| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
Blake, there might be a rule in their category that the rider's feet have to remain on the pegs. Remember the pics of the guy in the swimming suit riding with his belly on the seat and his legs/feet stretched out to the rear? | ||
| S2pengy |
Who all is going to have to fly to reach Bonnieville???? | ||
| Court |
Well....just a hunch...but I am guessing that the Australians, Hollish..and "My Favorite Brit" are pretty much either destined to fly or we'd better get Pammy and Brian to work making big power and start building one WUPASS ramp! | ||
| Blastin |
Rocketman could live up to his name. I can just picture Europe's most bad ass S1 flying through the air, with Rocket hanging on with the biggest s***-eating grin you could ever imagine. Now that's entertainment!!   | ||
| Madduck |
Roc and Blake, I am talking primarily for my configuration in P-PP, I remember Court doing some high speed work on an S2 on a highway out west and he said he was faster with lowers. Court could maybe refresh our memories if the statute of limitations has expired. I believe that lowers in P-PP could easily add a couple of miles per hour as the passenger pegs have to be removed and the rider has to keep his feet on the controls during the runs. Smoothing airflow is critical when you push past 140 and the lowers should help. I would like to be able to run either way and they are easy to take on and off. I would appreciate Courts opinion as someone who has run at speed with them. Paul | ||
| Henrik |
Todd: I'll be flying as well - the first year I had fleeting thoughts of riding, but the 2000 miles of flat land between Gotham and Bonneville snapped me back out of it. Henrik | ||
| Roc |
Court - Thanks, I'm not sure if I need the lowers yet. Do you think they make the S2's faster? | ||
| Court |
I have no opinion based on anything but CBB. (Court's Big Butt). I say you come to Bonneville and we find out.  Court | ||
| Blacksix |
  While talking to my boss in Lafayette today, the subject of Bonneville came up. When I brought up the Elves effort of the last few years he got excited as he recognized the team name. "If you never go...you'll regret it. Put someone else in charge for a week." To make a long story shorter: I have no idea of what to bring or where to stay...but I have consent to go. I'm planning on being there. Brad | ||
| Henrik |
Brad - great news We're working out the hotel details right now, and will post all info, including phone and booking #'s on the Team Elves site as soon as things are confirmed. We'll likely stay at the same place as last year. We already have a short list of what to bring, and will be expanding that as we get closer. Henrik | ||
| Rattler |
Aaron, yes that's the article you posted the pic of. I tried loading one I had but it way exceeded the capacity of Blake's servers. Paul, best of luck with your 1350 P/PP project...make sure you have photo's of a stock bike first, to prove you are actually in stock external appearance. Whatever changes you make, get approval. I see you have already done some of this beforehand, especially the carb. Figure out what the cd or co-effecient of drag of your ride is with a rider in race position on it. Tight leathers to man! I know from our time on the salt last Sept/Oct that Aaron wishes nothing more than to see Guzzi lose that P/PP record. They are really coming on strong this year, the bar has been upped & their first showing at Maxton shows they are out to lay waste again to the HD records. Ain't this fun...heavy competition. Speaking of projects Aaron, I got one dumped on me this past weekend. Dale A. | ||
| Madduck |
Rattler, When you say get approval for changes, what are you talking about exactly. Who do we call and how do we discuss "gray area" issues? Aaron has been a great help, along with the rest of this commmunity. The rule book leaves the impression that a lot is allowed but your practical experience with the process would be a lot of help, if you have the time. Paul Team Manager Team Excelleration | ||
| Blake |
 Uh, I don't think so. | ||
| Rattler |
Paul asks: **When you say get approval for changes, what are you talking about exactly. Who do we call and how do we discuss "gray area" issues? ** Paul for resolving any issues or gray area's pertaining to what is thought of as stock appearance, you can contact the USFRA Tech inspectors at usfra@saltflats.com. Me saying "approval of changes" wasn't the best wording...I should have said: "For resolving any conflict issues or gray area's". You can be put into contact with an inspector thru this email addy. This is presuming you are running at their sanctioned LSR event versus the SCTA/BNI, who sanctions the August Speedweek & The October World Finals. USFRA does use the SCTA rules, & sometimes a SCTA inspector will also be doing tech duty at the USFRA event, although not many cross over from what I have seen. A retired navy Admiral does most of the bikes at the USFRA...Aaron probably remembers his name...I forget, though I can look it up on my documents. Another good sight for all LSR type racing is at www.landracing.com for links to all the LSR racing sights. It's down for construction right now, but they say about 2 weeks to be back up. Joe Amato from New York hosts this web sight. What I was exactly meaning & you may or may not have issues such as this, is where a Bike has Dealer options available...ie, one type of carb available as a Dealer option versus what the bike came with from the factory as an example. 2 years ago we had this type of issue with an XR-1000 in Production class due to it having a factory 38mm carb? & an available 41mm set of carbs. I'm not positive on these carb sizes...it's been awhile. We were able to show were both where listed in the Parts & Accesory books, & some Dealers add these items on, of their own will & sell the ride new, in this condition. SCTA wouldn't buy it though, & insisted on the factory provided carb only. This is just one instance of a gray area & in Production, they really zing in on the carb(s). I suppose we could use the available Screaming Eagle components available today for Sportster & Buell engines as an example. Although, now, these are listed mainly as off road use & couldn't even be considered, some Dealers on older EVO engines would sell bikes new with some of these items installed...albeit it would be rare now-a-days. A person theoretically could have bought an Evolutioned engined bike back in the late 80's, early 90,s with a component that isn't a factory item right off of a Dealers floor. The XR's were a good example of this, although we were in the Ironhead Era then. You will need to bring a Parts Manual to prove in some cases, the parts you are using are listed as such by part number in the manual...this is one way of documenting & proving your case. If you have a gray area issue, an Inspector may tell you, bring the part & documentation & we will decide with other inspectors together at your initial tech in if it qaulifies. Sometimes saying nothing is better to, so be careful. Stock shocks & exhaust opening diameter are the other biggies, though on a Buell the shock may not. They are more visible on A Sporster & I did have to show what a Progressive shock looked like compared to a stocker to prove my point. Have pics of the stock exhaust, especially the exit opening, I'd recommend a ruler held up against it. You may never even have to answer a question about these items, but you sure could, especially if you break the record & your competitors start looking you over in Impound. Last year, the one lone Guzzi rider was in impound with us after the inspectors qualified the bike going over my bike from every angle trying to figure if he could see anything he could protest or not. Another HD Rider even was giving me some hard times, though he came off real freindly about it. Aaron remembers this pissing me off so much. He said one thing & completely did another! Your competitors will be other Buell Teams (Buell Brothers) & the Moto Guzzi Cooked Goose team. I doubt you will see Moto Guzzi in Sept, although they may show up this year. They have been doing the August & October events in the past. Paul, I'm not a Buell guy....at least as of yet, but if I can help with anything concerning Production Class questions you may have, feel free to ping me. My email is on my profile. That's a real cool team name you have! Blake...didn't mean to knock on your servers...I meant the pic I tried to load was to big for your allowed Jpeg size. :-) Dale A. | ||
| Jssport |
Paul, A good rule of thumb is that if they can can point to something and say "That's not stock" you could be in trouble. Certain bikes and cars come with factory options such as brakes and wheels or a HO (high-output) package. I am not aware of anything like it for the Buells, if the bike didn't come with lowers I don't think you can add them. "how do we discuss "gray area" issues?" | ||
| Madduck |
Jim and Rattler, Thanks for the help and advice. The issues we are working on now are the carb and exhaust. The Buell exhaust has a turn out after it exits the cannister. This turn out points down, which violates a rule in the book in that the exhaust cannot point at the salt. Correcting this to give the most power is the issue, what we can change to meet one rule and still be in compliance with other rules are the issues of concern. We may want to run the Quicksilver carb off the california models but we have little info on what that carb was. Any ca buellers have a feel for what this is. Official we talked with says if it came on that model it can be used. We have parts and service manual showing lowers with parts numbers and this other carb. Paul | ||
| Aaron |
But lowers never came on S2's, only S2T's. They may make you run the bags if you want to run the lowers. | ||
| Court |
Run the thin ones...they are within the profile of the lowers. | ||
| Roc |
Paul - I have the thin bags and bracket if you need to borrow them. | ||
| Peter |
I have the idea that Fireman Jim still runs the Quicksilver on his bike. I could be wrong though. PPiA | ||
| Madduck |
Thanks to all for the advice. We have been talking with a SCTA official who has a rather liberal view of what "model" means. I got the general feeling, nothing in writing, that if the part was listed in the parts book and a Buell was shipped with that part on it we could use it. I guess it all depends on exactly what is meant by the word "model". It would be interesting to get a perspective from the USFRA and SCTA and compare them. Either way it will be up to tech inspection at the meet, it would be nice to try a set and see if its worth generating an argument over. I just realized i sound remarkably like bill clinton. Sorry  | ||
| Aaron |
Paul: FWIW, Buell treats them as a separate model wrt the VIN. Maybe that won't matter though since they're awfully similar. | ||
| Madduck |
Aaron, I am eagerly awaiting the 2002 rule book. The muffler issue is of more concern to us right now. the spec is to make it look stock but we cannot have it point at the ground. We would interpret that to mean that as long as our output diameter is stock we can optimize our shape for peak HP in the process of making it not point down. That little curvey thing negates some performance gains and does weird things to exhaust pulses. We want to be at about 140 hp but carb and muffler have us @ 124 now. Paul | ||
| Mikej |
Sounds like one of them "loopholes" to take full advantage of. | ||
| Axtell |
Madduck, I believe I have a quiksliver carb--ping me if you need it, Ron | ||
| Rattler |
> Paul, I'm certain all they would want is the exit size the same, then pointed straight back..or at least not downward as the rule says.......what you do up inside of it for shaping is up to you. I'm thinking in my mind, what they would want to see is the turndown taken out & a striaght piece attached of the same diameter as original???? Dale A. | ||
| Jssport |
Paul, Get 2 stock mufflers to modify, put a straight pipe (stock dimensions) on one, rotate the pipe on the 2nd so it doesn't point down then hide it in a box. Hopefully you'll never need it but Utah is a long trip for a DQ. | ||
| Madduck |
We are going with a cut off on the turn down, deciding configuration. The pipe cannot be simply rotated as there is a dimple, peened into it at a specific location so as to clear a drain plug on the motor. Officials seem reasonable on these sort of issues as long as you can show the rules in question and offer alternative solutions. The officials we've talked with have been uniformly helpful and knowledgeable. We have a carb arranged for and we think we have all the california parts located. Hard to find detailed photos of a CA model tho. It will be interesting to see if the carb does as much good as people say it should. | ||
| X1glider |
There wasn't a "no knowledge vault" so I posted here. Got my first copy of Fuell and saw the Elves picture taken back in September. After reading the names underneath I now realize who many of you on this BBS are. Cool that there's such a tight knit bunch in it for the fun as well as the glory. Hell, even Rocketman flew over from what I gathered! Cheers to you!  | ||
| Aaron |
Yes, the team was conceived right here on Badweb! I muttered something about how an RR Buell ought to just smoke that Moto Guzzi that took a record, and next thing you know, we had a race team. Just goes to show you, be careful what you say here. |
