| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
What is necessary to replace the lifters. One of my 06' Uly's lifters makes too much racket (not even sure which one). I imagine I'll need to rotate the engine but then what? Anyone tackle this already? I really don't want to do anything more than I have to. Bikes got around 54K miles. I of course have the service manual but sometimes it doesn't give the easiest way to do things. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I did, it didn't help, I'm convinced it is my crank. You have to go pretty far into the motor. You have to pull the rocker boxes and heads, which in turn means you should probably replace the base gaskets (I was tempted not too, but I did it, since I was so far into it). That means pulling the cylinders. You don't have to disturb the pistons or rings though. The pushrod tubes have to come off as well, and they are hard to seal into the head when you put them back together, use a little RTV around the top from inside the head after you assemble them. There is a Melling lifter that is pretty much identical to the better HD lifters if you do a really easy swap over one minor plate in the lifter assembly. I can't remember if I had to pull the cams or not, I already had them out anyway checking for damage (probably not a bad idea if you have come this far anyway). | ||
| Phelan |
Put the bike on a rear stand so the rear wheel is up off the ground, and stabilized upright. Disconnect the throttle cables at both ends, disconnect the clutch from the clutch perch (loosen and shorten the jamnut adjuster if necessary), pull the airbox assembly, disconnect the O2 sensor, head temp sensor, coil, injectors, TPS, and the front p clamp that holds the wiring loom onto the front of the frame under the snorkel. You can push the snorkel down out of your way when you rotate it but usually it's easier to take it off. Pull the muffler, pulley cover, left and right scoops, 3 bolts on the Voltage regulator subframe, the 3 tie bars (one above the pulley, one on the VR subframe, one under the airbox with a ground strap on it). Next, put a jack under the front exhaust mount and jack it up until it just starts pushing the motor up, to take load off the front isolator. Then pull all 3 isolator bolts. At this point everything should be disconnected. I know the manual and many people say to pull the belt but I do not as I pull the spark plugs and use the rear wheel in gear to bump the motor to TDC. I've never had a belt break on an XB and I've always done it this way. Once you oull the plugs, put the bike in 5th gear, use a screwdriver or something to stick in the plug hole, and turn the wheel until you find TDC by feeling the piston head with the screwdriver. Once it stops going up, turn the wheel backwards if it goes too far, but but it at the very top. At this point, pull your front rockerbox assembly, pulling the allen head bolts first (4 on the cover, 2 in the corners), then your 3 7/16" head screws, then slowly unscrewing the 4 1/2" headbolts 1 rotation at a time in a Z pattern so they are lifted evenly. Once the front rockerbox is off, use the wheel and screwdriver method to find the rear cylinder TDC method and repeat. Then you will most likely have to pull the exhaust to get access to the 4 pushrod tube bolts. Use ball head allens as that's the only way you'll access the rearmost bolt. At this point, I've always pulled the heads as well, so I'm not positive that you can change the lifters without pulling the heads. But you may be able to pull the pushrods out, pull the 4 tube screws out, and slide the bottoms out enough to get clearance to pull them down and out, like Sportster tubes. If not, you'll have to pull the heads as well to gain clearance, which will require head gaskets at minimum, with the rockerbox and exhaust gaskets. The base gaskets are metal and can usually be reused without issue. I know I'm a ways away (Fountain, CO), but if you decide you don't want to do it, I can do it for you. Just drop me a PM. | ||
| Steveford |
Anyone tackle this already? Yes, just the other week.  I don't see how you can do it without taking the heads off as the pushrod covers will be wedged in place. FWIW, I used Reepicheep's suggestion on car lifters along with swapping the cups from the stock ones. If you pull the heads you'll want to replace the base gaskets so I would think rings and a gasket kit as well. It just takes a while but then it's got a new lease on life. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The heads have to come off. Even if you pull the cams, the lifters can't be dropped out through the cam case. The cam bearings protrude into the cam case too far. Before you resort to swapping lifters, you could try an old school cure like swapping the oil for ATF, run it for ~30 minutes, then swap back to regular oil. | ||
| Teeps |
Hughlysses Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2016 - Before you resort to swapping lifters, you could try an old school cure like swapping the oil for ATF, run it for ~30 minutes, then swap back to regular oil. I was going to say the same thing, but having never done it, so, it didn't seem right to make the suggestion. My '06 had a transient noisy lifter, that is it would start knocking/clacking about 5 minutes of startup. Continue for another 5 min or so; then be quiet the rest of the ride. I put a few oz of Marvel Mystery oil in the engine oil, at the last oil change, and have not noticed the noise since... | ||
| Etennuly |
On the oily question.....what lube are you running? Been my experience 20-50 is too thin for summer use(per OM and SM even). If you can try straight 60W (per OM and SM). It can amaze you going from 20-50 synthetic oil engine noises, in summer heat, verses straight 60W (again per OM and SM). I had a difficult time finding 60W except for those $13.00 quarts at HD. I have run the last 30,000 on Rotella 10-40 and use about a pint of STP or Lucas additive in summer. I tried Mobil 1 20-50 at about 20,000 miles for about 50 miles mid summer one year. It rattled like a dryer full of marbles. I did not like the noise so I went back to HD stuff (scheduled as in OM and SM) until they got so proud of it an oil change was costing $50!  Sorry I tend to drift there when I see a story like yours. $20.00 is a cheap test. | ||
| Etennuly |
Heck do the test for less than $10. Dump a pint of Lucas or STP in with your current oil. | ||
| Teeps |
Valvoline-VV241-Super-HPO- straight 60WT Got the last batch from amazon for $32.19 shipping included. | ||
| Phelan |
To clarify on my post above, Hugh is correct that the lifters won't come out through the cam cover and have to be pulled from the top of the cases. My comment was about whether or not you can get the pushrod tubes out without pulling the heads, which you can on Sportster models. Of course, if you don't want to pull the heads, you could always oull the pushrods out, pull the tube bolts, and cut them in half to pull them out, then use a collapsible pushrod tube kit for XB and 04-up Sportster. Then you'd have chrome pushrod tubes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's how the Porsche guys do it (cut out the original pushrod tubes, and replace with collapsible ones to reassemble). The factory XB pushrod tube (tunnel?) goes pretty far into the heads at the top (and still isn't easy to get to seal). I don't think there is any way you will get it in there without head removal. When you put it back together, do yourself a favor and put in smear of RTV around the head to pushrod tunnel sealing surface to save you another engine rotation and rocker box removal. Do it after the head is back on so things are done moving around, but before the rocker boxes go on. | ||
| Hughlysses |
When you put it back together, do yourself a favor and put in smear of RTV around the head to pushrod tunnel sealing surface to save you another engine rotation and rocker box removal. If you've looked at Twin Motorcycles' "how to" posts on Face Book, he notes that it's very easy to pinch these o-rings when installing the heads which is what makes them leak. There may be a trick to avoiding this. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yeah, press a RTV in the gap so you never care or know that the oring was pinched.  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Good discussion. Seeing that I truly dread doing what might be necessary, I'll first try the marvel mystery oil and then the straight 60 weight oil will come next. Maybe I should just push it off a cliff. Thanks for all the great suggestions. My brother said he could hear lifter noise on my ULY a couple of years ago and I just keep on putting the fix off. Bike keeps on running, though not as nice as my son's 07 Uly. | ||
| Etennuly |
This is exactly what I am going on about. When my Uly was about six months old I was running the non syn HD 60W in summer. On a 95 degree day I was sitting in the parking lot at HD waiting for a buddy who just had them put in 20-50 syn at his first service interval. My Uly was sitting there idling and vibrating producing heat just as it should when he rode up. His bike sitting beside mine idling rattled and knocked like the marbles in a dryer so loudly that mine could no longer be heard. All of the articles he read said this was better. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I run 15W50 Mobil 1 always. My son's ULY the same and his sounds way better than mine but his has 1/2 the miles also. | ||
| Tootal |
I don't think running synthetic or thinner oils are hurting your engine. The thick heavier oils act like a muffler. They will make them sound better. I ran 60wt. Amsoil for a while. It didn't make much difference in noise because synthetics, although they protect like a 60 wt. they are still thinner than their non-synthetic products. My personal bike has used oil since day one. I've run Castrol GTX and Amsoil 20-50 and it uses both. I recently tried using Ronnoco 15-40 diesel oil and it seems to be using less. I will find out in September on the trip. The noise doesn't bother me too much. It's a Harley engine, they all do that! EG, I think you're on the right track. Try a few cheap fixes before you tear it down. ATF sounds like a good idea to clean it out! It might just be a little dirt in a lifter. There's not much to one but a piece of dirt keeping it from expanding will cause your noise. On another note, if none of the cheap fixes work, before you tear it down can you pull the right side cover and look at the tappet rollers. I have seen them wear through their case hardening and get ate up. That should be easy enough to see.  | ||
| Teeps |
Yikes! I'd say you would probably find evidence on the drain plug magnet long before it reached that point... | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Hugh, How does that ATF instead of oil work? What is it supposed to accomplish? Will that lube enough without hurting the engine? What brand of ATF? | ||
| Tootal |
I've never used ATF in an engine but we did use it in a manual transmission. It does lubricate and was recommended by the builder of the tranny. | ||
| Smorris |
ATF is very high detergent, so mixed with the oil it will clean up the motor. i would not use ATF in an amount over 25%/75% oil. run a couple of good hard rides and drain it out. i used an recommended process of pouring 1 qt. of ATF into the throttle body of BB chevy to rid carbon deposits on valves, slowly poured in and then completly drowned out motor with last few ounces, restart motor and get away pulling hard. worked great. did more than once. ATF is very high detergent | ||
| Hughlysses |
ATF is very high detergent, so mixed with the oil it will clean up the motor. Exactly. I have a friend (despite being an engineer, not the most technically minded guy) who says the dealership changed the oil out in his Mazda Miata when it hit ~150k in an attempt to slow oil consumption. (Apparently they thought the cause of his high oil consumption was "stuck" piston rings.) He allegedly drove it for TWO weeks with straight ATF in the crankcase, brought it back, and they swapped it for regular engine oil. He claimed vastly reduced oil consumption and a quieter engine. I might be willing to go straight ATF to let it idle in the driveway for a few minutes, but I wouldn't ride it that way. 25% ATF and a hard ride sounds good too. | ||
| Tootal |
That makes sense Hugh. The holes under the oil rings on the pistons can clog up and force oil past the compression rings. ATF probably cleaned out these holes and fixed the problem. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'll give that a try at 25% ATF. I've got an oil change coming up so I'll drain off approx .625 of a quart and add that much ATF. Hope I don't completely F it up. After the ride I'll change the oil completely and see what's what. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on September 01, 2016) | ||
| Sagehawk |
Tootal: didn't you say one time that you had a vehicle. That you were running too thick an oil and it was using too much oil as well? Went to the recommended wt and noticed a change or had you gotten rid of said vehicle by then? Something about the oil holes under the oil rings were small and they couldn't vent off the thicker oil during normal operation? My b2500 just cleared 260,000 and it's starting to use over a qt. Per 4000 miles. I may try the atf or some marvel mystery oil and see what results I come up with. | ||
| Motorfish |
Just throwing this out there. Has anyone tried adding Sea Foam in the crankcase? | ||
| Tootal |
Sagehawk, you have a good memory! That was an Isuzu Trooper with the 3.5 V6. I was using 10-40 oil and the factory recommended 5-20. Being old I thought that was too thin but a couple of years later I was reading on a forum how those engines used oil because of the oil return holes in the pistons were too small. The thinner oil was to help with the problem but it did not cure it. That's what made me think of the holes getting carboned up. I did sell it but not for that reason. It was a really nice vehicle but at 14 MPG it was killing me! | ||
| Teeps |
Eg, Not sure if doing the ATF with old oil will have the desired effect. | ||
| Johnshore |
It worked on my wifes car. Horrible clacking noise on a Saturn v6. Pulled of the valve cover and it was getting oil, just not enough I guess. A nephew mechanic also suggested Trans fluid and a very light oil I think I used 0 something. Drove a couple days it was less noisy so I went back to regular oil. After a week it was quiet as new. After a year it got noisy again so I put more Trans fluid in and it got quiet again which is when I traded it in for my new Ford Focus, | ||
| Sagehawk |
My memory is a variable, Tootal! I can't remember bread and milk, but I sure wind up with smokes and yukon jack from specs! I can remember bore and stroke values as well. Anyway, thread on--- I'm running the 60 wt dominator racing oil from amsoil and am running a Scott's lifetime oil filter as well. My bike is in the mix of crank failure vin's and I thought this might be a way to get up in hi mileage bracket without oiling failures. Time will tell. I've never tried atf but have tried the mmo in b2500 truck. Did quiten down for a period of time. Time to try it again. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
If the lifters have been clacking for years, there's no amount of trans fluid or cleaner that's gonna help. The lifter gets so hammered that it can't pump up but it might be worth cleaning up the inside before you pull it apart. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Have you ever checked your oil pressure with a manual gauge? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Hugie, I've never checked the oil pressure. Never had the oil pressure warning light come on either. |
