| Author | Message | ||
     Fltwistygirl |
On a ride over the weekend, the check engine light flashed on for about thirty seconds and then went off. It was early in the ride, the bike was still pretty cold. The bike has not been ridden since. I have no idea how to check the codes and do not have access to the shop manual at the moment. Left to my own devices, the first thing I did was check the oil level, and it was fine. I'd like to take the bike out locally to run errands today but don't want the day to end with a walk home. I have plan B transportation, but would prefer to get a start on this troubleshooting process. Are there other "simple" troubleshooting steps *I can take to help decide if the bike is safe to ride without someone following me with a trailer? * I am not the family mechanic. He is at work today  . Thanks! B. | ||
| Etennuly |
If reading a code is out I would start diagnosing by what you have said. The light came on and went out.....how did it run then? Were there any running issues? Did it ever back fire or pop? Did it quit running for a second or two? A lot of times a 'check enging' light can come on and not set a code. My next diagnostic move would be to fire it up and listen for any hiccups, then ride it. If no issues it is not unreasonable to think that it could have been a momentary electronic burp, not unlike a computer needing rebooted. Check the battery terminals. They can work loose. But while I was there, I would unhook one of them for a couple of minutes to let the ECM "kind of reboot". Then hook it up and ride the snot out of it!! | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for the reply, Vern. The bike was running fine when the CEL was on. I did let it run for about ten minutes when I checked the oil level. No CEL, and it ran fine. Makes sense to do a "reboot" with the battery terminals. On my short list: -Learn to read codes. I'll be taking more notes on our next bike maintenance day. -Become semi/sorta proficient with ecm spy/tuner pro. -Make sure the trailer tires are aired up and ready to go. "Just in case". | ||
| Motorbike |
Fltwistygirl, It is very easy to get the codes and this would go a long way towards diagnosing the problem. I am at work now so I do not have my manual but IIRC, all you do is jumper between two pins (#1 and #2, I think) on the diagnostic connector, turn the key on and read the sequence of flashes on the CE light. For example 'Flash, Flash, pause, Flash' would be a code 21 and so on. I believe it will flash each code three times and then move on to the next one. Once you get the codes, someone who has a manual in front of them can look at the chart to see what the code points to. That chart is probably somewhere here on BadWeb. Someone please correct me if I gave any bad info. It would be cool if you could debug it before "He" gets home! Good luck! | ||
| Schwara |
Assuming that copying and pasting is OK, here is an excerpt from the original post I found out on BuellXB from 2k4xb12 on 09/14/2005. I'm sure there is something similar out here as well, but I found this one first. "Easy. First thing to do is locate your diagnostic test plug under the seat. It's an empty four pin connector. If you're looking at it with the pins facing you and the locking tab at the 12:00 position, the pins are numbered as follows: Pin 1 -- upper right corner Pin 2 -- lower right corner Pin 3 -- lower left corner Pin 4 -- upper left corner With the ignition switch off, install a jumper wire across pins 1 and 2 in the diagnostic plug. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and wait approximately 8 seconds for the check engine light to start flashing. All trouble codes are sent out as a series of flashes. To retrieve the first digit of the code, simply observe the number of times the lamp flashes. The transmission of a trouble code is always preceded by six rapid flashes (about 3 per second). This transmission is followed by a 2 second pause in which the lamp is off. The lamp will then flash one or more times to indicate the first digit of the trouble code. The length of time that the lamp will be either on or off when indicating a trouble code is about 1 second in duration. Following the transmission of the first digit in the trouble code, there will be another two second pause before the second digit is transmitted. After the second digit is transmitted, there will be another 2 second pause. After the pause comes another intermission (six rapid flashes) after which the next stored code is transmitted in the same manner. Once all the trouble codes have been displayed, the sequence will repeat. If all you observe is the rapid flashing, then no trouble codes have been stored. When done, turn the ignition key off and remove the jumper wire. There is no way to clear trouble codes using this method. The only way to clear codes without hooking the bike up to a computer is to take the bike through 50 start and run cycles (start engine, run for at least 30 seconds, shut it off). The trouble codes are as follows: 11 Throttle position sensor 13 Oxygen sensor 14 Engine temperature sensor 15 Intake air temperature sensor 16 Battery voltage 21 Interactive muffler control (XB12 only) 23 Front fuel injector 24 Front ignition coil 25 Rear ignition coil 32 Rear fuell injector 33 Fuell pump 35 Tachometer 36 Cooling fan 43 Speed sensor (I added this one) 44 Bank angle sensor 52, 53, 54, 55 ECM failure 56 Cam sync failure" As of a week or so ago, prior to my tear down, I was showing codes 36 and 43 ... both confirmed my suspicions. I actually bought the XB Trouble Code Dongle from American Sport Bike because it just plugs right in and then has a laminated card with all of the codes on it. It works great and I keep it under my seat at all times. http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/9016.html I did also just find this post from here on BadWeb as well. The linked downloads go into a lot more detail than what is shown above. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/660121.html Good luck. | ||
| Uly_man |
Sorry to here that B. You can use the jumper way of doing it and it is helpful in the short term but later I would get a cable and ECM-SPY or other. Why? Well I had lots of faults on my bikes and the CEL never came on. Its just my opinion but I think it is a near useless system. From what I have found with the XB the three best things you can ever have is - a spare belt, a good breakdown service and ECM-SPY or Tuner-Pro as I have found you WILL need one or all of them at some point. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for all the replies. There is a lot of great info posted above and if it helps one more Bueller down the road its all good. So the good news/bad news is there were no error codes stored. Today we hooked the laptop up to the bike. He used both ECM-spy and Tuner-pro and nothing looked out of the ordinary. Since there were no error codes, our fingers are crossed that it was just a random hiccup that triggered the CEL. Rain and general ickiness here in Colorado today so hopefully it clears tomorrow. Hoping to get out and ride then without getting soaked to see if the CEL recurs. Meanwhile we will just keep on keeping on  ! | ||
| Nobuell |
I had a similar occurrence on my XT a few years ago. The CEL came on after hitting a bump in the road. It cleared and did not bother with it become t ran fine. Over the next couple weeks it developed a sporadic high idle that turned out to be a damaged ECU. I believe the seat hit either broke the ECU connector or pushed a failing connector over the brink. It would not hurt to wiggle the ECU connections and see if there is a change in the motor sound or a CEL. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
So here's the dealio: rode the bike locally for about three hours running errands yesterday and there were no issues. Checked the battery connections before leaving home and all was fine. Nobuell-we had ecm issues with both the x and the xt and have done ecm replacements and relocations on both bikes. As a bonus, we upgraded the xt to the EBR ecm when we confirmed the crack in the stocker. We had a similar experience with our first cracked ecm: the first symptom on the x was a seemingly random miss and a flash of the CEL. Had we known then what we know now about the tendency for these seats to rub on the ecms that have not been relocated, we would have saved ourselves a whole lot of stress and at least one night's hotel bill. If there is a recurrence of the CEL, we can play around with the ecm/connections, but at this point we are thinking it may have just been a hiccup. My key take-away after all this is personally feeling better equipped to deal with any blips the next time something goes awry. B. | ||
| Ourdee |
My CEL came on on the way to HC this year. Running 3000 rpm on the highway. It was cold when I rode home from work prior the this warm day ride. After 10+ miles of the CEL and nothing seaming wrong, I bumped the speed up to get the rpms to 3500. Bingo, the CEL went out. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Worth a try! B. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Well this is not a thread I hoped to revisit but here goes. Three more occasions in the past two days where the cel illuminated then went off. Cold engine in parking lot, hot engine on canyon road, hot engine on street. We got it home and he was able to pull an error code 16. He then checked and tightened battery connections and test rode it. Cel back on. Used trusty Voltmeter and battery was showing a little over twelve. I have not been diligently tendering it and have gone a few times this winter without riding it for ten to fourteen days at a pop (darn skis). So it is on the tender now and we are charging a plan b battery to eliminate or identify the battery as culprit. Hopefully. The battery is a h.d. and eight months old. Thoughts? Thx and happy fathers day! B. | ||
| Tootal |
Well I hope you found it but if that doesn't work check out the exhaust valve actuator. Before mine went completely out I got a couple of flashes from the dash light until one day it just stayed on. I was on a trip and was worried about it but decided to ride anyway and it ran fine. When I got home ecm spy showed it had failed. It's easy to check just in case. | ||
| Bikelit |
I may be mistaken, but I think the 08' - 09' EBR ECM will not show a trouble light for a failed valve actuator. | ||
| Schwara |
Bikelit is correct. The instruction sheet that came with my E.B.R. race ECM (09) indicates that no error codes are thrown for the exhaust actuator or the bank angle sensor. Both components still work if connected, but if disconnected or faulty you should not get a CEL. | ||
| Uly_man |
The CEL should be fine even with a battery of 12v and the HD battery should be fine as well. The CEL only shows, if it stays on, "open" circuits (dead) and not faulty (out of cal) sensors, bad Earths or over/under battery charging. It is just not that clever. The FI system will not work below 11.1v so it may show that up on the CEL if you have a "on/off" charging problem with the bike via a damaged cable/plug or with the VR etc. Given that you have had blown lamps in the past (possible volt spikes) and that you are getting more CEL warnings I would say you have something going on with the bike. I would do one of two things if this continues. Fit a voltage monitor, the easy option, to see if the voltage changes while running the bike. Or use TunerPro and run a log until the CEL comes on and then look through the data for a volt change. | ||
| Froggy |
Fltwistygirl - It is hard to say without having a voltage monitor on the bike it is hard to say for sure, but I would be suspecting your voltage regulator as failing. A monitor will let you see voltage drops/spikes long before the the bike will give the CEL. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Well, we may have a new clue. The new (8 month old) hd battery will not take and hold a full charge. More time for troubleshooting on Sunday. I think it is still under warranty???? | ||
| Uly_man |
Take off or disconnect the battery. Put it on a less than 2 amp electronic charger over night. After standing for two hours it should, depending on how good your meter is, show a voltage of about 12.7v. | ||
| Closetbueller |
Just for fun, I checked voltage after the bike had sat un-run for a week and got 12.55v I then checked the voltage on my Uly that gets 400 miles of weekly commuting and got 12.65. I noticed that the battery tender pigtail on the XT was not capped and was not tucked under the vent cover where we normally put it at. I capped the pigtail and went out to ride to try and replicate, but no issue fount. running voltage is now showing right around 14.2 v. gonna go ride some more and hope it was a ground fault caused by the bare -terminal of the pigtail grounding somewhere and causing the voltage fluctuation. | ||
| Dr_greg |
The CEL on my '06 Uly #1 came on (then went off) about 10 minutes before I hit the deer. I think it was a "deer early warning alert." So keep your eyes open! --Doc | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Our eyes are always open for those "ditch rats", Doc. Saw two of them yesterday on our brief troubleshooting ride, just hanging out and chewing on some leaves. How handy that these Buells are equipped with CEL's that double as deer alert indicators! Those mule deer are odd looking indeed, and way bigger than the "key deer" we were accustomed to dodging in FL. We are also getting used to seeing antelope in most fields, and elk that just wander around in parking lots in Estes Park. We've seen antelope jumping over and crawling under barbed wire fences, as well as jogging down the highway. Oh, and the free range cattle that make themselves at home on any road not discouraged by cattle grates! Wild west indeed! So, yesterday I got a CEL for about 20 seconds, and we soon after turned around, went home, parked the bike. The bike is showing error code 16 again. We the took four wheels in search of a voltage monitor. We picked one up and he worked on fabricating a mounting bracket for it. That should be fully functioning later this week. Meanwhile, I've been looking at a couple threads here which have me wondering about possible stator and voltage regulator failure and steps we can take to better ensure we don't end up replacing both. Wednesday is the next chance he will be able to troubleshoot. We are in a very blessed position to have two of the same make and model bikes which has made the trouble shooting process simpler in the past. What do you think the next step should be? Thanks, all! B. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Alright peeps. Tomorrow is trouble shooting day. Will it make any difference to hook up voltmeter to 12 volt outlet versus battery. We are in favor of quick disconnect for now. Thx. B | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Voltage monitor is hooked up and working. He is now on trouble shooting ride #3 since he finished fabricating the mounting bracket on Wednesday. Nothing unusual-no error codes, no voltage spikes or drops-on the first two rides. Maybe, just maybe, it was a loose connection or something simple that he tightened when he was giving the bike a once over. I guess time will tell. B. | ||
| Kip |
Do you have stock exhaust? My light kept coming on and going off. It was the exhaust valve actuator which was not being used since I took out the cable for the KD fab exhaust. I replaced the unit on top of the air box and no more check engine light. Good luck | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"Do you have stock exhaust?" Yes, stock exhaust. He has now taken it for four troubleshooting rides with no fluctuation in voltage and no error codes. While sorting this out, we flip-flopped bikes so he is commuting to work on the XT and I am flitting around on the X. Not hoping that I need it or anything but I've got the proper hitch on the truck and the trailer is ready to go "just in case" there are any issues with the XT. Fingers crossed that we get this ironed out before we head back to MN. | ||
| Kip |
There is a test for the exhaust valve actuator you can do to see if it is working correctly. I found it here before and mine did not make the test cycle. Just a thought. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for the idea, Kip. I am open to any ideas at this point. Intermittent problems are the worst. Tomorrow is another troubleshooting day. Yee-haw. | ||
| Nateba |
Fltwistygirl- I had very similar problems to what you are experiencing right now on my '08 XB12X. I would get random and intermittent CEL's. Another Badwebber checked for codes with ECMspy and it threw code 16, which is battery voltage (with a brand new battery). Sometimes the bike would run okay, and sometimes it would stutter and die for no reason. I ended up replacing my stator and voltage regulator. I would definitely recommend checking the stator. Mine was grounded; who knows for how long. A grounded stator will make the bike do lots of weird things. | ||
| Buewulf |
You guys have two Uly's if I remember correctly, no? Assuming you have already checked ALL of the grounds. 1) First thing I would do is swap batteries between your two bikes and see what happens. 2) If no change, the second thing I would do is swap VRs and see what happens. If I were a gambling man, I'd put my money on this one. I know your bike doesn't have the infamous 77 connector, but you may want to check the connection anyway. Those new connections are sturdy and well sealed, but you never know. I also had an issue where a zip tie used to keep that wire out of harms way had chafed the insulation enough that there was intermittent arcing occurring giving similar symptoms to what you described. That is probably a one-in-a-million deal, but you may want to check that out as well. If that gets you nowhere, then the possibility that the stator is in a death rattle would shoot to the top of my suspicions. |
