| Author | Message | ||
     Nillaice |
My 07 uly has been running rough for quite a while now. It seems like it misses and hiccups. I can feel the bike herk and jerk while cruising at steady throttle. But It won't skip a beat at WOT or even under light load. At idle it lopes and chokes itself out at stoplights. I've cleaned and gapped the plugs, advanced and waay retarded the timing. no change in symptoms. Here's a video of it at idle with the throttle body exposed. http://youtu.be/Pleq-IsVdNA Any body have ideas as to what's the problem causing these symptoms? The book lists 20 potentials for the rough running condition | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
cam position sensor would be my guess. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Start with a TPS reset and idle adjustment....free and easy... | ||
| Tq_freak |
Oh you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2S2NEABecs&list=U UBCCclSbluhA49EDx_QOB9g Its been driving me nuts too so far I have swapped TPS. (with reset) Swapped O2 sensor Drained fuel New plugs swapped in a known good coil swapped in a known good cam pick up swapped ecm's Flushed injectors changed intake manifold seals Rode it yesterday and it still coughs and bucks down low. got a little better as it warmed up. but idles low and like cr@p I have 28K miles on mine and its a 12S not a Uly | ||
| Tq_freak |
and its the same as you were at WFO it pulls like a champ and is happy I even tried short shifting it and letting 4th pull from 2k to red and it will hiccup a little, not every time at 3500-4k. when I had the intake off I noticed some carbon build up on the back of the valves but nothing major. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Time for a compression and leakdown test. Looks like a intake valve might not be seating. Lot of burp back there in that video. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Pull and check your fuel pump for bad wires. | ||
| Teeps |
When did the problem start? Do easy stuff first: Undo anything that you have done, put timing back to stock, replace the plugs (not a fan of cleaning, my experience; cleaning usually causes more problems than it cures) check battery check battery connections and terminations check all the grounds wiggle test ECM connectors and wires wiggle test wire bundle by the steering neck. Do a TPS reset after zeroing the TPS sensor: go here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27 3568&page=2&highlight=tootal see post 16. | ||
| Arry |
I agree with Teeps about not cleaning and reusing plugs (especially if you are having a running problem). Considering the hassle of changing them and the low cost of new ones. Also, getting the plug caps to clip on the top of the plug is sometimes difficult, which might cause a running problem. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
my Uly just started doing this same thing after getting stuck in standstill traffic at 100F and going into skip spark mode.....made some weird noises ....is extremely hard to get running after shutting down for a fuel stop ....just barely made it home from A 1400 mile trip to Nags Head NC....pulled in the driveway from the trip...the oil light came on and it died....and wont even start at all now....new plugs later tonight but for some reason i dont think plugs are going to do it. | ||
| Teeps |
Ray, same recommendations as I suggested above. Did the ECM store any codes? What were the codes? | ||
| Pagprivat |
Wow. Looks like a video from my bike, having the same thing. Pulls like a freight train, steady and smooth as anything at cruising speed 3-4k, but the low RPM range/idle is exactly as the YouTube links above. I've had this pretty much since I got the bike about a year back, and running out of ideas soon. Kind of learning to live with it...? Makes city stop 'n go a bit of PITA though  Here's my list of fixes over the last year or so, elimination method. Some probably more relevant than others, in other words not necessarily linked to the problem. (Not done in below sequential order either). I kept the substituted sensors in my stock of spares, as they were obviously OK as the problem remained after changing, so the $$ setback isn't as bad as it looks: 1. Numerous TPS resets, including hard reset 2. Replaced TPS sensor 3. Replaced O2 sensor 4. Replaced engine temp sensor 5. Replaced intake air sensor 6. Intake seals 7. Plugs, original HD and Iridium 8. Plug wires 9. EBR ECM 10. Different fuel types 11. K&N air filter 12. 2 different maps on the OEM ECM, OEM & a local guru tune 13. TM Square idle mod 14. Adjusted timing 15. Fixed fuel pump wires 16. Checked all grounding points, no paint and with dielectric grease. 17. New fuel injectors No notable difference to the problem... Next on my to-do-list: 1. Twin motorcycles O-ring intake flanges 2. Run separate ground directly from batt to engine 3. Cam sensor 4. Check fuel pressure / change regulator 5. Fuel pump Needless to say I would be VERY interested in hearing what you guys end up with, if you come to the root of this!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The cam sensor doesn't quite fit these symptoms, as when it goes it goes at both high and low RPM. So "running fine at WOT" doesn't fit the failure mode. The cam sensor failure will also generally backfire when it comes back online. If I was chasing an intermittent problem like this (and I was), and I had any interest at all in getting an oscilloscope (and I did), I would get one ($100 or so for a servicable little digital one that works great for this kind of diagnostic work). Without one, you could flounder for days trying to figure out if the cam sensor is a problem. With one, if you have a bike running badly, it's literally a 15 minute excercise to know for a fact if the CPS is good or bad. Same with the IAT and TPS. The O2 sensor would be testable as well, though it might take more thinking as you look at the trace to tell good from bad (just because of the wonky way an 02 sensor works). You could do tests other ways, but they will be harder. I have the DSO Nano V2, but the older (and newer) DSO Nano's would work just a well (or better). $65 to $190 depending if you want an older one channel or the newest 4 channel units. | ||
| Octopusenvy |
This problem! My new EBR ECM corrects for whatever this same issue is in my XP Uly, but I'm keen to solve the mystery. | ||
| Nillaice |
So you are saying that 'your bike was exhibiting the same conditions and the only thing you did was replace the ECM, then the conditions ceased and resumed normal operations?' Well, that would lead me to believe that the ECM was faulty and caused your condition. I've replaced the ECM in mine with one from my 03 xb9, and my condition persists. I'll have to do some more swapping between the bikes to see if the condition is associated with that ECM. I suppose the 'used' ECM I installed could have had the same fault. Does anyone know the difference between the CPS part #'s? Is it a voltage/deutch connector difference? Or are the metal cups actually different? They looked similar to me but I didn't to a bench top/side by side comparison. 2003 CPS- 32400-94A http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/parts.asp?ja ar=2003&model=E67C22D8-A9B2-42BF-BC00-BB2BDDA30FC7 &sid=03DC2C89-EBB5-4F31-B767-0CDDCE2892DC 2004-2007 CPS- 32443-04 http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/parts.asp?ja ar=2007&model=32A89FC8-CDA3-4A09-BE6C-EDAD2975BAA8 &sid=264381CC-2C4D-418F-8600-390855201144 | ||
| Rayycc1 |
Just thinking out loud here....but my uly started running poorly several weeks ago....and was exhibiting the same symptoms....and now I'm rotating the engine to install a new throttle shaft...and possibly have internal motor damage...... I'm thinking the shaft cracked and twisted a little...and that's why it was running poorly...because the actual butterfly position was not where the tps thought it was.....if I was all of you.....I would be carefully inspecting the throttle shaft....particularly where the screws go thru holding the butterfly for cracks......not saying this is the problem....but I really think that's why mine was running funky | ||
| Rayycc1 |
Another thing i want to throw out there after working on my bike all night....I think the way the factory had the breathers run to the airbox could also be a strong factor in why our bikes are running like poo...I got an inspection camera and had a look at my intake tracts and was really put off by the amount of carbon buildup around the valves...The intake valves to be exact. after watching the above vids and seeing my own bike backfire thru the intake like that...I have a strong suspicion that there is enough carbon build up to not let the intake valves fully close...which i believe could make the bike run like it is. As soon as i get my bike back together and running...I'm going to hold the throttle at 2500-3000RPMs and spray some water down the intake to try to decarbon the chambers and try to get rid of that junk. Heres a pic showing what i'm talking about    | ||
| Octopusenvy |
Nillaice, I should be more clear...i swapped out a stock ECM with custom mapping for an EBR ECM with no mapping. The difference is significant in that the ECMs have much better programming, and it seems to me it corrected for whatever issue i had. I also went over my bike with a fine tooth comb, checked intakes, did tps resets, throttle body removed & cleaned out (was a little dirty, not much), followed all wires for breaks, checked battery, checked grounds. I also saw in other posts that 2things were mentioned worth repeating. First, an old battery could be not quite juicing the system enough to cause an volt drop, which can reset or confuse TPS. For me, I have an LED 12v battery monitor that never went off solid green, so not my issue. Second, the position of the ECM is right under your bum, so many have shifted it. For those like me with the updated version that has a hard plastic post to try to keep pressure off of it, we may have been fooled. An ECM can show no signs when plugged into ECMspy or Tunerpro, however it could be the connectors! Also, without the pressure from the rider sitting on top, it may test fine. So relocation is a good idea, even if u have the plastic 'preventer' next to the ECM. Hope this helps and is more clear. | ||
| Nillaice |
I pulled the fuel pump tonight and found this  | ||
| Nillaice |
I rounded the edge of the aluminum carrier, double shrunk wrapped the wires together, and soldered the frayed wires at the spade connectors  | ||
| Nillaice |
Shakedown run was great today. Smooth response and steady idle. I quickly remembered that theres a few things that need attention so back in the garage it goes | ||
| Nillaice |
And Dunbar lists their heat shrink (polyolefin tubing) as flame and oil/solvent resistant, so I'm confident that the insulation won't turn to a goopy-schmoo even sitting at the bottom of the fuel tank. http://www.hstubing.com/LG%20Data%20Sheets/1625GT% 20_Dunbar_%20with%20Header%20October%202013.pdf |
