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Griffmeister
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 - 07:26 pm: | 
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WAIT, pulling the starter, while not difficult, is time consuming and involves disturbing a bunch of stuff. Before you do that, just put a voltmeter on the hot lead and see what it says when you try to crank. If there’s no drop then check the signal lead to see if it has full voltage. Then you can be sure that the starter has to come out or not. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 - 08:16 pm: |
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great idea. I'm on it. |
Mark_weiss
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 - 08:33 pm: |
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There should be a notable drop in voltage when the starter is turning, but not much below 10v. If a fully charged batter drops to 9v or less, something is wrong. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 - 10:06 am: |
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There is a lot you can do before removing it from the engine.
Two wires go to the starter (a third if you count grounding it on the case).
One enormous wire goes directly to the + on the battery and is always hot.
The smaller one is contolled by the Rube Golberg switch, relay crap.
Things you could try:
Unplug the smaller wire and connect it to a light and see if it goes on when you push the magic button.
If it does light up, then you know the issue is in the starter housing.
Before you rip it off the bike, you can take the solenoid cover off and see if it cranks if you jam the plunger in with a stick or a pencil. (may get hot!)
If your starter cranks when you mash it in by hand, you could fit one of these silly things to save some effort and money:
https://www.denniskirk.com/v-factor/solenoid-cover -with-starter-button-17758.p2009475.prd/2009475.sk u |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 - 03:46 pm: |
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Honestly, I'm 90% sure the chinese starter I bought is the one with no O-ring. So instead of replacing the clutch for one with an O ring, this may be all the reason I need to buy another starter.
If it shows any signs of failure, it's time to replace it and stop the damn drip too.
As I said when I bought it, if it failed in two years, I could buy another and still be money ahead over the harley starter.
That being said, I have two years out of this one, and didn't want to replace it again, or have all the oil on my garage floor. GRR |
Griffmeister
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 - 06:36 pm: |
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You could push it outside and change it in the driveway. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 04:02 pm: |
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That's funny, but not my point. I can change oil, or change a starter without dripping oil on my floor.
I was saying I didn't want to replace it, but I also didn't want all the oil on my floor from the POS starter leaking oil out of my primary out onto the floor. So it's one or the other. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 - 11:58 am: |
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Well, those Ebay coupons got me again. I do love them (hate spending money)
I ordered an All Balls starter as recommended by others. Not cheap, but less than the Harley part. I saved $40 with the Ebay coupon!
Now I get to pull this badboy apart one more time. Just in time for winter. We had snow this past Saturday and more in the forecast |
Tootal
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 - 04:21 pm: |
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ON my big twin harley I went through 2 Compufire starters and they were both junk. Made in USA junk. Very sad. I picked up an all balls and it spins like it has stock compression! Very good starter. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 - 05:28 pm: |
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Mark what part number did you get for the 08 XT? |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 - 11:51 am: |
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PART # 80-1009 Was the part number listed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Balls-Black-1-4KW-Starter-Upgrade-Harley-1981-2017-Sportster-XL-Nighster-48/131955921686?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D24b4f1e0aec54e8bbb0b1981f4abe99a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173564636415%26itm%3D131955921686&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa996e03e-c723-11e8-b162-74dbd180e38d%7Cparentrq%3A3a9d07e81660ab6483081bc4fff2cb6a%7Ciid%3A1
But honestly, the starter fits like almost every Harley model 2000 on up and every Sportster since 1993.
There are very few differences other than the Kw rating, and the coated finish.
The All Balls is supposed to have the correct O ring to keep oil in the primary and out of the starter. It is also supposed to have a machined face rather than cast face that mates up to the primary. Again it should eliminate leaks when using the proper gasket.
I should see it in a few days. But my riding season is over here. We have had snow coming down recently. But now it's just cold-ass rain.
(Message edited by biffdotorg on October 03, 2018) |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 - 02:14 pm: |
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AlpineStars Dry Star pants and jacket. It's just rain. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2018 - 04:47 pm: |
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I have alpine stars Gore Tex boots and my Buell Rain suit and Gore Tex gloves, that has worked for years. The heated grips work nicely as well.
All that being said, I'm a pussy and 35 degree rain, with a chance of turning to snow at any moment is not my idea of perfect riding weather.
And yes, I did ride it home on the Interstate in a couple inches of slush one time. White knuckles were not my only problem. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2018 - 04:49 pm: |
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BTW, I got the All Balls starter in last week. That thing is a much nicer looking starter from the outside. It just feels more solid.
I'm sure that says nothing, but those chinese starts have all got to be refurbs by the condition of it when they arrive. The spray on dura liner crap has got to be just to hide the used appearance of them. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2019 - 09:40 am: |
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Ok, this is my old rant on the starter replacement. The snow is finally melting, and It's time to get this Uly on the road again.
So I pull the cover off and put the charger on the battery to eliminate one variable. With a full charge, I turn my key and rock the kill switch. Dash lights on, gauges sweep and fuel pump cycles.
I hit the starter button and hear the relay click under the seat. So at this time, I feel the switch on the handlebar is fine.
I get my meter out, to get leads on the starter to be sure voltage is getting there when I hit the starter button. But my meter has taken a crap, even with new batteries. My luck just sucks.
I think it's time to just do the inevitable and yank that starter out and get the All Balls installed.
One thing I did notice when digging for the wires on the starter.. I assumed the starter clutch was leaking oil. It very well may be. But I also noticed the smallest amount of oil coming down the backside of the rear jug. OMG, do I have to rotate that engine and change rocker box gasgets?
If that's the case, I may hold my hands up and trailer it to the dealership. I may have pushed the limits of my skillset. It is the smallest amount and would only notice it as dust/dirt has stuck to the jug. That amount does not bother me, and I may just clean it up to see how bad it truly is.
It's tough to get motivated to do this starter swap, while there is snow on the ground and slush in the streets. I still need to get Snowmobile oil changes done.
Grrr |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 11:03 am: |
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So with graduations, lake time, etc etc, I finally tore my uly apart and got that chinese POS out of there.
I found a horrible oily/sandy mess behind the rear cylinder. It was obviously the chinese starter leaking oil. So swapping the starter out, was necessary either way.
The all balls is in after a full clean up with Gunk Heavy Duty Gel Engine Degreaser. That stuff is amazing. I got most of the sand out, minus what fell into my belt drive. GRR
And what do you know, turn the key, hit the kill switch, gauges cycle and hit the starter button. Relay click, nothing. OMG!
Time for some quality time with a meter and someone that knows how to use it. I need to trace this back to where it drops. As mentioned.
Many years back on my XB12s, it did something like this, and I trailered it to the harley dealer, as I was not confident in my skills. They literally put a new battery in it. I said, WTF, why did it take a charge, spin the gauges and not even have enough oomph to try to spin the starter. They said, sometimes thats the case and it acts like a bad ground.
My big crank battery has a few years on it, so that is possible. I may need to put my Noco jump starter on it to rule that out. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 11:42 am: |
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Noco GB40 was the first thing I bought for my POV after I started driving a wrecker. Next was a good lockout kit. Then I got a battery tester that tells the internal resistance. It tests a lot more than that, but the internal resistance will tell you what battery is really good. The testers are dirt cheap on ebay. If I jump start anyones car I will automatically test the battery, starting, and charging system. Just takes a couple of minutes. Lets me know weather to tell them to get a new battery, or if I think they have a few months left in the ole girl. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2019 - 09:08 am: |
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Well, I could be pissed off right now, but I would only be pissed at myself.
After a search here and reading plenty of threads on tracing bad grounds, I found this little gem. Supposedly (this may be common knowledge here) the lights are fused in series with the starter relay. MOTHER F*&^*&
I go out as soon as I get home, rip the seat off and fuse box top. Find the 15a little bastard and wouldn't you know, she was blown! Good and bad, it blew for a reason. There could still be a chaffed wire up front the blew that fuse. All that said, I swap it out, and the starter spins, spins less, then just taps. Battery is dead.
After sitting for that many months, I was expecting that. But it was a huge leap forward.
I pull the battery and put it on the charger set for small AGM and leave it on overnight. I roll the Uly out in the drive, now fully assembled and do a proper degreasing and rinse. She's ultra pretty now as there was plenty of baked on oil behind the rear jug.
I wake up this morning to 100% on the charger, toss that Big Crank back in and the All Balls starter spins like a Mofo. No hesitation on the compression stroke and she fires up like I rode it yesterday! I am so relieved.
I would have rode it to work. But another factor that kept me from getting to work on this bike was the tires are shot, and the rear is down to the cords. I was milking those tires till the snow flew knowing I would buy new ones in the off season cheap.
They are sitting on the shelf just waiting to go on. So that is my monday project.
Thanks for all your help guys! I will be happy to be parking my truck the rest of the summer!!
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Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2019 - 10:54 am: |
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That fuse thing got me too!
It let go on a ride back from the dinosaur in CT. I put the spare in and it worked fine.
Got me home and nothing bad happened.
Continued to ride to work and a couple of weeks later it popped again.
At the gas station I was at, the closest thing they had was 20A so I bought a box and expected it to pop again some time.
It's been three years. I never figured it out. I still ride with the box of 20A under the seat and it hasn't popped.
So......it's "fixed"?  |
Tootal
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2019 - 11:00 am: |
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The lights are wired with the starter so they go out while you're cranking the engine over so it's getting all the battery can give. Very common set up. It's good to hear you found it and it was a cheap fix. You won't regret the All Balls starter. The one I put on my 95" Harley engine spins it like crazy! Better than stock or any other aftermarket starter. I'm very impressed with it and think it was a good move on your part. Now get busy on those tires!!  |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2019 - 10:34 pm: |
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It's time to ride! |
Smorris
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 10:33 am: |
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thanks for the update. good info to know. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 03:16 pm: |
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So after a week of riding and letting my bike set, it's obvious that the chinese starter was leaking that oil.
There isn't a drop of oil on my freshly cleaned engine. I did see some baked on oil on the front of the forward jug. And it was not coming from the rocker box. After cleaning, nothing else is coming out, but I will keep an eye on it.
Damn, I forget how much I love commuting to work daily on my bike.
I do need to adjust my chain tension though. I was having a tough time finding neutral. Since you gotta adjust the clutch cable and chain to open the primary, I couldn't remember which effects it more. But it's probably a combination of both. I think I will start with the chain, then tighten up the clutch cable. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 08:13 pm: |
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On those instances when neutral is a search. I rev the motor to slowly to 2,000 or so RPMs with a light pressure on the shifter. It seams to just snick into neutral when I do that. |
Biffdotorg
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 11:31 am: |
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I did a quick loosening of the chain prior to my commute this morning, and all is well. Smoother shifts and neutral is easy to find.
As with so many others, I set it too tight when cold, and they start to bind when warmed up. |
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