn't make eet either, hee wass testing some clutch plates - ha ha loser ! For sure eyeam excited about thee next race at Valencia and if mye byke iss good, the only 990cc MotoGP Champion weel be mee ! Ciao  | ||
| Trojan |
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| Glitch |
I can't see how he can think that this was supposed to be 'His' season. Right after he said that he thought May-an, did I say that out loud?! I don't think Nicky said that it was his year because someone told him that. I think he meant that he had just worked as hard as he could to get where he was, only to be taken out by something he had no control over. | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket, I gotta disagree, I say it was Dani's mistake. He should not have been trying to get inside Nicky. Perhaps he pulls it off, so what it pushing Nicky off the fast line and causes hime to turn a slower lap, not what he needs to do to win the championship. You didn't see Edwards pushing Rossi at all, just slowing up the guys behind him. At this point in the season, with the title on the line, Dani needs to defend Nicky. The ONLY miniscule shot Dani had at the title involved both Hayden and Rossi getting zip points in two races so he had no title hopes. He had no business trying that move in that race. I do think Honda is tossing Hayden under the bus. Don't know why, perhaps they agreee with you that he does not have what it takes and Dani does. | ||
| Jaimec |
Nicky and Dani are NOT on equivalent machines. Nicky is riding the development bike, Dani (and everyone else) is on the "customer" bike, so Nicky has all the unproven, bleeding edge equipment. Why do you think he's had such problems at the start? Because Honda can't get that furshlugginer clutch dialed in correctly. Dani's bike runs as well as it does because of the work Nicky's done for the factory. The fact that Nicky is competitive on the bleeding edge bike says a LOT for his skill as a rider. I'm no Nicky fan, but give the man his due. The villain here is HRC. That's why Rossi left them in the first place; because they put a higher premium on the machine than they did on the rider. HRC's philosophy is that it doesn't matter WHO rides their machines, they will be champion. Rossi went to Yamaha to prove them wrong and the fact that he CONTINUES to prove them wrong doesn't seem to sink in at HRC. It's the RIDER, not the machine, that determines the championship. | ||
| Blake |
Rossi never had his team mate take him out. BIG DIFFERENCE! If Nicky truly did make some kind of statement about it being "his year", he was referring to the team and his status as #1 rider, not that he was "supposed" to win the championship. Pedro did not behave like the support rider he was "supposed" to be at Estoril. All the effusive pontificating is girly silliness to me. Whoever wins the championship is the one who is champion, period. That sure as heck ain't going to be Pedro. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Valentino, now that you are a member of Badweb, is there any truth to the rumour that you will be riding the Moto GP version of the new 4 valve water cooled Buell superbike next year? | ||
| Bosezone |
People keep talking about Nicky not being championship quality. Folks, he was leading the championship going into last weekend. He EARNED it straight up head to head against Rossi and Dani. Just what does a rider have to do to prove himself. This is not speculation, it is FACT. Championships are won by skill AND talent. Roberts Jr won the championship in 2000 with only 4 wins. I don't think he was the FASTEST rider that year, but he won the championship. Nicky did everything he could to position himself for the championship, he matured, adapted and acheived amazing results IN SPITE of the fact that he is NOT the fastest rider out there. Dani, on the other had has raw talent that rivals Rossi, but he has a lot of maturing to do. He needs to be smarter. He will probably win a handful of MotoGP championships. But he made a foolish and costly mistake last Sunday anyway you cut it. | ||
| Trojan |
People keep talking about Nicky not being championship quality. Folks, he was leading the championship going into last weekend. He EARNED it straight up head to head against Rossi and Dani. I'm afraid I see it that he rather inherited it as a result of Rossi's bad luck rather than Hayden's quality. Take a look at the results where both riders have finished, and Rossi takes it by a mile. Nicky is a good rider, but his performances have been flattered by the Honda I feel. I would like to see how he would get on riding the Yamaha or Ducati. | ||
| Blake |
Cause none of the other 16+ competitors wanted to "inherit" the championship lead? What bullocks! And this from someone who runs a race team. I just don't get it. | ||
| Blake |
I agree with Bose, for sure Rossi is the better/faster rider. That in and of itself does not a championship win. The bike matters. And finishing races matters. Some people are confusing a championship with talent. They are not one in the same. | ||
| Bads1 |
This is like one big pissing contest and nobady wins. Everyone has there opininion that does not make you right. Nicky was on development bike much of the season so the fight was harder for him. Rossi had his own problems with his bike in the Yamaha camp. Its called racing and that is all part of it. So geez take a  break. |
