| Author | Message | ||
     Crempel |
Went for a jaunt to the dragon yesterday with the Hendersonville boys. Even though I was wearing earplugs, on the way to the top I noticed some really bad noises. Took out the earplugs for the ride down and OMG, literally sounds like rocks in a dryer. Mostly on decel. Hard to tell with a helmet on but it seems to be coming from lower front area. No extra vibration, engine seems to be running fine, shifts normal. I thought I didn't notice it most of the way home, but this morning it's there again. Sounds absolutely terrible. HELP! What could this be? | ||
| Steveford |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/155801.jpg Maybe this? | ||
| Crempel |
Should I be able to stick a finger in there (that's what she said) and feel the loose nut? | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it is the stator bell nut torque (as referenced in Steve's link above), you can hear it as something like a "ringing" when the bike is idling in neutral or with the clutch in. Each piston firing is like a hammer hitting a bell buried in your motor. If you lightly load the clutch, not even enough to move but enough to lower the revs, the ringing will go away. At least in the early stages of the crank getting chewed up. This happened to me on my M2. I assume it would apply to an XB. The rocks in a washer is different. Mine started doing it also, fairly quickly over an 800 mile day of riding. It has since stabilized for the next few thousand miles. I have been unable to figure it out, and I have had pretty much everything apart and checked. New lifters, cams checked, oil pump drive gear checked, oil pump checked, heads redone, pushrods inspected, primary inspected, velocity stack inspected, front isolator replaced, you name it. The two things I have not done that may be good news would be to swap for another exhaust (in case my flapper assembly in there is doing it), and actually measure the pushrod length (they look fine visually and are not bent). The last thing that would be bad news would be crank play. When I had the top end and cylinders off, I could feel no discernible vertical play in the connecting rods or crank. The piston skirts had some minor scuffing of the teflon, but nothing that looked like damage, and the cylinder bores were perfect. So I'm stumped too. Everyone that hears it (including me) that knows motors says "that's odd" and then "sounds like top end". That includes guys (Harley, VW) that know air cooled motors. It is for sure not a "bang ball peen hammer on an anvil with every crank rotation" that I have heard before for motors with bad cranks. But who knows. Mine is pretty subtle, and limited to a narrow RPM band. If yours is worse, you should do some of the stuff I did to make sure it's not something else. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And I can't think of a way to check that nut without removing the primary cover. The only way to find the loose nut is to remove the primary cover and see if there is play in the stator bell, or the nut on the crank that holds it on. | ||
| Djohnk |
I can't think of a way to check that nut without removing the primary cover. Pretty easy to do ... only costs a quart of oil, and the gasket is usually re-usable. (Message edited by djohnk on November 28, 2015) | ||
| Gobadgers |
If it is as Steve pointed out, I did have the loose flywheel sprocket nut on the S1. I am not sure I could feel the sprocket nut loose with my fingers, but I could feel play in the sprocket. Had the noise you describe mainly at low RPMs and rode maybe 3 miles after I sensed it to get home. Nut was loose and tightened it to 240 ft lb. However, did not put Loctite on. After riding for several hundred miles and stopping by Two Seasons I received, rightfully so, a severe rebuke for not using Loctite. Opened her up again and the sprocket nut had loosened. Not to the point of play in the sprocket yet, but it was very important that I go back and use Loctite. I think it had loosened to about 170 ft lb as I gradually upped the torque wrench settings to see where the click stopped. Here is what I found the first time opening her up because of the loose sprocket allowing greater play I think in the primary chain.  | ||
| Crempel |
Here's a few more diagnostic clues since this is not a constant jingling. No unusual noise at idle whatsoever, not even when reved. Only while moving and is not engine rpm related. I don't think its trans speed related since when it happens, pulling in the clutch makes no difference. Isolator looks fine. Seems to be present under accel and decel. Could it be something clutch related? I jacked the rear wheel off the ground and put it in gear, first and second, which is where I hear it mostly and revved up and down but nothing. Can't find anything loose. Rode it around the neighborhood with no helmet and definitely from the front end area. No unusual vibration. Brakes on or off makes no difference. It's SO bad and loud when it's happening that I can't believe I can't pinpoint it. More ideas? | ||
| Steveford |
Maybe even a broken primary shoe adjuster? Put a screwdriver handle against your ear and use it as a stethoscope and locate the source of the racket. | ||
| Crempel |
It only does it while moving. I think it might be dangerous. | ||
| Crempel |
If something is wrong with the primary chain it should be very loose correct? | ||
| Crempel |
Should this look this way, resting on the primary cover?  | ||
| Uly_man |
"It only does it while moving. I think it might be dangerous". Trying to "figure a funny noise" over the net is extremely difficult. Take it to a workshop if you think it is that bad otherwise it could cost you more money or worse getting hurt. | ||
| Arry |
The horn knocking on the inside of the fly screen can make an unexpected amount of noise. Also check the muffler straps, seems I've heard of noise being caused by broken straps. Easy things to check. | ||
| Crempel |
Uly man, I was just joking imagining myself running beside the bike with a screwdriver in my ear. I did find that the primary chain is very loose. Probably has at least a good inch of play. I guess I have to take the primary cover off to inspect the shoe? | ||
| Uly_man |
Have you taken out the tranny fluid for your last picture? | ||
| Crempel |
No. | ||
| Crempel |
I have now. It was right to the bottom of the window. The bike is standing vertical in this picture. I think that's where the level is supposed to be isn't it? I have never adjusted the primary chain since I bought the bike new and it now has 38,000 miles on it. Should I just try adjusting the chain first before taking the primary off to inspect the shoe? | ||
| Uly_man |
Do you have a manual for the adjustment. | ||
| Crempel |
Yes. | ||
| Uly_man |
I am no expert but if you are saying that the clutch lever is touching the primary case then I think that might be wrong. Ask one of the other guys.  (Message edited by uly_man on November 28, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
The primary is pretty much all turning regardless of if the bike is moving or not, so your description of "makes noise when moving only" makes it sound like it is something else. Check the rear wheel bearings. While you are doing that, also remove the belt and turn the front sprocket by hand and see if it feels crunchy. If the former, par for the course, replace the wheel bearings and spacer, and don't let anyone touch the bike again without the manual page that shows proper torquing sequence for installing that rear wheel. If the latter.... on the XB platform... weep. Here is hoping for bad wheel bearings. | ||
| Crempel |
What does it mean if the front pulley is crunchy. BTW adjusted the primary chain properly and it made no difference. After riding it around the neighborhood with my helmet off it really sounds like it's coming from the front somewhere. Do Front wheel bearings ever go south? | ||
| Uly_man |
"Do Front wheel bearings ever go south?". Err yes and if they do collapse you will be in a lot of pain. Amusing you survive it of course. You guys scare the hell out of me sometimes? (Message edited by uly_man on November 28, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the front output pulley shaft (on the right side of the bike on an XB, basically the belt drive front sprocket shaft) is crunchy, it is your 5th gear drive assembly. Not an expensive part to rebuild, except that you have to split the cases to do so. So really really hope it's not that. Front bearings can fail. It is much less common then rear bearings, but like Uly man is pointing out, if it happens in the wrong way at the wrong time, it could be a *really* bad day. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Front bearings can fail". 13k on my 06 bike 5k on my 10 bike. So go figure. | ||
| Crempel |
I am aware that front bearings can fail, I should have asked if its a common failure. I'll check those tomorrow. | ||
| Steveford |
I had the front disc side bearing fail. How common that is, I don't know. I'm thinking every 30K replace all of the wheel bearings with SKF bearings as cheap insurance. | ||
| Crempel |
Non disc side was bad. I wonder if the noise could have been caused by the bad bearing causing the wheel to flutter slightly causing the disc to rattle in its mounts? I don't think the bearing alone could cause this noise. Where to get bearings? | ||
| Etennuly |
I think what WE are experiencing is carbon deposits on the upper piston that just barely touch the head as the piston passes TDC under certain conditions. I had a couple of new Vortec engines do this back in the late '90's. Going to take a peek with bore camera first. I am going to try a top engine cleaner. Gotta make sure it will not mess up o2 sensor, or remove sensor for procedure. |
