| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
That's the new race bike. Same bodywork, mostly. | ||
| Madduck |
Aaron, Do you need donations to keep my name on the new bike?? Paul | ||
| Court |
Paul: Absopositively...although former names will be retained. There are, instantly, two ways to participate. One, is to snatch up some of the way cool stuff from the past couple years. One of our Badwebbers will be steppin' up to help us convert the remaining inventory to cash. For me, I'm gonna snag some of it for gifts and goodies. Second, we will be doing a set of goodies for this year in the near future. You can standby to buy and I'll try to get that stone pushed down the mountain. This is going to be another GREAT year. Court | ||
| Aaron |
Paul: no, not necessary ... names are staying on as a thank-you for past support. Besides, that whole bodywork set is a piece of Buell history, I'm not about to alter it. For anyone who's wondering, the team isn't funding any part of this bike or the bikes being prepped by Paul, Rocky, or Jim. Every part on this bike belongs to me, unlike the RR1000 effort where I only owned a portion of the bike being raced. I hear the the team is in good shape on money, it took in quite a bit from selling off old go-fast parts and will likely make a little more when we sell the XR engine donor bike (Brian, you done with those heads yet?). I don't expect any problem covering a good chunk of operating expenses for each racer. | ||
| Aaron |
Oops, looks like our posts crossed in cyberspace. Was I supposed to solicit more money? Paul has done SO MUCH for the team it's hard to fathom accepting any more.  | ||
| Madduck |
Jssport, How far from the Petty enterprises home base is Maxton?? If we go well at Bonneville we might be interested in prepping the engine one more time for you. We have a truck hauling nascar machining parts going down pretty regular so transport should not be a problem. We are not doing anything but prepping for Sept. this year but records are fun to try for and it would be good to see you all. | ||
| Josh |
Ah yes, Engineering vs Marketing.  Did I mention I plan on finally being on the salt this year? Josh | ||
| Roc |
Aaron - do speeding tickets qualify as "operating expenses"? I mean we do need to do some bike testing, right?  | ||
| Eeeeek |
What's the record for a car pulling a trailer?  After drivign by Wendover last month, there is no reason I can't blast out there in a day. If nothing else, I'll put the X1 into the 130 club. I don't think I'll have the time for anything more ambitious, but what the hell. The experience should be worth it. Vik | ||
| Aaron |
Rocky: I wish! Vik: HELL YES!!! Be there! Last year, my M2 did some loaner duty, putting a couple folks into the 130 club. It did that easily, with about 82rwhp. You should have no problem. This year I'm hoping the M2 will be 150 club capable, we'll see. | ||
| Pilk |
Aaron, will a stock X-1 do 130 at that elevation? I'm sure you've answered this before but I cant find it. Thanks Pilk p.s. mine has race stripes, that makes it faster,right? | ||
| Aaron |
Yes, assuming it's in a reasonable state of tune. I'm sure the stripes add 5mph right there! You gonna be there? This could really be good, I'd love to see the place swarming with Buells. Last year we accounted for 50% of the successful 130 club entrants, we could be higher this year! | ||
| Jssport |
Madduck, I'm not sure where Petty's is located, I travel from OH to NC to attend Maxton. Maxton / Laurenburg is about 70 mi east of Charlotte NC off of I-74.
If I read your message correctly, there will be runs at Maxton Sept 28-29, and Oct 26-27. The Oct meet is a major event, hopefully it's where Crim's bike "Roadkill" will clinch the # 1 plate for the ECTA (if all goes according to plans!). We would love to have you or any others on this list join us, you'll have a great time, meet some great people, and go really fast. If you are unable to attend we could work soemthing out as to get ther bike their and set some records with it. Jim S | ||
| Pilk |
Thanks Aaron, I'm workin on being there. Pilk  | ||
| Aaron |
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| Jssport |
So Aaron, Is the 100 in motor being placed in the RR or are you moving the RR's body work over to a EVO spec frame? Jim S | ||
| Aaron |
Jim: I'm using an S2 chassis, RR body, and Cycle-Rama/S&S engine. In other words, the best of everything The engine should come together in a couple weeks. We're making some pretty significant changes. The chassis is here, forks lowered, clip-ons & controls in place, the body is all mounted, progressive controller is mounted, nitrous bottles are mounted (in the tail) with crash protection per the rules, now I'm working on the wiring. There's a LOT of wiring that goes with this nitrous setup. 7 relays. By the time the motor is here and done, the chassis should be pretty much ready. One more big fabrication job, that'll be the exhaust & new fairing lowers to accomodate it. I hope to have the bike running mid next month. That gives me some development and "oh sh*t" time. | ||
| Mikej |
Let me guess, 225mph?????  | ||
| Aaron |
Hmm, I remember you guessed high before the first 1000cc attempt, too! 200.000 would make me happy. Ecstatic, in fact. Nobody's done it in the 1650cc class (or lower) with a H-D powered bike. Lots have tried. This is a really difficult thing to do. But hey, if I stay home and don't try, I KNOW we won't make it! | ||
| Blake |
The 1000cc made near 190 mph. Dude, you've got 200 in the bank. I know a tough little Cajun down these parts who knows the same thing.  What really cracked me up was the article in the July Cycle World, page 84 where a deluded and Jesse James tells the author, John Burns, that he plans on taking his 124 CI raked chopper with 160 HP to Bonneville in search of a land speed record. He later claims that it will do over 200 mph. I believe the HP number. Good luck with getting anywhere near 200 mph. | ||
| Blake |
Maybe someone should tell him that at 200 mph every sq foot of your exposed forward facing hide will be subject to over 100 LB of stagnation air pressure. | ||
| Mikej |
Gotta have hopes and dreams. Guess high, and grab the records on the way by. Happened before. The deuce club is there, gotta be, S2 ==> S200+.  | ||
| Aaron |
Blake, it's a LONG way from 180 to 200, that's what you're missing. I know it doesn't sound like a long way, but remember, hp required goes up with the cube of the speed increase. It takes 37% more hp to go 200 than to go 180. Now sure, we have a 65% bigger motor, so this ought to be doable. But keep in mind that the XR1000 was an overachiever on a hp per ci basis. Making the same hp per ci on a single carb 1650cc motor is tough, I really don't expect it. Which is why I signed up Cycle-Rama, if anyone can get it there, it's them. And, we were really pushing the 1000, in terms of breaking it. We couldn't have done many more passes at that power level without it coming apart. There's a reason we waited until the last day to really put the power to it, I didn't want the event to end early for us. The only reason we got away with what we did is because them boys up in Iowa know their sh*t. But when you go to 1650cc, you're talking about an engine that makes it's power with less rpm and MUCH more torque, we'll probably need something like 60% more torque than the 1000 had. And it's the torque I'm worried about, that's what twists shafts. A lot of the stuff in this motor is the same size as what we had in the 1000 but we're going to put a whole bunch more torque to it. I'm very concerned about the whole thing holding together long enough to do this. We're taking some special preparation steps to give us the best chance. Nobody has ever been able to do this. It's not easy at all. But then again, nobody's ever tried it with a 1650cc Cycle-Rama motor and an RR body and Richard Nallin at the controls. That's really what it takes to have a shot, in my view, the best of everything, motor, bodywork, pilot. And a little luck. 200mph on 160hp? In his dreams. The RR can't do 200 on 160hp, a chopper sure as hell ain't going to do it. | ||
| Davegess |
Aaron, as usual speaks the truth. 200 mph is tough. Not only the power and air resistance but all sorts of stuff is happening to the airflow and the interaction between the tires and the salt. It will be cool to go for it and I am hoping that Aaron and Richard and the rest of the team pulls it off. dave | ||
| Buelliedan |
If Aaron can pull off a 200 mph pass on a Buell it is going to piss off a whole bunch of Hyabusa guys!! | ||
| Aaron |
Well, if we can pull this off, it ain't gonna be Aaron doing it! Actually, it takes a whole bunch of people, each doing a good job. But I've been over that before. I'm confident the right people are involved. But really, it's not a fair comparison to look at this versus a Hayabusa. A 'busa can do 200 with only minor mods to a street bike. Well, maybe a little more than minor to do it at Bonneville, where you're down on power and dealing with a slippery surface. But still, they don't have to go to anywhere near the extremes we do, to get there. The 'busa is a hell of a motorcycle. My whole point was that this is really a whole lot harder to do than it might appear to the outside observer. Honestly, I wouldn't even be attempting it if not for the fact that Team Elves is adding more racers this year. That gives me the lattitude to attempt more difficult things, because the entire success or failure of the team isn't riding on what I'm doing. Hey, speaking of additional Team Elves racers, I had an interesting phone conversation with someone yesterday, I *think* we may have a Blast-sidecar effort joining Team Elves! I think it'd really be great to see the Team Elves compound fielding 5 or 6 bikes attempting records and maybe twice that many going for 130 or 150 club status. It'll make us the biggest team presence on the salt, that's for sure! | ||
| Court |
By the way. . . on the subject of TEAM ELVES. . . there's lots to be done and those of you who come to this BadWeb, know it or not, are THE TEAM. Now, you having been so notified of your awesome responsibility, do we have any TEAM ELVES in the Salt Lake City area? George. . you still out there? We are needing someone to receive shipments of logistical support gear. Also....if you have even the most passing interest in Buell and are going to be anywhere near Salt Lake City, UT this September do NOT miss the TEAM ELVES effort at the Bonneville Salt Flats. There's going to be much going on this year and the excitement will be at record levels. Worker or watcher.....if you are here, you are ONE and we'd love to have you. Court | ||
| Blake |
Aaron, I thought that on the bottle the RR made close to 190 mph before it ran out of nitrous? That'd only be 17%. Here's some bothersome questions for you... 1. Can you streamline the wheels (close out the spokes/hub flush with the rims)? 2. Can you use slick tires? 3. Can you add weight to help improve rear wheel traction? 4. Would a custom aerodynamic suit with the helmet streamlining hump in back, like those that you see superbike racers wearing, help to reduce drag? 5. Do you run a conventional chain or an o-ring type? I've heard that o-ring chains, while vastly more durable, are less efficient. 6. Can you take advantage of any type of ram air intake? 7. Do you run without an air filter? 8. Since you are concerned about the high torque output of the engine and its effect on the drivetrain, can you increase flywheel inertia to help absorb the big twin's pulsing torque delivery? 9. Would it be worth it to proof test some of the components that are most at risk? 10. Can you install and use pertinent sensors with real time telemetry to a laptop? 11. Aside from the ownership issue, your effort is a Team Elves effort right? (I know it is; I just wanted to clarify for others who might have gotten the wrong impression from your Monday, May 13, 2002 - 03:54 pm post.) | ||
| Aaron |
Blake: Our top recorded speed was 184.7, in the first 1/4 of the timed mile. Our best mile average speed though was 182.9, and our record (2-pass average) is 180.8. You're not in the 200 club unless you can average 200mph for the same timed mile of 2 back to back passes and break a record in the process. So 180.8 is the number we have to work from, peak speed on a portion of one pass doesn't mean diddly. With respect to your other items listed, all of them have been considered, some we're doing, some we're not. Believe me, I pay a lot of attention to this stuff, in terms of weighing the benefit of potential modifications against the time/effort/cost it'd take to do it. One of the real keys to success, IMO, is to not over-extend yourself, accurately assess your resources in terms of both time and money and carefully choose how to use them for maximum effectiveness. All too often, I've seen people get too ambitious, and over-extend themselves, resulting in either not making it to races or having a ton of trouble getting it all sorted once they get there. I strive to have my sh*t together when I roll it off the trailer, that's always served me best. At the races is no place to do development. | ||
| Aaron |
Oh, on the Team thing, absolutely, this is being done within Team Elves. Team Elves is no longer funding the construction of the bike, and therefore won't have any ownership of it as they did with the RR1000. The team is being transitioned into a support organization for racers who want to campaign a Buell at this event, providing services and operating expenses. There are a number of good reasons for that change, it makes a lot of sense to me. Like I said, one of the biggest reasons in my mind is that it gives me the freedom to tackle something more challenging. But there are other good reasons as well, like the fact that we potentially bag more records for Buells and the rate of decline in the team's fund-raising ability just wouldn't support building a new bike anyway. Raising money for the first year was relatively easy, but as an ongoing venture it's quite a bit tougher. |
