| Author | Message | ||
     Verdad |
Hey, All - I'm hoping to get some help with what I think is an electrical issue. The last few rides my CEL has been coming on intermittently, then going off (no chance to get a code). Last night on the interstate, it came on again, but I decided to try and push through since I was a only a little ways from home (D'oh!). I noticed that my panel lights and headlight were dimming to an almost brown light, but the engine was fine. A few minutes later, the engine starting missing, and shortly after that, the lights faded to almost nothing, and the engine quit. "Scooted" the bike into a parking lot off an exit, and waited for RSA (thank you, Progressive). My 08 XT has 22,000 miles, and a year-old battery. This morning, it had 11.8v, and I'm charging it now. I don't think that's the issue, because it's been starting up easily enough. Not sure, though. Does this sound like a VR issue, maybe? This event made me happy for all the damn reflective tape and material I have all over my bike.... I appreciate anything y'all can offer. Thanks very much. Russ | ||
| Skifastbadly |
When that exact thing happened to me on my 07 it was my VR. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Whatever you wind up doing, it's a good idea to install a voltage monitor on the bike. It'll give you a warning of an impending failure (letting you know that the battery is not being charged) before you find out the hard way from the lights dimming and eventually the bike dying. | ||
| Verdad |
Ski and Hugh, Thanks very much. Guess I'll be talking to Al very shortly... Also, I have the monitor that you recommended a while ago in my Amazon cart now. Yep, couldn't hurt. Cheers! | ||
| Froggy |
It is either a stator failure or voltage regulator. The stator could have a short and is not providing current to the voltage regulator, or the VR could be failing to do its job and convert power from the stator to charge the battery. If the VR is failing, it can have good days and bad days where it works fine sometimes and not others. If a stator failed, it usually is done for good. You need a multimeter to properly test the stator, if it passes the tests listed in the electrical manual, it is a safe bet the VR is on its last legs. | ||
| Ratbuell |
And as I've said in other threads...my bet here is a multiple failure. if you rode it long enough with an electrical issue for the bike to crap out, I'm betting one failed component (likely the VR) had enough time to take out another component (stator). Keep us posted on your findings. | ||
| Verdad |
Ok, in my garage with both the Shop and Electrical manuals. And I can't find the dang VR diagnostic/ test. Don't suppose someone could sort of give me a page number.... Thanks | ||
| Verdad |
Ok, sorry. Found it. Hopefully its the correct test. Disconnected the VR/Alternator harness. Hooked a MM up to the two pins, 2000 RPM, and got right around 50 VAC. Did the CEL code check, got a 16. Batt over/under volt. In the diagnostic manual, DTC 0562/0563, it says to connect a breakout box, which I don't have. Don't suppose there's another simpler method to check? Or is this pointing toward the VR? And I just fried my MM checking the batt voltage (DCmA instead of DCV). Figures.... Thanks. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I killed my first multimeter by accidentally trying to measure the resistance of the wall socket. I found a picture of one:  My method of meter death... I turned it to DCV, poked the leads into the wall. Meter didn't move... oh! it's on DC. I turned the knob to AC while the wires were still in the socket. See where the pointer goes through to get to ACV? oops. | ||
| Desertjeff |
I have never seen a meter that did not have a small fuse inside the case to protect the meter from connecting it wrong. Pretty sure even my $9.99 Micronta meter had a fuse. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Sounds like a VR to me. Pull your primary inspection cover off and take a whiff. If it smells like death...your stator is going too. If it just smells like oil and gears...you should be OK. | ||
| Etennuly |
A simple test is that a fully charged battery should be at 12.4 to 12.6 volts. While starting the start spike should not drop below 9.6 or so when you initiate cranking. While running the battery terminals should show about 12.8 to 13.4 volts or so. Revving the engine should show little or no change from idle. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I noticed that my panel lights and headlight were dimming to an almost brown light, but the engine was fine. A few minutes later, the engine starting missing, and shortly after that, the lights faded to almost nothing, and the engine quit. " If the battery/charge drops below 11.1v then the engine will cut out as the ECM will not work below that. A fully charged AGM battery should be no less than 12.7v disconnected. Thats from the HD book as well. It may start the bike at a lower voltage but will make it a hard starter. If you test the battery on the bike you will get false numbers, if only a little, because the bike has a small drain while standing. After two weeks without use, even on a 100% battery, this can have a noted effect on starting/cranking. If I was not using the bike I would just disconnect the Neg lead and the bike was fine. You can use a tender but I am unable to do so. Running the bike the charge should be no lower than 13.7v and most of the time 14.5 to 15v. Tested from the ECM. This it to allow for the drain of starting the engine and the power used on a running bike IE Lights and stuff. I have done a lot of work, about a year now, testing the HD AGM battery and this is what I have found. Over time the ability of the battery to take and HOLD a full charge goes down. Even on long runs and leaving it on a tender. That full charge should be no less than 12.7v and it SHOULD hold it for at least 24 hours. If not the battery is self discharging faster than it should. In which case you need to re-condition it on the correct charger/system designed for a AGM battery. 0.2v or 12.5 over 12.7v may seem like nothing but it has a big effect on how well the bike starts. Even my old 06 AGM battery works better than it ever did before. | ||
| Verdad |
Thanks Very Much for everyone's input. Looks like it the VR after all (nothing smelled out of the ordinary, so that was cool). Voltages looked within tolerance also. Went over to American Sport Bike and picked one up - Awesome service as usual. I've attached a photo of the old component because there is some external wear that I'm not sure is a factor. When I went to remove it, there wasn't any real torque to break on the bolts - not loose but not tight either. Something else to check regularly.  Also, since I had the L/S scoop off, I took the time to check out anything else I could see, and found some chaffing on a couple wire harnesses. Replaced the zipties and secured a little more and put another layer of tape over the chaffing. Regarding the VR harness, after looking closer at it, I am concerned how close it comes to the engine. I know that it has heat-resistant wrap, but still. Ignorance was bliss.... Again, thank y'all for your time. Cheers! | ||
| Uly_man |
This VR is in a alloy box with the electronic parts encased in an Epoxy resin. Thats good and normal practice. The box however looks like it is powder coated but I can not be 100% sure. Great to protect from corrosion but may not be so good for heat dissipation since powder coating is a plastic and an insulator. VRs get very hot and need good cooling to work right and a common problem on bikes. Yams and Dukes among others.  The "heat damage" looks like the reason the VR has broken down. It should NEVER look like that and is an internal problem. To "cook" the epoxy like that it must have got mega hot and would have damaged the components. Why is another matter. | ||
| Yamafreak |
A glowing red pipe could do this. I think  | ||
| Verdad |
Yep, I was thinking the same thing regarding excessive heating, and that the cracking/damage didn't look right. And the damn CEL came on again last night, with the same fault (16) showing up, so it's back to square one; at least I have a new VR, as long as I didn't fry it.... During the ride last night, unlike the other night, there was no visible dimming of any lights. The only issue I detected was the bike was running a little rough. That said, on the surface it looks like I went from an under-voltage issue to an over-voltage (based on what I've 'seen' coupled with the Code 16). No idea until I do the voltage checks. I haven't had overheat issues in the past. Including several hot rides through the Mojave and Texas. Would having wrapped my pipes have any bearing on it? If anything I thought it would tend to keep the heat inside the pipes. Thanks. | ||
| Verdad |
Hey, All - Over the weekend, I did the voltage checks Uly_man recommended. After putting the battery on the charger for a full cycle, the checks were good, no issues there. I think Ratbuell may have nailed it though. The first time I did the stator voltage test - prior to replacing the VR - the reading was spot on (50 VAC). Yesterday I again did the continuity and voltage checks, this time I got 0 VAC from the stator. Continuity still passed the test. That said, it looks like an stator failure based on the diagnostics, but I was hoping to get other opinions before proceeding. Thanks Again. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The stator problems can come and go... for a while... and then they are there to stay. Make sure you are testing correctly... continuity tests measure resistance between pins and resistance from each pin to ground. VAC is an output voltage test (with bike running). That's measuring voltage, not ohms. | ||
| Verdad |
Reepicheep - Roger, thanks much. Just to make sure, I had the electrical manual right in my face and was reading it *very* slowly just to make sure I was doing it correctly. For the continuity check, I had an alligator clip on ground and would check my "zero" each time before I did the reading. The VAC check is what is leading me to think I blew the stator after I replaced the VR. The other day at 2k RPM I got the 50 VAC across pins 1 and 2. Yesterday, zip. Continuity was good though ('infinite'/open). | ||
| Reepicheep |
Going pin to pin, "infinite open" means you have a blown stator. Gooing pin to ground, "infinite open" is indeterminate (could be a good stator, could be a bad stator with a broken winding winding). The output test of voltage (preferably under load, but that's tough to do) is the best test. And because it can be intermittent, you have to hunt for the occasional failure, not just a quick check that it works once. Hooking up a household lamp or shop worklight with a 60 to 300 watt light bulb to the stator output would be a decent way to test the stator under load. Just make sure you have a heavy enough wire (like the gauge of the lamp wire). And it gives a nice solid indicator of stator performance... the bulb should be about half as bright hooked the bike at higher RPM as it would otherwise be plugged into the wall. (And... lets not kid ourselves. It would be cool to watch the lamp glow brighter with RPM.  ) |
