| Author | Message | ||
     Eboos |
Results below. Do not read if you are going to watch the broadcast on Speed TV. Melandri Vermeulen Rossi Gibernau Hayden Stoner Capirossi Nakano Elias Tamada De Puniet Hopkins Hofmann Roberts Jr Pedrosa Ellison Cardoso That pretty much shatters Pedrosa's chances at the title. He is now 33 points behind. Rossi is now only 21 points behind Hayden. 3 races left. I didn't even come close on my predictions. No Dainese shirt for me. I guess the wet made things a little crazy. Checa and Edwards DNF. (Message edited by eboos on September 17, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
SPOILER WARNING That's the difference I was trying to get across earlier where Hayden and Rossi are with one another. The last lap Hayden is almost at Rossi, and he should have pushed beyond the envelope. How can I say that. I wasn't riding. Rossi showed exactly what Hayden should have done to him, by him (Rossi) doing it to Gibernau. Rossi's last half of the last lap was what pushing that bit extra is all about. Great racing. Rocket | ||
| Davegess |
q Hayden rode it right. He gave away 2 place to Rossi so he is still in charge. If he crashes out then he gives away most of his lead. I think that Hayden can finish one place behind Rossi for each of the next three weeks and win the championship with a bit of a cushion. Nicky is doing just what Doug Chandler did when he was winning all his AMA championships, riding each race as part of the championship not as an idividual race. Winnign the championship is what is important, beating someone each week is not. The whole battle versus the wat thing. Go Nick | ||
| Rocketman |
No one wants a champion who can't win races. Rocket | ||
| Jackbequick |
I'd like to see both of them ride the rest of the races like they were trying to win each one of them. I can understand the rationale of "backing into a Championship" but I don't particularly care to be watching that compared to watching two guys who are trying to win. Jack | ||
| Diablobrian |
You can't win a championship if you don't finish the races. Especially at this point in the season. I agree JBQ. Unfortunately the sponsors are more interested in having the championship as a marketing tool than they are in having really hard racing at the end of the season. | ||
| Blake |
Hayden has won two races this year. Expect him to win more. He also came from as far back as 16th place after a very (too) conservatively run damp lap one to run down Rossi and save what looked like was going to be a disaster for him. He's going to win the championship. He did much the same when he won the AMA championship. | ||
| Davegess |
Nicky has won races Rocket. Just not as many as Val. Next year should be interesting assuming Rossi starts out well he an Nicky will have to go head to head each week. Off course Nicky may not be running a Honda next year, could he be on a Yamaha??? | ||
| Jimidan |
No one wants a champion who can't win races." Rocket That may be true, but to say that Nicky can't win races is a false premise. At this point in the season, he doesn't have to win races. He just has to finish ahead in the championship points. If Rossi and Dani hadn't been so far behind, then you would have seen a different Nicky Hayden. Before the next three races are over, Rossi may be close enough in points that Nicky will have to come out of championship mode and ride with more abandon. It may not be enough as Rossi is the greatest there ever was...but he will go down fighting, I assure you. It is the difference between riding with his brain or riding with his testicles. Champions ride smart...especially in the rain. Go Nicky | ||
| Rocketman |
To be clear, no one can doubt Hayden's ability. His charge yesterday was great. Rossi though, showed how those vital points to be grabbed make a champion. Rossi saw an opportunity to get that little bit closer to Hayden's points tally by stealing 3rd off Gibernau in the last two corners. That's a valuable 3 points gained in what, a quarter of a a mile? Hayden was happy to sit in fifth for 11 points, yet at the start of the last lap Hayden was all over the back of Rossi. So he had a choice. Fight or hold station. Fighting is too risky then? Well Rossi is 21 points behind and there's still 75 points up for grabs. There is every possibility Rossi could win all three remaining races. If Hayden takes 2nd in all three races, he will get the championship by 6 points if my math is correct. Can anyone see Hayden taking three 2nd places in a row at this stage of the game? Melandri and Pedrosa are only 32 points behind Hayden. This more than any other reason is why Hayden simply can't afford to let Rossi chip away at his points lead. These other two guys are going to be riding all out to pick up any scraps left behind by Rossi. In fact, if Rossi doesn't make the last three races for whatever reason, Hayden would have a very hard time winning the title from Pedrosa or Melandri. Think of it like this. Pedrosa and Melandri won't be racing Hayden. They'll be racing Rossi and each other knowing there's a great chance Hayden will be behind them. If that's the case, Hayden will be losing points whilst Rossi gains. Hayden can't afford to let Pedrosa or Melandri come between him and Rossi. This means Hayden is racing to beat Rossi, or just do enough to keep the points tally in his favour, which means beating Pedrosa and Melandri. Hayden is under serious pressure given his journeyman way to the title lead thus far. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
"Hayden was happy to sit in fifth for 11 points" I most strongly doubt that as much as I doubt that prior to his Yamaha pooping out on him that Rossi was happy running well behind Nicky at Laguna Seca. | ||
| Rocketman |
Actually, I take back that comment. I just checked the time sheet and Hayden was so close to Gibernau he was unlucky not to get past him too. Bring it on! Let's just hope that Hayden puts up a fight in the last three races because the season finale could be the best we've ever seen. You Yank's do realise there won't be a British rider in Moto GP next season don't ya? That's the shit deal we Brit's have complained about for years. We never get a top bike for a riders, instead kicking around at the back of the field making up the numbers on an old donkey. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Triumph should get in on the fun and field a British rider. Which one would you choose? At the moment there really isn't a Brit rider that is shining brightly enough to warrant a GP ride, is there? Which is strange for sure. Jezza would be the first choice, but he's not really British is he?  | ||
| Blake |
Toseland would be next? | ||
| Trojan |
Leon Haslam, Chaz Davies, Jonathan Rea, Leon Camier all spring to mind and are all young and experienced. Both Haslam and Davies have GP experience too. Davies was top privateer in 250GP until he ran out of money and got replaced in the team he was with by a paying Italian rider  Haslam has been linked with a ride in the Gresini team next year with Melandri, but this depends on the team finding a sponsor with the pullout of Fortuna at the end of the year. He has also been linked to the new British Ilmor 800cc MotoGP bike with Gary McCoy. Now that would be something  Ilmor have already committed to a couple of GPs this year with the bike and have stated that they will race next year even if they don't get sponsorship. First reports from their testing in Spain indicated that the bike was 1.5 seconds quicker than the Ducati around Valencia!  Jezza is a great rider and a perfect development rider, but I think past his best for MotoGP and at his age I can't see any of the top teams offering him a competitive ride. He is though under contract with BMW testing their bike, but that seems to be a long way from ready now and they have not placed an entry for 2007. | ||
| Davegess |
Nickt really needs a clutch. He has had to baby the clutch whenever he starts from a stop and as a result gets passed by everyone at the starts. At times it seems as if Honda is giving the advantage to Pedrosi. Nicky is always fighting a new setup with new parts each week and takes the first two pracitices to just get the bike close. Superbikeplanet reports that he is pushing back at Honda to stop with the updates and let him ride this years bike not develop next years bike. Also how about Rossi's pass under yellow? Shouldn't he be moved back a place? Not seeing it is not an excuse in my book. | ||
| Blake |
Dave, Is there documentation on that passing on yellow issue? I only heard the commentator mention it immediately before the program sign-off. | ||
| Davegess |
Don't know, just going by what superbikeplanet had to say. | ||
| Diablobrian |
The ruling body says that Rossi got re-passed -momentarily- so they didn't feel a penalty is warranted because the outcome was "probably not affected" I think a penalty is warranted if for no other reason than to discourage passing under a caution flag. Rossi is well aware of the rules. | ||
| Vonsliek |
rossi is rossi .. he walks on water & he's tall & blonde & italian .. just like most of the images of Christ that we worship, were based on .. a tall, blonde northern italian man. serious abt the images being based on that model. anyhoo .. one thing that wasn't really touched on: haystack is racing a DEVELOPMENT bike .. hence, it changes all the time. also, HONDA decide the development - probably more so than when vale was developing it. vale has said that hayden is NOT the right guy to be developing that bike. if hayden loses championship, u can BET honda will punish him. melandri deserves the factory ride over all the others. pedrosa getting lapped .. NOT a good thing. leon haslam likely to be brit in motogp. chas davies likely in bsb/supersport 600's. poor guy .. but as wesley snipes said in New Jack City: "money talks & bullshit runs marathons!" can anyone else see biaggi killing them on the suzuki in wsbk in '07?!! now THAT is something to look fwd to! (Message edited by vonsliek on September 20, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
First reports from their testing in Spain indicated that the bike was 1.5 seconds quicker than the Ducati around Valencia! I'm gonna swear here . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Freekin Fried Banana Skins!!$$**&^%?>£>$% Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
At the moment there really isn't a Brit rider that is shining brightly enough to warrant a GP ride, is there? Well actually there are several who could be at the top of Moto GP. Last weekends British Super Bike round at Silverstone saw 11 riders qualify inside the lap record set by the WSB boys. Yes that's because BSB isn't under a control tyre ruling, but never the less, fast is still fast. To answer your question Blake, Shakey Burn would get my vote any day of the week. He rides the wheels off anything he's ridden. Including those Moto GP donkeys they stuck him with a year or two ago. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Diablobrian sez: "The ruling body says that Rossi got re-passed -momentarily- so they didn't feel a penalty is warranted because the outcome was "probably not affected" I think a penalty is warranted if for no other reason than to discourage passing under a caution flag. Rossi is well aware of the rules." Either passing under the yellow is illegal or it isn't...it shouldn't matter if they speculated that the outcome was "probably not affected". It looked like it was affected to me. | ||
| Trojan |
The full story is that the organisers felt at the time that, although he had passed under a yellow flag, he allowed stoner to retake huim almost straight away so didn't incur a penalty. Having looked at the incident again later they admitted that they were wrong and that he should have been penalised, but that since the race had finished already there was nothing that they could do. The organisers did apolgise to Hayden afterwards, and although upset Hayden admitted that he probably wouldn't have beaten Rossi anyway. To add more murk to the waters, it also appears that the marshall at turn 3 should not ave been showing a yellow flag at the time anyway, much less waving it, as the incident in question had been dealt with and thre track was already clear ahead. This marshall had already been complained about by Rossi in practice for doing exactly the same thing. Should Rossi have been punished....probably not in my view. It was an honest racing incident that nobody really gained an advantage from. Stoner did re-pass Rossi, only to be duffed up again a few corners later. Stoner is complaining about Rossi being too aggressive in his overtaking, but no change there then. That is what makes Rossi a multi world champion and Stoner a rookie. As for Shakey back in MotoGP...I doubt that will happen any time soon, having had his one and only chance that British riders seem to be given in MotoGP. He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since returning to BSB either, and it looks like his job is on the line at Suzuki now. I would love to see Leon Haslam back in the top class and think that Chaz Davies certainly deserves at least a test. Neither can be any worse than James Ellison has been this year. | ||
| Davegess |
The Brits have the same problem the Americans have only in spades. The Spanish control the series and have the bucks. Spanish guys get shots before other deserving nationalites because they sell stuff in Spain. The British guys want to ride MotoGP so badly they take •••••• rides and then get labeled as slow. The guys in AMA make really good money and since Americans don't see the races on live TV every week and NO reporting outside of the MC press the desire to go the GP's is not as intense so they can hold out for top ntoch rides. | ||
| Trojan |
It is a great pity in a way that the AMA series pays so well. If it wasn't so attractive for riders to stay put we may have seen more of Mat Mladin, and Ben Spies may not have signed his whole career over to AMA Superbikes, as he now appears to have done. Tommy Hayden is interviewed in this month's Motorcycle Racer magazine (the same one with the test of the XBRR published) and even he says that the US riders have it too easy when it comes to money, and that it stops them looking for world rides. Personally I think it should be compulsory for all top riders to race on the world stage for at least one season. Maybe the top 5 from each major domestic series have to do a season in a World Superbikes/MotoGP series instead of rides going to big paying riders. This in reality would never happen unfortunately because the sponsors run the show these days. That is why we now have GP's staged in China or the middle of the desert with hardly any paying spectators, just so they can show the cigarette sponsorship once in a while. | ||
| Blake |
Rossi is blonde?  Jesus is depicted a a blonde? Hey! How cool is it to refer to Nicky Hayden as "haystack"? Do you call him that in person too? People sure are funny. Rocket, You sure do put the BSB crowd up on a tall pedestal. Did you note back in 2004 the stark difference in race lap times between the AMA SBK and WSB riders? It was significant. Tires matter. | ||
| Trojan |
I don't think Rocket was casting aspertions on the quality of the top riders in AMA Superbike with his comment about lap times. The top 10 riders in the AMA championship are as good as anywhere in the world, although even according to Neil Hodgson the quality of riders does seem to lack the depth of the BSB series. This again may be to do with the relative isolation of the US series in comparison to the rest of the world and is certainly not to be viewed as a criticism of US riders in general. Over here in Europe we get a lot of riders moving between domestic and world series all the time, with some doing wild card rides in WSB as well as the BSB season. The BSB series is used not only to groom teams and riders for WSB but also by riders who have stepped down a rung from the very top echelons and are still extremely competitive, such as Lavilla. Hopefully 2008 will see a standard set of rules for the WSB,BSB,AMA and other Superbike championships throughout the world, which will allow more riders to compete on a world level without having to change the spec of their machines or swap tyre manufacturers just for one race. | ||
| Vonsliek |
yes rossi is blonde - dark blonde - esp.for italian. jesus in catholic paintings is nearly always dark blonde - that is NOT true brown haired -if u lack the history knowledge & observational skills, thats yr issue. haystack is what a LOT of ppl call poor old (yeah right) nicky - whom i like. & yeah it IS funny .. & no i would NOT call him that .. but tis is a forum & since when did draconican laws apply & since when were elected sherrif?! some ppl are so funny. oh yeah .. since when did the forum rules deny personal expression & iconoclastic speculation?? | ||
| Rocketman |
Thanks to the grey haired Godfather Gess. That in a nutshell is exactly what's going on. Blake, I must thank Matt for his wonderful comments in this thread. Obviously his knowledge of racing is far superior to mine, but our observations from time to time might be quite similar. That is certainly the case in this instance. Matt you nailed it. I will add one thing Blake. You really need to see BSB in the flesh. Choose a track and I'll fly you over all expenses paid, when I make my first million  Rocket | ||
| Daves |
Melandri Vermeulen Rossi Gibernau Hayden Stoner Capirossi Nakano Elias Tamada De Puniet Hopkins Hofmann Roberts Jr Pedrosa Ellison Cardoso Troy Frankenfurter There I fixed it  That was a good race! Great move Rossi put on Gibernau to take 3rd and leave Nicky 5th Classic Rossi move to gain a couple points. I hope Nicky can pull off the championship but it is far from "in the bag" for him. Melandri ran a great race! | ||
| Rocketman |
Melandri Vermeulen Rossi Gibernau Hayden Stoner Capirossi Nakano Elias Tamada De Puniet Hopkins Hofmann Roberts Jr Pedrosa Ellison Cardoso Wild Rocket Pepper Troy Frankenfurter Nope, I fixed it  Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Go Nicky! Vonsliek, Rossi ain't blonde, neither are most depictions of Jesus; Christians don't worship images. Good grief.    I find it disrespectful to refer to Mr. Hayden as you have. He's not my friend; I don't know him at all outside of racing. I just have a lot of respect and admiration for the man and find your glib name-calling unfortunate, so I mentioned it. No sheriff action going on here. Just someone sticking-up/speaking-up in the face of derisive commentary for another whom he respects and admires. Is that really "draconian"? I sure don't think so. Exaggeration is unhelpful. Iconoclastic speculation is fine as is personal expression within the guidelines to which you agreed when registering for participation here. Would you agree that it is okay for others to challenge and/or rebutt your iconoclastic speculation and/or personal expressions should they feel compelled to do so? Yes? Okay then, lighten up Francis. (Message edited by Blake on September 20, 2006) | ||
| Davegess |
i hope that at some point in these last three races it comes down to who wins that race. I may rach that point in the last race, That would be cool if Hayden, Rossi, Melandri and Pedrosi are so close in points that the one who wins the last race wins the championship that would be cool. | ||
| Davegess |
Just seen on superbikeplanet. The race stewart has apologised to Hayden for missing the rossi yellow flag pass. Between this and the rain eliminated qualifing sesion in the last race these guys are making the AMA look good! | ||
| Blake |
D'OH! Who is this "Stewart" fellow anyway?  |
