| Author | Message | ||
     Fotoguzzi |
got new PR4's on hand and then I see a new 2010 rim on ebay I can get for $300. now would be the time... but I'm not rich and would have to fork out $100 for bearings and then the new axle too..$450? I'm 150# use bike to commute and pleasure riding with some touring but I usually don't load up heavy.. do I really need the 3 bearing wheel? I want to mount the new tires ASAP my front tire is worn down probably 10k, rear 5k and flat spotted from the commute. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
its cheaper than that at american sportbike and comes with the axle and spacer ...and bearings...and for an extra $20 Al will install the bearings correctly...And...Al is a sponser to this site so...Ebay? and yes...get one. | ||
| Kyle401 |
I haven't regretted the upgrade to the 2010 wheel. Of course having been stranded twice with a split race on the pulley side bearing will do that to you! I bought from Al and had him press the bearings also. (Message edited by Kyle401 on September 29, 2014) | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
but Al's are not black, right? thankyou all for reply's.. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
thats the catch...it comes in platinum...get it and have it powdercoated to match yours for $40 ...you still come in under the alternatve | ||
| Tempest766 |
For what it's worth, I haven't had any problem with my rear wheel bearings on my 08 in over 24k miles. I have removed the weather seal and regreased them once. I always make sure to NOT overtighten the axle too. I think a lot of the failures are a combination of improper axle torque, muck getting into the bearings, and high stress "sport riding". Whether the 2010 wheel is "needed" depends upon your individual level of paranoia. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Some earlier wheels are doomed no matter what you do. But most of the older wheels, if you follow the factory axle instructions exactly, will last just fine. I still have the original wheel, but I ordered spare bearings and spacer from Al, and I keep those with me on long trips beside my spare belt. It will still cost me a day if it lets go, but it won't cost me a trip. I inspect the bearings every time I change a wheel. No problems yet (30k miles on bike, I've never changed the bearings, but I bought it used at 10k and the previous owner might have). It's not stupid to upgrade to the new wheel and have peace of mind. But not doing it isn't instant doom either. | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
thanks Reepicheep.. I think I'll save up for a '10 wheel next spring and just mount the new tires to get thru the season. I just don't have the extra cash now.. | ||
| Jesse_lackman |
The 2010 magnesium tone wheel kit with bearings and axle $290+ shipping. https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/g13091akybq Mine came with the bearings loose. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think I'll save up for a '10 wheel next spring These wheels aren't going to be available forever. You might want to check with Al and see if he's confident they'll still be available then. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
No regrets here. Bought two of them. One for my 06 and the other for my son's 07. Was very tired of maintaining the crappy bearings in the original wheels. Bought both from American Sportbike. No troubles so far with either wheel. | ||
| Etennuly |
At 61,000+ miles I still have the original rear wheel. I filled the hub with grease and installed a zerc fitting. Last time I put in bearings I took out the inside seals so that they can have fresh clean grease as they need it and I can pump more through them as I want. Water will never enter that empty hub again. I have had two bearings fail. The first one on the road twenty miles out from home made it back in a truck, the second I found the rust during an inspection of the bearings. Both failures due to rust. Water in the rim perpetually saturated the left bearing as the bike sets on the side stand most of the time. I don't have a problem with maintaining the original rim with it's not so great two bearing set up. My dad was a machinist's machine builder. He always told me that even the best bearings will fail in a short time without proper lubrication and that a cheap bearing that is lubed properly can last if maintained. What makes no sense to me about these Uly bearings is that grease becomes oil at the friction surface as it heats up. That oil is held in place by the grease itself with it's heavy weight properties. In the wheel bearings that I have removed from Uly's there is so very little grease at all in them. A minimal rust trail easily contaminates that grease with bits of rust grit and soon you are walking. But also there is no reserve grease to save the bearing if it gets hot enough. It is much the same for most vehicles made after the early eighties. They are built with non maintainable, pressed together, sealed non greasable bearing assemblies. I guess because if you can pack them with fresh grease as a regular maintenance program they would last too long. | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
Etennuly, could you please come over and do that to mine? I'll supply any beverages you require.. my wife will cook/no wait.. I'll BBQ instead.. that sounds like a really good solution. | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
Friends, I don't have the bucks now and it's going into winter.. probably have to quit the commute by Uly mid Nov.. so, I just mounted the new PR4's after checking the bearings and plan to finish off the season with 2 bearings.. if my union contract with CBS ever gets resolved I'll buy the '10 wheel and a matching color front rim too with the retro pay. been w/o raise since 2010 | ||
| Etennuly |
I see you live in Mn. Uh.....see you in the spring!  It is simple to do. Next time you change bearings take the inner and outer seals out of them. Drill and tap the hub for a grease fitting, install the fitting. Get a huge bucket of marine grease. Pack the hub as full as you can with a spatula BEFORE installing the bearings. Then install the bearings and spacer. At that point get your favorite grease gun and start pumping, I hope you have the larger type that holds the large cartridges. Pump grease until you get tired. Go do something else for a while. Come back and keep pumping until you see the bearings start to puke out some grease. Wipe off the excess and install the outer seals. Ride for 2,500 to 3,000 miles, or when ever your oil change intervals are. When I change my oil I pump in a couple shots of grease, it will squeeze out of the seals, watch for any signs of rust in what comes out. Then I wipe the excess off and push the seals back in.  | ||
| Ramman4x4 |
Anybody know what type of grease the factory bearings come with? Not all grease is compatible with other types. Mixing two incompatible types can turn the grease into a runny mess or hard granules...either will destroy a bearing in short order. The link below has a nice compatibility chart. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grea se-compatibility | ||
| Etennuly |
There was a large number of studies on these bearings when failures started showing up a year or so in. Should be a lot of good information on the grease types in the archives around here. It gets kind of like an oil thread.  | ||
| Ourdee |
Even if you are light weight, how much weight is on the rear bearings at full throttle in first gear as the tach sweeps past 4500? | ||
| Etennuly |
 Even if you are light weight, how much weight is on the rear bearings at full throttle in first gear as the tach sweeps past 4500? ALL OF IT +! Light weight.....where do you begin your segregation? I start at 255, add gear, three hard bags, fifteen pounds of crap in them, a bike that probably comes in at 500 wet and then you have to figure in the magnification of additional forces like load shifting torque and centrifugal forces that increase the effect of gravity and I occasionally carry passengers that weigh as much as I do. So let's throw a guess at occasional actual maximum weight load at say roughly 1,100 pounds adding the momentary "shift forces".....I'd guess the rear bearing under a hard acceleration first gear wheelie might momentarily feel 1500 to 1600 pounds.....? Engineering factors like this are over my head, but I'd guess that amount.  | ||
| Ourdee |
ALL OF IT +! EXACTLY. | ||
| Buewulf |
"At that point get your favorite grease gun and start pumping" That is a lot of additional unsprung weight. I think Erik Buell would disapprove.  I think that is a sound solution. I've been removing the outer seals to regrease the bearings whenever I have the wheel off. I then smear antiseize on the out seals and along the race/rim contact area to try to prevent any water entering. That probably isn't as buttoned up as your method, but I haven't seen any water contamination or rust over 16K miles of riding which has inculded some "water crossings" (really just big ruts and pits caused by 4x4's). | ||
| Etennuly |
That is a lot of additional unsprung weight. I think Erik Buell would disapprove. I would say that grease is not too heavy. It certainly has less overall effect than the rest of my "extra" load.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
I agree that the bearing failures are due more to being over GVWR, than to anything else. However. I bought (and installed) a '10 wheel when I needed a rear tire at 28k. Reason? Preventative maintenance...and availability. Figured I'd get one while they were still available. Got it from Al, had him do the bearing install. Have my '06 wheel - still functional - as well as a set of '06 bearings, sitting in the parts room "just in case". It comes down to three things: 1. peace of mind 2. parts availability 3. cash flow. If you have (3) available, and (2) is available...what's your personal ratio of (2+3)/1? | ||
| Rbuck53 |
Once the 3 bearing wheel is installed what is the new life expectancy of the 3 bearings? | ||
| Etennuly |
I agree that the bearing failures are due more to being over GVWR, than to anything else. I do not agree with this statement. Both of the bearing failures that I have had on my Uly were DIRECTLY the result of the RUST that infiltrated the grease. I have worked on other Uly's changing tires and found dry or very little grease in their bearings, plenty of room for water and rust grit to get in. My Uly has seen many thousands of miles in the "over a thousand pounds" of load range. A lot of those miles on Interstates at over seventy mph. Though it is true the original two bearing axle may be too light duty, the three bearing arrangement will fail just the same if they are subjected to water and rust intrusion. | ||
| Arcticktm |
I'm with Vern. My first failure was water intrusion for sure. Rust in the bearings. No pressure washer, no bad install method (always use the SM with torque wrench), not even close to GVWR - ever. When my replacement SKF's starting getting notchy, I didn't even bother checking for rust. I just called Al and got the damn 2010 rear wheel. Yes, they added another bearing on the belt side, but the big deal is the added external seals, like dirt bikes, to me. My brake side was always worse, which is also consistent with water intrusion if the bike sits on side stand like most do. I noticed a fair amount of moisture (condensation or actual water intrusion? not sure)inside the spacer during my rear tire change last week. I used even more anti seize on everything this time, as I am not quite up for doing Vern's mod on my 2010 rear wheel just yet. Just rode several days in the rain up to WV and back to NC, and now I am wondering if I should take off the rear wheel again just to see how it looks after 1,000 wet miles. | ||
| Etennuly |
The first time I changed my bearings they went bad while I was riding in town, going light to light. It made a terrible squalling noise. I got off the bike and could feel a lot of play in side to side movement of the rear wheel. Trucked it home. When I pulled the bearings there was about two shot glasses full of water in the hub. The steel of the bearing's races was rusted badly. The rust intruded past the inner seal to the lip of the bearing's track. That is where it got into the grease and the ball bearings. If I had not noticed the noise from the rear wheel to where I had continued to ride letting the bearing eat everything in it's reach, I could understand thinking that the failure was from overload because the water and the rust would not be left as evidence once the rim is torn up and smoking hot. I believe the water intrusion is more a matter of the aluminum conducting moisture from outside to inside the way most any metal will hold moisture, much the same way the transmission will turn its oil into a foamy milkshake if not run enough to burn off the water that transfers through its aluminum housing. | ||
| Buewulf |
"I believe the water intrusion is more a matter of the aluminum conducting moisture from outside to inside" The transmission is surely vented which is how water vapor would get in there in sufficient quantity to condense, not by the case "conducting" water through the aluminum housing, which I don't think is possible unless you have a really bad casting (though I admit I am no metallurgist.) If that were the case then all wheel bearing solutions (and most bearing solutions period) are doomed to fail prematurely due to water contamination I would think. I personally believe water gets into the hub in significant quantities through the seals (and possibly between the races and seats depending on mfg tolerances permitted) due to capillary action. Eventually, you get enough water in there over a long enough period of time to ruin the bearings. That being the case, I also think it is the outer seals of the new setup that will really play a part in the longevity of the new setup by helping to keep water from collecting directly on the bearings surfaces where it can be sucked in. | ||
| Claybobber |
I installed a 10 wheel and new belt this spring on my 06 Uly. The new belt was very tight after installation notice some grease in the rim. I'm thinking maybe the increased loading could have heated up the bearing, decreased the viscosity of the grease? Maybe its a combination of heat build up due to stresses on the bearing, followed by loss of lubrication and ultimately bearing failure from corrosion? Don't know, but I would like to see new belts come out of the factory properly stretched, if for no other reason to make installation easier. That puppy was so tight i thought i could feel drag when coasting. (maybe just my imagination) Last, glad I did the 2010 wheel, new belt and rubber. Feels like a new bike!! But even with the new wheel I think inspection is prudent.... especially after installing a new belt, (i haven't inspected mine yet...maybe this winter). | ||
| Arcticktm |
Clay - don't think there are any belts coming out of our dearly departed Buell factory anymore! I know what you mean from proactively changing my belt and keeping the original as a spare, as many here have done. Beuwulf - I don't understand your comments on transmission venting. How would that have any effect on the rear wheel hub? Am I missing something? Regardless of the way, water was for sure getting in my bearings, and moisture (not enough to pour) was still in my rear axle with the new 2010 rear wheel. I think Vern was referring to condensation. However, aluminum is notorious for having porous castings that actually can pass liquid through. Aluminum oil pan or similar castings often have to have a special "bake and seal" process done to them to ensure they do not leak/seep. |
