| Author | Message | ||
     Nillaice |
after apparently one too many wheelies: I broke another one, and fitted the spare roadside with my toolkit. anybody know of an inexpensive/discounted source? I might want to buy 2 and save on shipping  G0500.1AK_ thanks! | ||
| Nillaice |
what happened to LSHD1.com?!? | ||
| Tempest766 |
It's getting scary out there. Web searches for pretty much any Buell part you may want end up bouncing to ebay listings, even if you think you're clicking on a direct reseller. Leaves those of us who refuse to use ebay pretty much screwed. | ||
| Buewulf |
I read some time ago that the Goodyear Falcon belts are a direct replacement. I don't know if that belt is truly up to the same spec and don't know anyone who has tried one. Maybe some other Uly / XB owners have tried one and could chime in? In any case, I have seen the belts on Amazon for pretty cheap. I believe you want the 135-tooth with a 14mm pitch should you decide to experiment with the belt. I would personally spend the money on an OEM belt, or maybe just use the Falcon as a spare belt until they have been proven. Edit Note - I previously said 139-tooth which is incorrect. (Message edited by Buewulf on December 09, 2014) | ||
| Nillaice |
ive read that falcon belts aren't designed to flex backwards over the idler pulley and consequently will fail around 100 miles ... unless someone has a first hand testimony to the contrary (Message edited by nillaice on December 09, 2014) | ||
| Teeps |
here are links to belt info I gathered when I was trying to be cheap... Enjoy. Then when all else fails call Al @ American Sport Bike. ULysses belt configuration 1-1/8 -14-MM-135T- http://www.directcycleparts.com/transmission-drive -drive-belts-gates-polychain-belts-gates-polychain -rear-drive-belt-14mm-tooth-p-3779.html http://www.directcycleparts.com/transmission-drive -drive-belts-generic-belts-belts-falcon-rear-drive -belts-tooth-p-3743.html http://www.directcycleparts.com/transmission-drive -drive-belts-ssgates-belts-ssgates-high-strength-r ear-drive-belt-14mm-tooth-p-3795.html http://www.goodyearep.com/uploadedFiles/Products/P ower_Transmission/Synchronous_Belts/super_torque_p d.pdf http://www.gates.com/facts/documents/Gf000287.pdf http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=2&c=588 http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/ProductDetails .asp?ProductCode=GATES-DRIVE&CartID= http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/750903.html?1413822100 | ||
| Hughlysses |
ive read that falcon belts aren't designed to flex backwards over the idler pulley and consequently will fail around 100 miles ... unless someone has a first hand testimony to the contrary My son-in-law installed one on his XB12R a few months ago. He mainly does short-distance commuting- ~5 miles one way, 5 days/week. I'd guess he's got at least 500 miles (maybe much more) on his by now with no issues. That said, I'd be a lot more hesitant to run one of these belts on a Uly that I planned on doing any kind of long-distance riding on. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I've been looking into this recently. I have some inquiries in about this, but haven't heard back. However, I went online and found something that makes me think that the Falcon belts are different than the Buell belts. In some Goodyear literature here: http://www.veyance.com/productlisting.aspx?folderi d=778 , it said that Hibrex is the rubber compound in their BlackHawk Pd line of belts, and we know from Buell literature that the Buell belts use Hibrex. But in that same page, it indicated that the Falcon Pd line of belts used “HNBR” rubber compound. I have no idea what the significance of that is. So, caveat emptor on using a Falcon belt. I'd be interested in hearing about success and failure stories on this. | ||
| Dtaylor |
I went through two OEM belts on my Uly, the original D and its replacement F belt. Each lasted approximately 20,000km. At a value of $185,the OEMs cost about $0.00925/km. I tried a Goodyear Falcon late last fall/early this spring. It lasted less than 4000km. At a value of $125, the Falcon cost about $0.03125/km. Per kilometre, the Falcon belt cost 3.38 times as much as OEM. The broken Falcon's exposed fibres were black in colour and had a plasticy feel to them, compared to the OEM's lighter coloured, softer fibres. I've since gone back to OEM belts, bored the idler pulley bracket holes for a bit more slack, and reduced my hooliganism by approximately 75%. I expect these things will yield better returns on my drive belt investments.  Pics are in this thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/739553.html?1400419007 (Message edited by dtaylor on December 09, 2014) | ||
| Turf_moor |
Why don't you get an aftermarket belt tensioner? I'm sure they make a difference. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Aftermarket tensioner = money Larger hole = NO money | ||
| Teeps |
Nillaice, At the end of the day, I ordered the proper belt from Al @ American Sport Bike. | ||
| Cvc |
Well I thought that the falcon would be fine as the reviews by big twin rider boasting 140 hp and 140 lb-ft plus weeks worth of camping gear and a few runs on the drag strip ... Must be ok ... Less than 1200 miles and broke cleanly in half. | ||
| Nillaice |
I dropped off the broken belt at a local industrial supplier. I got some weird looks the whole time and then finally they asked 'why don't you just put on an o-ring chain?' I pled my case and asked them to see if they can find a replacement for me | ||
| Nillaice |
still banking on an OEM, but I want to see what these guys can find | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well I thought that the falcon would be fine as the reviews by big twin rider boasting 140 hp and 140 lb-ft plus weeks worth of camping gear and a few runs on the drag strip ... Must be ok ... Less than 1200 miles and broke cleanly in half. The Falcon belt probably would work as advertised on a tuber or Sportster. The reverse bend required to negotiate the idler roller on an XB is apparently the issue. The OEM belt was specifically engineered to handle that. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Further to Al's post: HNBR is just the industry abbreviation for HYDROGENATED NITRILE BUTADIENE RUBBER. This is a very common synthetic rubber, as it is very good at being resistant to chemicals, oil/gas and other things in the automotive world. Some other common synthetic rubber gets destroyed pretty quickly in petroleum products. Whether "Hibrex" is different is hard to say, as it is just a trademark name for some type of synthetic rubber. Could be the same. Or not. Hibrex name is owned by Veyance Technologies, which (according to Goodyear site) is the manufacturer of Goodyear Engineering Products (like the Falcon belts). I am no belt expert, but I would think the fibers provide the real tensile strength, not the rubber, and the rubber's main job is to protect the fibers, and hold up to the tooth shear (since there don't appear to be any fibers in the actual tooth area?). I also just failed my "D" belt and but on my original '06 belt while I wait for my new OEM belt to arrive. I didn't want to mess with an unknown belt. I would guess (my records are at home) the "D" belt had about 25k miles or so on it. Maybe a bit more. | ||
| Tootal |
I'm with Hugh on this one. Everything I've been taught in the industry says you can't flex a belt backwards or they won't last. When I saw Buell's design I had my doubts and even though the Buell belt is supposedly designed for it I still believe that's why they fail. I've never broke a belt on my Harley's. The one I have now put's out 108 ft/lbs of torque and still no belt problems. I've toyed with the idea to make a tensioner that would fit inside the belt so it doesn't bend backwards. Maybe when I retire!! | ||
| Nillaice |
the fine folks at Motion Industries confirmed for me what I know we've all be coming to a dead ends on/about. Goodyear made this proprietary Kevlar-belt construction for HD. the thing about regular/CF/poly/nylon belts is that they will last at high rpms and cycles, but won't handle shock loads AT ALL. Kevlar doesn't do so well with the high rpm's, but it does TOLERATE shock loads I guess we will all keep running a belt until they aren't cheaper than a chain & sprockets anymore/HD looses the contract with Goodyear | ||
| Spuh |
Hey Nillaice, just found this thread. As it happens I'm trying to sell an AKF belt. I bought it when I bought my Uly, from a well regarded Buell friendly dealer. They gave me an AK when I need an AA for the Uly. I assumed they knew their stuff. So I carried this belt all over the continent for 20000 miles as a spare. I tried to change the belt and found out my dilemma. Thanks to AL Lighton for sorting me out and getting me back on the road as soon as possible. Really glad I didn't find this out on the side of the road needing the AK to fit on somehow. Ain't gonna happen. Short story long, are you still in the market for a belt? | ||
| Desertdan |
Chains on most motorcycles get tighter as the suspension bottoms out, do the belts on these bikes do the same ? if so then how can the idler pulley not be spring loaded to ease off pressure on the belts, more so with longer travel Ulys ? | ||
| Mark_weiss |
When the Uly's suspension compresses, the belt is lifted from its course around the idler pulley. At full compression, the belt is barely skimming the top of the pulley. As the suspension extends, and the belt/chain would run slack, Buell's belts wrap over the idler pulley which is located to prevent the belt from going slack. Although there have been a lot of opinions posted that the belt becomes too tight I have not seen anyone posting any data from testing the belt tension. It would be interesting to find out if the belt actually substantially change tension with suspension movement. | ||
| Froggy |
The Harley parts system is not perfect, I've seen errors in it, I know it used too (still might) show the 2009 Uly needing a Firebolt belt. There was also a time when I bought a Blast belt, the part number on the box was right, but when I opened it up it was for a Sportster and wouldn't fit. That said, the .1AK is the Uly belt, and the .1AA is the Firebolt belt. | ||
| Desertdan |
thanks Mark_Weiss , I still have concerns about the belt getting to tight when Used offroad or htting a dip in the road faster then probably should. I found this , appreciate comments. Free Spirits Buell XB Belt Tensioner The stock Buell belt tensioner is designed to keep the belt under constant tension, except it doesn’t! When the suspension is completely unloaded, such as when pulling stoppies or even braking hard, the tension is increased to an alarming degree, which can actually damage belts, wheel bearings and pulley bearings. This spring loaded item is designed to maintain a tension of 10.5kg (depending on model) regardless of swingarm position and will help lengthen belt and bearing life. Utilises stock tensioner wheel. http://www.harleycustom.com/US_Free-Spirits-Buell- XB-Belt-Tensioner_36_507_3536 | ||
| Buewulf |
" the tension is increased to an alarming degree, which can actually damage belts, wheel bearings and pulley bearings. " I have no doubt that the tension increases greatly when fully extended, but I would be surprised if they could back up that claim concerning damage to wheel and pulley bearings. I have actually used my Uly off-road quite a bit, and I don't mean gravel roads. I have had both wheels in the air many times gone through ruts, washouts, etc. and never broken the belt. Am I shortening its life with such antics? Perhaps. But this belt has 17K miles with the kind of abuse on it that most Ulys will never see. At times, I wonder if snapping belts isn't largely luck of the draw. I have seen the Free Spirits tensioner on one bike. If it is off-road you are worried about, I don't think I would want one on my bike unless you could get the parts and patience to rebuild it often. I think exposure to much sand or dirt will kill the tensioner pretty quickly. For street riding, I don't know if it helps, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I just devised an admittedly somewhat subjective test and determined that there is no significant change in belt tension throughout rear wheel travel. My current belt has about 14k miles of use and is thoroughly broken in. With my bike parked on the sidestand, it takes moderate effort to rotate the idler pulley by hand. With the rear tire raised off of the floor, pulley turning effort is not appreciably changed. Considering that there is more belt-to-pulley contact area at full extension I expected that there would be more drag. However, the hand effort might have been a bit lighter than on on the side stand. With the rear suspension compressed via use of a ratcheting strap, the pulley still can be rotated by hand. Initial effort to turn the pulley at full compression seemed a bit higher, but then relaxed. All tests were done with the rear tire held stationary. There may be some tension change, but it is not much. This test is something that any of us could easily try. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I realized that I needed a method to challenge the validity of my test. I needed to increase belt tension and check the effect on pulley turning effort. I just went back to the garage and shifted the gearbox into neutral. I used one finger to press down on the belt in the accessible gap on the upper run between the belt guard and the front sprocket. I found that with very little added tension, I was unable to rotate the pulley. No added tension: pulley turns readily. One finger's worth of tension: pulley is held firmly in place. I am satisfied that the idler works as designed. | ||
| Nillaice |
good work, Mark_weiss! I like your scientific approach to challenge the validity of your test | ||
| Arcticktm |
Mark, Thanks for actually taking the time to try and test a theory (and better yet trying to disprove it!) rather than just putting another opinion out there. I see the arguments about wheel bearings failing due to "overloading" this way as well. The bearings fail for many of us (me included), but I see no evidence on mine it is due to overloading. We sometimes seem to think the engineers that design our machines are clueless. The simplicity of the Buell design should be admired, as it uses old school engineering (or at least glorified trigonometry) to avoid the need for a more complex setup. Perhaps the spring loaded setup would make it easier to install a new, unstretched, belt though. I was able to do it without that, and also without removing the tensioner (though I would not call it easy). I just broke my 1st belt at about 35k miles, and have another OEM belt on the way now. No plans to change tensioner. | ||
| Desertdan |
I'm not thinking the Belt is going to break immediately but if its getting pulled tight and loose, tight and loose over and over that can't be good. Belts don't do well with changes to tension. A belt properly tighten and ALIGNED will last a really long time , start jerking it around You will have problems. I only have owned my Uly for a few months now but I do have a ranch out in the country that has me riding the last half mile to get into it, not gravel but sand and dirt and ditches and 1' deep hoop dee doo's and yes I have had the bike at 50mph across it and have been bucked off the seat pretty good, and plan to do a whole lot more of that :-) , There is no way the belt tension is not changing thru the cycle of the swing arm up and down , I myself will do more research and maybe do nothing or ? |
