| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
http://www.cartrade.com/car-bike-news/ebr-1190ax-a dventure-bike-set-to-scorch-the-streets-in-near-fu ture-126084.html | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Not sure about the picture. Is it just a cobbed together photoshop or the real thing. To expect a passenger to sit up high sportbike style is what makes me think this is not real. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Not even the Buell perimeter brake so it must be someone's photoshop. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Someone's bad photoshop. It's been stated on Badweb by people who should know that the AX will NOT be another 1190 derivative, but an all-new bike which will not be 1190cc. I guess we'll see in another year or two. | ||
| Timberwolf |
Also looks like a single-sided rear swingarm I smell bullshit! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's the original article that started the AX speculation: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/erik-buell-racin g-vp-exclusive-interview-ebr-plans-to-conquer-euro pe-with-lower-prices-88702.html And a follow-up article by the same magazine: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/exclusive-ebr-11 90ax-confirmed-as-sport-adventure-bike-88770.html It seems they did a whole lot of "filling in between the lines" of what the VP of sales said. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Maybe they will make both. An AX and an Ax. | ||
| Griffmeister |
The latest issue of Cycle World has a review of the 2015 SX as well as an interview with Dane Hoechst, EBR Program Manager. His last comment was about the AX and I quote, " The AX will be a completely new motorcycle. It won't be a simple variance of the RX and SX. A lot of work and investment needs to go into that. We've got to continue to grow our dealer network, grow our brand in the field." In other words, don't hold your breath and don't expect an 1190. His answer to when it's coming? "Someday" | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Sounds to me like they are just going to put off the AX, unless other bikes start selling. No point making a 3rd if the first 2 dont sell. | ||
| Hughlysses |
No point making a 3rd if the first 2 dont sell. We've had several discussions here recently about how EBR seems to be doing next-to-no marketing, at least in the US. No magazine ads and certainly no TV ads. Facebook appears to be about it. I guess it shouldn't be surprising if the RX and SX aren't selling well at this point. I just can't figure out what they're up to. Court keeps saying EBR is primarily an engineering company selling motorcycles on the side. It's hard to believe they went to the trouble to engineer 2 world-class bikes and they're not worried that they're languishing in dealer showrooms. If I'd footed the bill to open an EBR dealership I think I'd be pretty pissed about the situation. There was a post earlier this week on an EBR forum by someone who works at the dealership sponsoring the forum that said they'd sold exactly one RX and one SX. They're also an Aprilia dealer and he said the Aprilia's just have many more features at a lower price so the EBR's are a tough sell by comparison. I don't know- maybe EBR's waiting to get these smaller bike(s) finished (see thread in the EBR sub-forum about that) and into their dealer's showrooms before they begin a serious marketing campaign? | ||
| Buewulf |
Those are some interesting comments, Hugh. I had been wondering how the new bikes were selling. Sorry to hear that results may be below par, but it isn't terribly surprising given the high cost of entry and the stiff competition in the price brackets and segments those two bikes compete in - a segment where the intrinsic value of owning a particular brand has to be as high as the performance of the machine itself. I am not sure the problem is marketing. Since the company and bikes are pretty new with an underlying underdog story to go with them, I think EBR is getting plenty of free advertising from motorcycle (and other venues) mags. So I don't think their decision to divert would-be ad dollars to other cash needs is a bad one at this stage of the game. I think there are three issues hurting EBR right now. One is the less-than-stellar racing season: if the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" strategy still holds true today for sport bikes, then the lack of results really hurts sales. The second issue is the market segment. There are some fantastic machines out right now from some very established, prestigious brands at comparable (often favorable) price points. What special qualities does EBR bring to the game to set their machines apart? Third is a lack of underlying products. I guarantee you that Ducati sells way more Monsters, Diavels and Multistradas than Panigales. BMW's S1000RR, arguably the most capable superbike on the planet, can be had for relative chump change because of subsidies it receives from GS sales. Even MV Augusta, the jewel of the motorcycle industry, is reaching out to more modest consumers. Polaris wasted no time at all bringing the much more affordable Scout to the market. Uberbikes are typically halo models that are used to showcase a manufacturers capability and build mystique and credibility around their brand so that they can sell the bikes that bring home the bacon to wider audiences. EBR needs those bacon bikes in the pipeline. Fast. They decided to enter not only the most competitive segment of the market, but one of the smallest and most saturated as well without much of a Plan B in place (or so it seems to me). I understand why EBR is positioned the way it is, but I really think they needed to have their "Monster / Scout" in place ready to put in play right after the halo show. | ||
| Discochris |
I have to believe that the sparse dealer network isn't helping. Last I checked, there wasn't a dealer here in Minnesota, yet there seem to be a lot of Buells around here, so the original Buell name is familiar. Selling a VERY niche bike with a small support network is a hard sell at the prices Erik is asking. People who are going to buy EBR's at this point are going to be buying them as a second or third bike - likely not as a daily rider, and that shrinks the market further. It's a tough nut to crack. | ||
| Buewulf |
"People who are going to buy EBR's at this point are going to be buying them as a second or third bike - likely not as a daily rider" True, and I suspect those buyers so far are mostly the Buell faithful: a small niche within a small niche. I think it is a tough sell for the bling-factor buyers to choose an RX over a Panigale and an even tougher sell for the value-buyers to choose one over a less expensive S1000RR or Aprilia. The SX faces the same issue. Like you said: a tough nut to crack. More so today than ever before probably. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Of course I wish EBR all success, but you can't help but see the challenge when you view the EBR RX or SX next to something like an Aprilia comparable model. A group of us did so this spring at a Suzuki/Aprilia/EBR dealer in N. Georgia. The EBR looks a bit cheap (sorry) next to some gorgeous Aprilia's, and costs a bit more (or close to the same at best). Plastics, machined parts, etc all looked sexier on the Italian bike. You really have to want an EBR to justify buying one. That's why I reluctantly have to give up the idea of waiting for an AX and start thinking about a KTM 1190 or similar. I'd sure like to support the effort, but when it comes down to spending your limited resources, you have to do what makes most sense to you. Tough to break into such an established market (again). | ||
| Buewulf |
"That's why I reluctantly have to give up the idea of waiting for an AX and start thinking about a KTM 1190 or similar. " I don't think anyone can blame you for that. It isn't 100% certain that the AX will ever make it to market. And if it does, will it be a better value proposition than the current segment leaders? Not likely, though I am sure it will be a very good bike nonetheless and the only US-made adventure bike (which is enough for some people). Like you said, you have to do what makes sense to you. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'm in no real hurry to replace the ULY. I'll wait for the AX or possibly the LiveWire and keep the ULY for distance. | ||
| Court |
>>>The EBR looks a bit cheap (sorry) next to some gorgeous Aprilia's, Interesting comment that I've never heard. Care to share any details? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Whoever is casting those wheels is leaving them rough and in some cases there is what looks like slag that's been painted over. I've seen it mostly around the axle area and it certainly doesn't say much for the quality control on those wheels. Everything should look perfect on a 18,000 dollar bike and that is far from it. Personally I'd think more riders would be willing to pay for an AX than a sportbike or hooligan bike. Just because Erik loves racing shouldn't mean that he should have put all his apples in that basket to the detriment of the company, at least not right off the bat. Maybe Erik has been a bit indulgent as Simon Cowell was famous for saying on American Idol. Sportbikes sell but mostly in a much less expensive range. Most riders also figure in the cost of tax and license and insurance. Pretty pricey when you get over 16,000 dollars in a bike. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I've seen the RX in person and like it a lot but I have zero interest spending that kind of money on a sport bike! Now if an AX Sport Touring motorcycle was available with luggage and wind protection priced in that range, I might go for that! As far as EBR dealers are concerned, there is only one dealer in the Chicago area or the entire state of Illinois for that matter! I once read an article stating that about 30% of the U.S. population was in a 250 mile radius of Chicago. With that kind of population there should be more dealers to sell their product! I still feel that EBR is suffering the backlash from Harley Davidson. That company still poses problems for Buell! That's just my opinion though | ||
| Dr_greg |
As a Uly "early adopter" who put 100K miles on two '06s (which I loved dearly), I'll chime in here... After BMC went belly-up I finally went to a Ducati MTS1200S (too fast; I was gonna kill myself even at my advanced age), and have finally settled on a '13 BMW R1200GSW (just right...fast enough but doesn't mind going slow, and routine maintenance is simple). When I owned the Duc I always wondered "...what is Erik gonna do next in the ADV bike area?" since I loved the Uly. EB is a mechanical engineer (like me) and is the most creative guy in the motorcycle industry (IMHO...interestingly my local BMW SM agrees). So...my BMW R1200GSW looks like it's gonna last for a LONG time, but by then maybe EBR will have something available in the "AX" line. I will admit, it's sure nice to own a bike with extensive "aftermarket" support...something Buell never really had. I love being able to fit rectangular top-loading cases, for example... My '06 Uly is STILL the most "fun" bike I've ever owned (and I've ridden since '57) and is much better off-pavement than one would expect. although that may change if I get the KTM 690 Enduro I've got my eye on... Anyway Erik, you've got a few years to work on the AX. I figure I'll ditch the GSW when it's got 200,000 miles, then hopefully you folks will have something. Just please don't give it a chain...and DO please give it a cruise control. Others have said it far better, but figured I'd get my $0.02 in. --Doc | ||
| Buewulf |
"I still feel that EBR is suffering the backlash from Harley Davidson. That company still poses problems for Buell!" That is interesting. How so? | ||
| Arcticktm |
Court, Sure, no opinion is worthwhile if you don't have details. Biggest thing I noticed on the showroom was the plastics. The EBR had rough, or at least sharp edges, and the molded in color (at least I think it was) wasn't nearly as deep or rich looking as the Aprilia's. Items like machined brackets and covers also looked "more expensive" on the Aprilia. Some was simply shiny machined features vs. as cast elements. The plastic brake scoop also looked a little flimsy in appearance. I did not notice the wheels as mentioned by Electra. I don't think these items would have been so noticeable if it weren't parked right next to the Aprilia. Maybe they should have put it next to the Suzuki's, but then again the price point is more Aprilia and less Suzuki. One area I thought EBR fit/finish did look good was the engine itself. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Bye wild, have you ever went to another motorcycle dealer and try to trade a Buell motorcycle in on another brand of motorcycle? I've been told outright they don't want a Buell in trade and that happened twice by a Harley dealer. Most Harley dealers won't even work on a Buell Motorcycle! Buell was the redhead stepchild of Harley Davidson and just how many Harley dealerships carry the new EBR motorcycles now? It't going to be a tought hurdle to get over with Harley on the back ground even though they have absoutly nothing to do with the new motorcycle company! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Cyclonedon, Unless you have data to back up your claim that "most Harley dealers won't even work on Buell Motorcycles" it's probably just your feeling and not necessarily reality. The Harley dealer in Omaha that carried Buells and now carries EBR certainly works on Buells and that is where I order parts without problems. If it ever comes to the point that I can't find a place to procure parts then I'll know that I own a piece of history and a true collector's bike. Ride them into the ground because bikes will probably go electric before you expect it. | ||
| Slowride |
A quick chime in on Cyclonedon's comment... I have owned my fair share of Buell's and turn most of my motorcycles over like I do my socks. I have visited Motorcycle dealers in several states (TX, OK, AR and MO) when I get an itch to change a bike. When I have had one of my Buells and decided I wanted to trade it in for a new bike, most dealers I visited would give me a fair trade in value for it and if I decided I wanted to pursue the deal (I've only done this twice), promptly told me they would not take the Buell in on trade. Of the two times I had this happen to me, one of the dealers contacted the local HD shop and asked if they would buy my Uly. When the HD shop declined, the Honda dealership also declined to take my 06 Uly in on trade. So, with my experiences, I just sell/trade my Buells on the boards when I am ready for a change. The funny thing is... I would still buy an AX in a NY Second! | ||
| Froggy |
Most Harley dealers are not Buell dealers. Most Harley dealers are not Honda dealers either, not many would touch a CBR or Goldwing either. | ||
| Slowride |
Very true Froggy... I had a riding buddy on a Yamaha Star 1700 cruiser that had rear tire go south on him during a ride. The only dealer for 50 miles was Long Horn HD in Texas. We rolled up and asked the SM if they would get us a rear tire on his bike. The quickly said NO! They were more than happy to leave him stranded to ensure they didn't breach their insurance underwriting. | ||
| Court |
I see 3 glaring inaccuracies. | ||
| Court |
Arcticktm: Thank you. Those comments are helpful. Court | ||
| Mtrider |
There are HD dealers that take Buells in on trades, however, many will not take another brand in on trade (and that's what a Buell is these days). There are also dealers that continue to work on Buells. Frankly, if the techs don't know what they're doing-I'll pass on letting them work on mine. It's been mentioned before here on this forum, if you can't work on some things on your Buell, then it's time for a change. You can keep bashing HD if you want. I'd rather go ride- except it's cold & snowy out there! |
