| Author | Message | ||
     Hugie03flhr |
I pulled the rear wheel for a tire change and I'd figure I'll check the bearings. After finding a lot of oxidation on the axle itself the bearings were smooth but extremely stiff. I had to push really hard to get them to rotate. This is an 09 Uly with 13,000 miles. The bearings have black dust covers so I assume they are original Buell. My question, is it normal to have everything in that hub dry? There was no grease on anything! Is there a reason why no grease is used to coat the axle? Thanks! | ||
| Mark_weiss |
The axle should have been greased. Bearings with a lot of resistance, but smooth, are OK. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Don't forget to reinstall that sneaky little black spacer! | ||
| Ourdee |
They were not greased when new. Some of us use the silver colored anti-seize when putting it back together. I suggest you do to. I paint it on the axle shaft and threads of the axle. Black spacer if it is a three bearing rim. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Unfortunately this is still a 2 bearing rim. Mark, I find it odd that a stiff turning bearing is normal or OK to use? I pulled the trigger and ordered OEM Buell bearings from Lance's new web site at St Pauls HD. I wasn't sure if I wanted to cheap out and buy the cheaper bearings. I saw the YouTube clip of the bearings going bad and that's the last thing I need while riding through the Pocono Mountains in Pa. I just don't understand why these bearings go bad? I've had a few dozen motorcycles over the years and I don't think I've ever done a wheel bearing on a street bike. I had to do my dirtbike once because I was riding it in deep water for a week straight from floods we were experiencing. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Good advice Ourdee, I'll be painting up that axle with anti seize. Thanks! | ||
| Steveford |
The bearings could have stood to be a bit wider for increased load carrying capacity. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Most of the time, a motorcycle's wheel bearings are protected by the seal that is built into the bearing and another seal that install into the rim. In the case of my BMWs, the bearing is open, but the seal that installs into the rim is has four sealing lips and is double thickness. Our Buells were equipped with only the seal that is in the bearing. A thin, double lip, seal. That's a high performance, low-drag, setup, but not the ticket for long term weather and environmental protection. I'd wager that when the bearing is at temperature, there's not nearly so much drag. Coincidentally, if I put my thumb on an inner race and find that it rotates freely, I assume that it has loosened up and is ready for replacement. (Message edited by Mark_weiss on May 03, 2017) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I would NOT pull and replace the bearings "just because". If they are smooth, and just "tight"...ride with them. Your fingers don't put nearly as much torque on them as the full weight of the bike and rider and luggage...heck, mount the wheel on the bike and while its still in the air, give it a spin. Every time you press a machined steel bearing in and out of an aluminum wheel...you put wear on the wheel, effectively making the "hole" a bit bigger every time. Something has to give, and aluminum is a LOT softer than the steel bearing race. Since you are only talking a couple thousandths of tolerances here...don't hog out the center of the wheel "just because". I also don't recommend repacking them, pulling the seals, or otherwise poking your bearings with a stick. Check them as you have done; if they're smooth, put the wheel back in and ride the bike. Don't pressure wash the bearings. I got a good 30k all-weather, all-condition, nice and dirty miles out of my '06s rear wheel (the orange seal bearings were changed under recall/warranty to black seal bearings but that's the only change), before I preemptively switched to a '10 rear wheel. The '10 wheel was my "just because"...before the wheels became unobtanium. I still have a perfectly good '06 wheel on the shelf. If it ain't broke... | ||
| Teeps |
IF, you do replace the bearings. Follow the installation process, in the Buell service manual, to the letter. I would also recommend replacing the center bearing spacer, too. (Message edited by teeps on May 04, 2017) | ||
| Etennuly |
I know some people don't like greasing them, but as the son of a machinist maintenance man and a life long body man and mechanic I like lubrication in moving metal parts. I have found one of the problems with these bearings is condensation water collection in the hub center allows enough water to puddle against the left inner bearing seal. Why the left you say?? Well the bike will spend over 90 percent of it's life leaned on the side stand. The whole time, if water has indeed built up inside the center hub as mine and some others had seen, will soak against that tiny little inner seal causing corrosion at it's edge, eventually getting into the bearing. This was the exact cause of my bearing failure. I caught it before it came apart and could see the rusted bearings with rusty brown grease. These bearings come with a very minimal amount of grease so that it does not push out with heat that comes from operating, causing that nasty little spooge that causes dirt collection on the axle ends.The cause of this failure being found is broken and known to cause premature failure in my experience. On two '06 Ulys other than mine, we drilled two tiny holes in the central hub at opposite sides to let any accumulated water out and air to pass to allow it to remain dry through evaporation. Prior to that one of these bikes owners had their left bearing bleed rust and fail like mine did, however they did not desire having any excess grease to be cleaning off. It has been several years now and one bike was sold and as far as I know they did not have failure again. On my Uly I did what I used to do back when I rode and raced three wheelers in enduro events. On the live axle hub of these things I could destroy a set of bearings in a weekend event with mud and water intrusion. If it starts to get in it wins quickly. So I drilled and tapped the center of the hub, screwed in a zerk fitting, removed the inner bearing seals and filled it with marine grease. A couple of pumps with a grease gun before each time out and two years later it still had the same bearings going through the same races monthly. | ||
| Etennuly |
In the case of the bearings turning hard with finger force that is normal as long as they are not rough or notchy. Oddly enough you will find that the front ones turn much easier. As Rat has stated you do not want to replace them too often for wearing and ruining the hub center. That problem can be counter acted with heating the hub and freezing the bearing to reduce friction and ease installation. Heating the hub can also ease removal. This bearing thing is not something to fear, just something to be for-warned and prepared for. It is a good idea to have a spare set on hand incase whom ever supplies them is out on the day you need one.BTDT! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
William, What's the URL for Lance's site at StPaul HD? | ||
| Johndd |
https://sphdonline.com/ | ||
| Desert_bird |
Not to  , but I believe one reason for the high rate of bearing failures is consistent over tightening of the axles - both front and rear. The axle only need be tightened enough so that the aluminum spacer makes CONTACT with inboard side of the bearing and the outboard bearing makes CONTACT with the forks/rear swingarm. Any tightening beyond will tend to crush that aluminum spacer. After a few wheel changes that crushing will shorten the length between the two fork blades/ rear swingarm and force the bearings to operate outside their tolerances. The increased friction eventually burns out the grease and pits the bearing surfaces. Then they are toast. I have never had a wheel bearing issue on either my XB or 1125R. Plenty of wheel changes, power washes, rain, dust, and snow, and overloading my XB on a regular basis... I've even repacked bearings when the grease seemed to run low. I don't race or abuse my bikes, so the stresses are less than they would be in a competitive environment. But they do get plenty of use. I'd wager that in this area, legal counsel and marketing had more to do with Buell's wheel torque specs than engineering and common sense. The suggestion that customers replace aluminum wheel spacers (and eventually, bearings) as part of routine maintenance is ludicrous, and indicative of the legal and marketing approach to consumer products. Tighten the axle just enough just to make sure all hard surfaces make constant contact. Another eighth to a quarter turn more to ensure that there is no wiggle in that niggle (term not yet approved by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers.) Then torque down on the axle pinch bolts to keep the axle firmly in place. The way I understand Buell's wheel design, the logical way to build redundancy into the issue of axle tightness is by double-checking the pinch bolts every now and then, NOT by over-tightening the axles themselves. (Then again, people do tend to forget and prefer to avoid the hassle, so my logic may be based on a faulty assumption. Hence legal and marketing depts. bank on customers being less involved in the maintenance of the machines.) DB | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Water intrusion is the greatest leading cause. Mine went out under a year from the factory. Both sides full of water in there. That was the original orange seals. After that they went to black seals and I had that wheel right up to the point that I replaced it with the 2010 three bearing job. This is why I said not to forget the little black spacer. I thought they went over to that wheel in 2009. Sorry for adding confusion and delay.  | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
I read all your comments. thanks! This seems to be a hit and miss thing. I was going to grease these new bearing myself. I have found many of these companies were trying to save a penny by using a light coat of grease on their parts. The biggest offender seems to be auto parts supply outfits. I've bought tie rod ends that barely had a squirt of wd40 , when they should have a glob of quality grease. | ||
| Ourdee |
I do not change out my rear wheel bearings on an OCD schedule. If I am traveling 200 miles, I throw my spare set of bearings into the tail-bag with my tire plug kit pump and tool roll. Works as well as one of those gremlin bells. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Ok, back on the back wheel. I do have the ORANGE bearings. I saw someone state above that they were on recall. So my question is, fixed under the recall if they go bad or fixed under recall if you bring it in? The next question would be, is the recall still in effect after 8 years? I do have the new bearings but I'll keep them as spares if I can get the stealer to replace them under recall... Thanks! | ||
| Teeps |
Hugie, Recalls, in the USA, are forever... Under a Recall order, Harley-Davidson would have to perform the repair. Regardless of condition, of the part/system subject to the recall. That said; what bearing recall are you referring to? | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Ratbuell posted above. In the last paragraph he mentions the recall...I would NOT pull and replace the bearings "just because". If they are smooth, and just "tight"...ride with them. Your fingers don't put nearly as much torque on them as the full weight of the bike and rider and luggage...heck, mount the wheel on the bike and while its still in the air, give it a spin. Every time you press a machined steel bearing in and out of an aluminum wheel...you put wear on the wheel, effectively making the "hole" a bit bigger every time. Something has to give, and aluminum is a LOT softer than the steel bearing race. Since you are only talking a couple thousandths of tolerances here...don't hog out the center of the wheel "just because". I also don't recommend repacking them, pulling the seals, or otherwise poking your bearings with a stick. Check them as you have done; if they're smooth, put the wheel back in and ride the bike. Don't pressure wash the bearings. I got a good 30k all-weather, all-condition, nice and dirty miles out of my '06s rear wheel (the orange seal bearings were changed under recall/warranty to black seal bearings but that's the only change), before I preemptively switched to a '10 rear wheel. The '10 wheel was my "just because"...before the wheels became unobtanium. I still have a perfectly good '06 wheel on the shelf. If it ain't broke... | ||
| Ourdee |
Manual says check them for roughness or looseness. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I just bought a Uly, pulled the wheels for new times and the rear bearing was the orange seal. Axle showed signs of heat, and grease seemed cooked onto the axle at the bearing on the brake side of the axle. Bearings would not turn at all by hand. I went to a local industrial supply house and picked up some high quality bearings ($50 each) and had the local HD shop put them in for me. They couldn't find their Buell bearing puller, but got them out and the new ones in... so discussion on "tightness" aside, the heat evidence on the axle was enough to make up my mind. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Littlebuggles, what make bearings (FAG,Timken, NIC,?)and part number did you use? I bought the black OEM Buell bearings but I haven't installed them yet. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I'll have to find my receipt, and get back to you tomorrow with that. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Thanks | ||
| Littlebuggles |
SKF brand. Bearing # is 6006-2RSJEM Sealed radial ball bearing, I'm trusting them when they said they are the good stuff. @$49.26 each they better be! (Purchased from Kaman Industrial Technologies) | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you have orange seal bearings the dealer should still install black seal bearings for you. Have them do that and keep your new set as spares if you want. It seems you have a "good" set of originals though, in which case my "if it ain't broke" sense kicks in because of hub wear in the wheel... At the time, I worked at a dealer and I KNEW my tech would get it right. His ride was a nice 12Ss and there was no question the job would be done right. He simply did the swap at a tire change, long enough after the recall was announced that we knew the black bearings were "good". | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
I think I'm gonna have too have the deal do it because these bearings are locked in place. I can't get the spacer to move over so I can grab an edge with a punch and a slide hammer isn't moving anything. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
A slide hammer with a blind puller will remove the bearing but heat the hub to at least 200 F to avoid damage. Removing with a puller is a much better idea than a punch because the bearing comes out straight rather than tilting and damaging the hub's bore. Same heat for installation. |
