| Author | Message | ||
     Gobadgers |
Any insight would be helpful: My Uly has an over-steer both to the left and the right, equally it seems. I'm running the Pirelli Scorpion; not new but life left in them. At 34 psi this over-steer is pronounced. However, if the front tire is inflated to 38 to 39 psi, turns smooth right out. The front tire shows a slight bit more wear on the left side. Additionally, there is a very slight amount of cupping on both sides, but not through the center of the tread on the front tire. The rear tire has more cupping only noticeable on the sides and not in the center of the tread. Any thoughts? Suspension not set up right? Just need to replace tires? Has anyone experienced this on the Uly? It is winter here so no opportunity to ride it. However, it is a good time to work on the bike. | ||
| Teeps |
Sounds like you need tires. | ||
| Ratbuell |
And proper tire pressure. And a suspension setup/possible fluid change. Cupping is a sign of incorrect pressure, incorrect fork settings, and/or forks in need of a rebuild. On my '06, with '07 progressive springs, I run 38/40 psi front/rear, riding solo, with the suspension set one weight range heavier than my actual riding weight. The only change I make if I pick up a passenger, or carry full bags, is to crank the rear preload to max. Been working perfectly for about 30k miles. | ||
| Etennuly |
It sounds pretty normal to me. I run the air at 40/40 on my '06 Uly. My tires no longer cup. I run them at 42/42 with full load, two up. A friend had an '08 that cupped the front pretty bad at 36 lbs, jacked his up to 40 lbs and it was much better. My left side of the front tire has always had more wear than the right side. Usually shows up with the tire nearly worn out. I would not run them less than 40 unless I was doing a track day which will cause the pressure to increase with friction heat. | ||
| Gobadgers |
Thanks for the reply's. Very helpful and much appreciated. Sounds like a new set of tires are in order, and also to run at higher psi. Any thoughts on the over-steer? Did not want to make is sound like the cupping is bad, as it is only minimal; but rather provide a little color on the tire if that might contribute to the over-steer. Do you experience over-steer at 34 psi too? Or at all? As said, it seems perfectly balanced at 38-39 psi. But I was quite alarmed by the amount at 34 psi, which is the book setting. Not to distract from the topic, but when I first got the Uly it seemed like it just floated. It would take anything on the road and just smooth it right out. Of course coming from an S1 probably not that hard to do in comparison. But it does not seem to have the float as it first did, so maybe as you are saying Ratbuell, it is time for fluid changes too. Not scientific, however, just a feeling. Bike has 6000 miles on it. Have adjusted suspension, but not really experimented with it. I did read at one point if the bike is high in the rear you can get that over-steer. Thanks again. | ||
| Etennuly |
At 34 psi mine feels like a pig. It wants to corner at low speeds going straight and will fall into a little bit of a lean in a parking lot. It might be OK if you are going to ride corners hard, that can bring the pressures up. I go by the maximum pressure rating on the sidewall of the tire. Set ups are different for everyone. I am 6' 255 in gear. I like the rear shock adjuster backed off to 0 when I am by myself. The front, well you need to read the book get it to where the specs say for your weight, then hit 1/8 th turns at each adjuster in pairs until the feel comes to you. My Uly handles well with the factory Dunlops and it handles equally well with the Scorpion Syncs, but it handles better with the Michelin Pilot Road II. The tire wear mileage is about 40% better on the rear Michelin, the fronts wore about equal to the other two. Around 12,000 miles on a front gets all three brands to the wear bars. On my bike consistently 5,500 on a rear Dunlop, 5,000 on the rear Sync and 9,500 to 10,500 on the rear Michelin. | ||
| Gobadgers |
Vern, thanks for that. Very helpful, and also for the tire advice. With your good luck, I think I shall go ahead and get the Pilot Road II's too. This next year I need to work on setting everything properly and it is good to know that tire pressure should be higher. | ||
| Ratbuell |
These days you're more likely to find Pilot Road III or IV - evolution of the breed. I've run II and III, but haven't had to replace any yet with a IV. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Pilot Road 4 will be my next. Have been more than pleased with the PR2 and 3. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The 4 is supposed to have the same treadwear characteristics of the 3, but they put in a silicone compound so it has the "scrub" feel of a track tire. | ||
| Xbimmer |
The PR2 I have on the rear I thought was almost finished at 8.5K, but I've put another 1K on it last couple weeks and it's still not quite to the bars in the middle. This thing won't die! | ||
| Arcticktm |
Not so used to thinking of the issue as oversteer, but assume you mean it feels like the rear tire is sliding out and it feels like you are suddenly turning to sharp. As you mention, it could be ride height, though not likely unless you suspension is way out of wack. To be sure, check the fork height in the triple clamps. There should be a metal clip on the fork OD that seats into a groove on the bottom of the UPPER clamp. It also acts as a safety device should the clamps become loose. If that clip is not seated (and you can easily see it below the upper clamp), then your front height would be higher than factory, which should cause the opposite feeling you are having. You can always adjust this lower, but that would personally be my last resort. Put good tires are put on bike, and follow other advice on air pressure (the factory numbers are a starting point, and not perfect for everyone, especially with heavier loads). Take your suspension settings ALL back to the owners manual starting point for your riding weight (with gear). Having too low rear preload for your riding weight would allow too much sag, and possible lead to the feeling you describe. Start from these known "control" points and change only 1 thing at a time. Based on your description, I'd start with going back to stock suspension settings, then tire pressure, then adjust suspension starting with paying attention to front and rear preload settings. The Buell owners manual is pretty good at how to adjust suspension. Best one I've seen for a factory manual, actually. good luck! | ||
| Etennuly |
Xbimmer, my experience has been the same as yours. I rode to Daytona one year, about 1500 miles round trip. I left the house with 8,000 miles already on the rear Pilot Road II. It did the trip and the tread wear looked nearly the same when I got back. | ||
| Teeps |
Etenn, I tried 40psi front & rear, on my near end of life Shinko 009s. I couldn't believe the difference in turn in feel, it was nearly as smooth & predictable as a new set of tires! I've always run the Buell recommended psi 36F/38R. I might give the Michelin Pilot Road II a roll. If my Uly got 10k miles out of the rear, I'd be really happy... | ||
| Buewulf |
Gobadgers, I love getting suspension set up right. There's just nothing better. I am offering this advice based on my own experience with the Uly and previous bikes, but I am by no means an expert. Since we are talking about oversteer, I assume we are talking track riding, correct? Or at least street riding that will get you arrested? If this is just relatively fast street riding, it sounds like you found the easy fix. Plenty of sport touring tires run great at that psi on this bike. The only real downside for street riding is that the ride is a little harsher. If we are talking the track or a very elevated clip, then I am sure you want the lower tire pressures for better traction. Therefore, fixing one problem with tire pressure creates another for you. It could be that your springs may be a bit too soft. You'll get some oversteer that way for sure. That is why higher inflation improves the bike's manners as the tire itself compresses less taking some of the linear dive out of the system. I would experiment first by making the "air spring" in the fork a little stiffer first by adding an extra 5 - 10mL of fork oil. Don't know what kind of clip you ride at, but that might be all you need. The right springs would be the best fix though, probably the only fix if we are talking track speeds. Since you can dial it out with tire pressure, I'm thinking it's the springs. But it is easy to dink with the suspension adjustments, so give them a try. I'd start by easing up on the rebound setting. If that doesn't work, put it back to the original setting and tighten up the compression a bit. Good luck. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
How long have you been riding the Ulysses? I've found that the XB12X is more sensitive to rear preload than any other bike I've ridden. | ||
| Gobadgers |
Thank you for the replies, there is a lot of great info here. Helps to put my thoughts together. To Mark’s question, I have been riding this Uly a little over a year, about 6000 miles. Most of the time using the book specified pressure of 34F / 36R psi, but that is where I’ve experienced this over-steer. The over-steer can best be described as having to apply opposite pressure on the handlebar. I.e. in a right turn applying a fair amount of pressure to the right grip to keep the bike from going into a sharper turn. (This is at 34 psi on the front. Raising that pressure to 38 to 39 psi on the front tire and that opposite pressure is gone, or as I tried to describe, the turn smooths out to an almost hands off turn.) Something that would be helpful, if knowing whether any of you have experienced the same at lower front tire pressures? If tire pressure is something that simply needs to be increased, that is great. However, my concern is that by correcting with tire pressure that just is covering up a lot of poor suspension settings. So, Jim, thanks for your thoughts. I’ll curious now to work it out, back to stock and then, starting with suspension setting first and then tire pressure. I have worked through the book, but really need to sit down and digest these settings. And I’ll go ahead and put on new tires as there is not that much wear left in the Scorpion Sync’s I have.. Takes that uncertainty away. As you mentioned, I did look for the clip underneath the upper clamp, but do not see it in plain sight as you mention. I have the shop manual and see it shown there, but only on a drawing of the fork without the upper clamp attached. It must be under the clamp. Took a picture so that you can see this. Also notice the ridges and spacing on the folks above the upper clamp. Does my upper clamp height appear about the same as yours? Not seeing the clip does concern me.  Jeremy, I like to ride at a good clip when everything is setup properly. I have not done any track days, but did check into it at the end of last season and hope for outings this upcoming summer. Really look forward to that. Your thoughts on the springs are helpful. I will have those and the fluid levels checked. The bike has 6000 miles on it, but it was not ridden but a couple of hundred miles till I got it. So very possible that basically sitting was not good for the fluid levels. Looking forward to setting this up right. It is a fun challenge. If all fails, Erik lives down the road, maybe I could take it over there and let him take a look.  The help given here has been much appreciated. | ||
| Buewulf |
Thomas, just to be clear, I expect that the fork oil levels are within spec. I am suggesting that you increase the fluid level 5 - 10 mL above spec. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Based on your photo, your forks are as far up in the clamps as they can go, so the stopping clip is hidden in a groove on the bottom side of the top clamp, as you thought. That is the normal factory setting as far as I know (at least was on my '06). You can always lower the forks a bit in the clamps to move more weight rearward (by raising the front end), back as before that would be one of the last things I did after new tires, going back to stock settings, and adding some fork oil height as has been suggested. I'm sure you'll get there. These bikes have a pretty wide range of adjustments in my opinion, so as long as you are not at some extreme for riding or weight, you can find a good setup with some disciplined experimentation. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
When I rode with Pirelli Syncs, I felt that the bike had very light handling at zero to moderate lean angles and that steering pressure seemed to increase as lean angle became greater. When I switched to Dunlops (which I still use) I felt that steering took a bit more effort at low and moderate lean angles, but that steering pressure required remained fairly neutral at higher lean angles. I have always run the factory recommended pressures and had uneven wear on the Sync front, but worse on the D616 front. I actually replaced the 616 fronts when the ride became noisy and rough, not waiting for minimum tread depth. Right now, I am on my second set of Dunlop Q2s with no unusual wear. |
