| Author | Message | ||
     General_ulysses |
I know the older Ulys have narrower diameter fork tubes and a less rigid triple tree. How does this translate into handling and feel of the two bikes? Trying to decide of the newer bikes are worth the extra dough or if the handling differences between the older and newer bikes are imperceptible. | ||
| Kevmean |
Newer ones have more steering lock as well due to different yolks putting the forks in front of the axle. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I don't know that the triple trees ars any less rigid on older Ulys. The 08-up X's (NOT the XT's) have larger diameter fork tubes. On these bikes, the triple trees offset the fork tubes towards the front of the bike to allow more steering lock as Kevmean says. The axle is offset to the rear ("behind" the centerline of the fork tubes) so that the same steering geometry is maintained as on the earlier X's and all XTs). I believe the purpose of the larger fork tubes is to compensate for the higher stresses imposed by the "off center" axle. The 06/07 X (and 08-10 XT) forks are plenty stiff, so I don't think the larger fork tubes provided any noticeable improvement in rigidity or handling. | ||
| Froggy |
The handling feels the same, but the big difference is in the fork dive on 07 and newer bikes. 08+ X and XP are quite a bit easier to maneuver in parking lots and other tight situations due to the different trees. Get a 08+ bike, not because of the forks but because they have significant improvements over the older bikes. | ||
| Ratbuell |
...like not being able to set your own idle speed and your own base timing, like you can on the 06/07 bikes?  Love my 06. I put the 07 progressive rate fork springs in it, and wouldn't change a thing from here out. | ||
| Froggy |
You mean like how I can press a button to adjust the idle to any exact RPM I want, including programming it to change based on voltage, temperature, and whether the clutch is in or out?  | ||
| General_ulysses |
So the thicker fork tubes and beefed up triple tree makes no difference in handling? Then why did they make this change at all? And what are you guys talking about when you say the idle speed can be changed by pressing a button? | ||
| Hughlysses |
So the thicker fork tubes and beefed up triple tree makes no difference in handling? Then why did they make this change at all? I explained that above. The triple trees were altered so that the fork tubes could be moved forward to allow more steering lock. This means that the 2008-up X and XP Ulys can turn much sharper than earlier Ulys. The fork tubes were beefed up on the 08-up X & XP's to handle the eccentric loads imposed on them by moving the front axle rearward to maintain the same steering geometry. Froggy is apparently talking about home-brewed electronic mods to his Uly. On the 08-up bikes, the idle speed is controlled by an Idle Air Valve (IAV) which is regulated by the ECM. On earlier bikes, there's just a set screw that regulates the idle position of the throttle butterfly. | ||
| General_ulysses |
Thanks hughlysses. I wasn't doubting your explanation, it just sounded like you weren't completely sure about why the fork change had been made. I also thought the XT model has the same turning angle (steering lock to lock) as the 08 and newer X models. But it sounds like the XT essentially kept the older pre 08 front end except it lowered it a bit and took off the beak. Is that right? What I don't understand is if the effective geometry is the same (accounting for axle offset), for simplicities sake, why didn't they just use the same front end on both the 08+ X and XT except with travel and fender changes? It's as if the pre-08 front ends were considered more road worthy than the 08 on up X front ends. Otherwise why would the factory endure the expense of manufacturing and tooling for two front ends? We're they just using up old inventory on the XTs because the narrower steering lock is less of an issue on a more street version of the Uly? | ||
| Hughlysses |
But it sounds like the XT essentially kept the older pre 08 front end except it lowered it a bit and took off the beak. Is that right? That's essentially correct. Besides having shorter fork legs, the XT's have different springs (triple rate IIRC) and I believe different valving from the earlier X's. Your guess is good as mine for why they kept the smaller forks on the XT. It's probably true at least to some extent that Buell kept their design similar to the earlier forks to use up remaining inventory of fork parts or at least minimize the cost of producing the forks. The main point I wanted to make is I've never seen anyone (including magazine reviewers) complain about the front end or general handling of the 06/07 Ulys, apart from the limited steering lock, so I'm pretty sure the fork tubes were not increased in size to correct some deficiency. | ||
| Ratbuell |
There's not even a "limited steering lock" issue if you lean the bike like you're supposed to instead of simply steering it. I can pull a U turn on a 2 lane without using the shoulders with no problem on my 06. Remember also, commonality to other XB front ends as far as parts go. Keeping the XT front end "old style" likely let it share many parts with firebolts and lightnings. Froggy probably needs a laptop to make all his changes...I need an Allen key and a screwdriver | ||
| General_ulysses |
Thanks again for the replies. Yeah I've only read good things about the handling and ride quality of all Ulys. The only thing that poses a nagging worry in the back of my mind is how long legged the forks are on the tall X Uly. Longer travel/taller forks of any given diameter are more flexy than the same fork with shorter travel. So when I see them beefing up the forks and triple tree on the 08+ long travel X model and shortening the travel of the XT - which retains the smaller dia tubes - it makes me suspicious Buell engineers were at least partially concerned with tank slapper syndrome. I saw a thread somewhere on this site that had pics of a Uly that went down hard after the rider had developed a tank slapper in a turn. It looked like his front wheel had imploded due to the oscillation - or maybe it caused it? Hard to say, but I believe it was a pre 08 Uly. | ||
| Etennuly |
With near 60,000 miles on my '06 mostly in East Tennessee mountains, I have had no situations ever appear that a tank slapper motion has resulted. It is very stable even under stupid conditions, like coming out of a corner too hard with the front tire off the ground while still leaned in, or setting the front tire back down onto loose gravel after a first gear wheelie, to hitting a wet spot mid corner. That is one thing I have not heard much conversation about from Uly riders unless they were talking about their "other" bikes. Don't forget the X was designed to see some off road use, the XT a street bike. If I recall correctly most of the complaints that had real meaning about the X's limited steering lock was in off road situations where a tighter turn is necessary. Again the XT was designed for street use. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That picture had WAY too many unexplained and likely impossible circumstances... The odds of it being as a result of "oscillations" are about as good as the odds of me winning the Ohio Lottery. And I don't even play the Ohio Lottery. My 07 handles great. More like a dual sport than the scalpel my XB9SX was, but not slow or hard to manage. It's just a "swoopier turn" for lack of a better term. | ||
| Arcticktm |
'06 front end is plenty good, and certainly not flexy in any negative way. I did change mine to '07 fork springs and an appropriate oil height to match to reduce excessive dive under braking. No excessive flex, no wandering, no slappers. It is one of the best front ends for rider feedback I have ridden, including my previous Ducati (which was pretty darn good itself). And of course the Ducati was a short travel fork, unlike the Uly. Handling and suspension are certainly 2 of the great strengths of any year of these bikes. If you are concerned about steering lock being too tight, then look for the '08+. I got used to it on my '06, but still wouldn't mind it being greater in very tight quarters. Don't mind enough to justify the parts and effort to change it, though. | ||
| Froggy |
Laptop? People still have those? You can do it all from your phone these days, you could do it without even having to get off the bike or digging around for tools and getting your hands dirty. The best part is you can change it for one specific setting without screwing up anything else on the bike, unlike on the 06 when you raise the idle a tad it can stick open and hang, or lower it a tad and the bike won't start in the cold. On the 08 you can adjust the idle controller to increase or decrease the amount of engine braking when you roll off the throttle, can't do that on the 06. | ||
| Etennuly |
But Froggy.....My hands are usually too dirty to be using one of those expensive phone gismos!(at $400 and $50 a month I wouldn't want it to get dirty or scratched) I'll stick to my MANual tuning ABILITY and $1.00 allen wrench for setting my idle.  As for '06 front end dive.....eat more! If you weigh enough you will have that compressed before you start!  | ||
| Etennuly |
Froggy, you will probably never understand how much better life was when phones were still attached to a chord. A time when people everywhere walked around with their heads up and ears open. Live conversation was paramount and immediate. My kids and grandkids annoy me to no end when I have to wait until they are done texting to get their head phones off to speak to them.....EVERY TIME!  | ||
| Froggy |
The cost is not an issue, you can get brand new non phone devices running on Android for under a hundred bucks that will allow you to do what you want, and have additional functionality like web browser (Badweb in your hand), PDF viewer for manuals, and other functionality like a plumb level, compass, maps, and other things. It is one of those tools that you don't realize that you needed it till after you have it.
Things weren't better, the world just worked differently. Everything was slower, more expensive, and more time consuming. Now everything is faster, more flexible, and more efficient,
You are doing it wrong, don't fight the change, embrace it. Faster and easier communication. My mother is the only person that I know that still places calls like some kind of Neanderthal. In the time it takes her to dial a number I could have sent an email/sms/web search and have received an answer. Imagine the things you could do if you combine your old world skills and expertise with 21st century enhancements. | ||
| Motorbike |
About the only thing I like about computers is being able to read and participate on this forum. Otherwise, I could live without..... I'm with Etennuly, life was better without computers. Froggy, you were born too late to ever understand that, not your fault, of course. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Got any pointers to ECM spy with an Android? Just bought a Nexus 7 for $200... slick little device if you can stand the "&^&^ your privacy" ecosystem. It will be coming along on road trips, it would be nice if I could make it control ECMSpy (or whatever). | ||
| Tootal |
If you want more steering on the 06/07 you can put the 08 triple trees on the older bike and it works fine. The geometry is technically different but I can't tell the difference. I have a phone...I make phone calls with it! I can adjust my idle one time and be done. No electronic do-dad to clean or replace when it screws up!  | ||
| Kevmean |
ECMSpy with an android  http://ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16199&h ilit=ecmdroid | ||
| Reepicheep |
$40 to spark fun and some futzing huh? Meh. | ||
| Kevmean |
The biggest advantage I can see for ecmdroid is that if you have a suitable Android phone you will have diagnostic equipment with you on all of your journeys :-) .....slip the dongle in your luggage and away you go. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The other advantage is that with the wires and laptops and bike in pieces and idling with hot exhausts, the whole rig gets pretty tippy and it's easy to hurt a good laptop. A tablet with no wires as a tangle hazzard would be a lot safer for everyone involved. | ||
| Motorbike |
Even with all your fancy gadgets, what are you going to do if your bike quits halfway through Nebraska for instance? Sure, you may be able to figure out what you need but where are you going to get parts? I'm just sayin'...... Besides, you need special tools for some repairs also. I don't think there is enough tools in my fancy Buell tool kit to replace a O2 sensor for example... | ||
| Froggy |
There is not a single thing in your life that is not better with computers. You think you can live without them, but you do not realize how much you are relying on them, even if you are not directly interacting with one. Without computers, your cost of living will triple, it will take several times longer to get things. It also takes several times longer to anything, whether it is something simple like looking up a phone number, or calculating a complex math equation. Regardless of what profession you have, computers simply make everything faster, easier, and more efficient and profitable. Look at Wal Mart for example, their early investment into computers in the early 90s allowed them to have a major advantage over their competitors, giving them a boost to become one of the biggest companies ever.
Unfortunately I don't yet, I do not have a bluetooth dongle yet so I have been limited on what I can do with ECMDroid. It appears that if you are familiar with the workings of ECMspy you be familiar with this.
You are among a dying trend
No, you can only adjust your throttle body opening, not actually control just the idle.
Kinda like those throttle body shafts?
Ok lets say you are cruising down the interstate in the middle of nowhere and your belt breaks. Or your bearings fail. Or your carburetor dies. Or your headlights melt. A portable computer is not going to fix any of those.
Actually yes, you can fix this on the side of the road with ECMspy, I've done it. You do need special tools however to remove and press in new wheel bearings. | ||
| Tootal |
Kinda like those throttle body shafts? Actually mine has never broke! I've been waiting for an intake leak or something to give me an excuse to tear it apart! | ||
| Xdigitalx |
"like coming out of a corner too hard with the front tire off the ground while still leaned in" That is a stupid condition?? I freaking LOVE IT when that happens!! |
