| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_dude |
I just installed shiney new spark plugs n wires as part of my winter maint. I got some irridium plugs from Al at A S B. Of course I didn't read his well marked boxes that said, "do not gap", and proceeeded to gap these plugs to the manual spec of .035. It would appear that Al had it gapped at .030. How important is that little bit of gap difference with the irridium plugs? Is it worth taking them out again and gapping them back to what Al had them at? BTW, it's not difficult to remove these plugs. I'll show you why later. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The point of not gapping those fancy plugs is that you may have damaged the very thin iridium coating that is supposed to protect the electrodes from erosion. And no, .005" is nothing to worry about really. I wouldn't bother to take them out. | ||
| Etennuly |
A general rule about plug gapping I learned many decades ago, hold the new plug up to the light, if the ground electrode is at a 90 degree bend, the firing surface is perpendicular to the electrode, don't mess with it. If it looks bent or damaged check it more closely for other damage or cracking of the insulator. I have not seen plugs that were made with anything other than the gap they should have since the early 70's. If you open a new box and the gap is wrong, you probably have the wrong plugs. Check them out before bending all of them. | ||
| Uly_dude |
I did check them out and thats how I got to this point. I've been gappin plugs since I was a little kid rebuilding briggs n stratons. I didn't realize that about the iridium coating though. I only thought the electrode was made of iridium. I was careful I didn't use the feeler guage to widen the gap so the coating shouldn't be too much scratched(I hope) Check out the new permanent way I made to get at the rear plug with a 1" hole drill. Worked like a charm and no structural concerns to worry about.......   | ||
| Uly_man |
Holeeeeeeeeeeee Hanna, Dude? That part of the bike is not just a mount for the air box base but also a "torsion" brace for the frame as well? You have now introduced a weak point in the frame that may crack. This may put more strain, which it was designed to stop, on other parts of the frame due to the "twisting" forces of the drive train. Which are BIG on a V-Twin. I do not know about the USA but in the UK this would make your bike near worthless. And 100% as far as an insurance claim would be. Man thats soooooooo scary. | ||
| Thumper1203 |
Huh.... brilliant! I don't see any structural issues  . (7/8 may be workable, though) | ||
| Uly_man |
Screw all that? I am going to cut away my frame and replace them with Gibson hollow body guitars. MPG may be a problem due to the fuel running out of the F holes. So I will either have to play faster or ride faster? | ||
| Motorbike |
Uly_man, I'm not an engineer, as you are, but it is just my opinion that he did not damage the frame. Since the hole is round and no sharp edges or corners, I think it is unlikely to crack. How much force could be on that piece anyway? If he had cut a chunk out starting at the edge, then I would agree with you. All of this is strictly my opinion of course and I may be all wrong. How about some more opinions from other engineers out there? | ||
| Etennuly |
Hey Uly Man. Have you structurally tested his modification from an engineering stand point? Flexed or bent a few frames to qualify it as not good? A round hole equally distributed over both sides of the angle probably is not as detrimental as you are going on about. If it gets into a wreck that would bend the main spar of the fuel tank it would surly be given a weak spot to bend from, but at that point it would already be totaled, no? If by chance a crack started in the hole from stress the plug could simply be welded back in it. It is not that big of a deal. I spent a good number of years drilling holes in frames, suspension parts, and everything else on a race car. Swiss cheese is actually self sustaining, unless hit in a manor that would ruin it anyway. To calm your fears one could weld in a fitted washer or a tube to bridge any stress over the hole. I doubt it would be needed on a street bike. If he were racing or jumping it like a MX bike.....but then, he would have other problems. | ||
| Garrcano |
Sorry, but I also think the hole is too big. Maybe an 1/4" hole didn't matter, but this is too much alteration in the structure, which I wouldn't do without the advise of an expert. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
From gapping your spark plugs to a  frame. Have a  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The fact that it spans the angle is going to cause significant weakening (IMHO). If it was a flat piece and you put a hole in the middle, maybe it's not a big deal. But an angled piece with a hole in the middle then becomes a folding point. Try it. Cut a piece of paper in half, fold each half into a 90 degree L shape. Cut a round hole in the middle of one across the angle. Load both. I did, it makes a huge difference. | ||
| Britchri10 |
Personally, I wouldn't do it to my bike. However, things today are so "over engineered" that I don't think (from my totally ignorant POV) that it will be a problem. That being said, I wouldn't buy a bike with that mod'. Each to their own. Chris C | ||
| Uly_dude |
I knew my modification would spark a bit of discussion. That's ok, I respect everyone's opinion, and that's what these are. Unless someone takes a frame, drills that hole and starts putting all sorts of twist on it, we'll never know for sure. I agree, if I were jumping motocross style or overwhelming my suspension, a hole like this MIGHT make a difference. But I'm not. The Uly is my street touring ride with an off road attitude. I have an XR600 in the garage next to it for those times I want to get crazy. It's really how we treat the bike, right? I mean, I've seen these frames get in accidents and get all bent up without any holes drilled in it. I have no plans to do that kind of damage to my bike. But stuff happens. I believe this plate/bracket is to keep the gas tank/frame from twisting in some catastrophic event or the motor mounts don't do their job. Judging by all the other large holes/slots in this bracket by Buell I feel secure with my small-ish hole. Tell ya what, after about a month of riding I'll pop off the air filter pan and have a real close look at it this summer and report back then. Personally I think Buell should've installed a hole like this for an important maint item like these plugs. Wait til you see what I did with the left side air scoop over the winter.........  | ||
| Etennuly |
Well if you think about it structurally it is simply a bridge bar, the engine mount is attached on the other side. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Hey Uly Man. Have you structurally tested his modification from an engineering stand point? Flexed or bent a few frames to qualify it as not good?" No, I have not. But I have seen cracks develop from something as little as a scratch on alloy or a rivet hole. I used to work in the aircraft industry and would see it all the time. Ok the Uly is not an aircraft nor do I want to go into the details of metals and such. One thing is for sure you CAN NOT re-jig an alloy frame bike like a steel tube one. An insurance engineer will always "write off" an alloy framed bike even if it has just a scratch on it. The reason is because of the nature of alloy and thus its integrity can no longer be proved without long and costly testing as it can end up being more than the bikes worth. I know its not the USA but here in the UK we have to have a "road worthy" test every year on our bikes/cars. This mod would fail this and even a repair may be suspect if they found it. But apart from any of that the REAL kicker is that this was not needed anyway because with a little practice and the right tools the plug is easy enough to change anyway. Oh and things are NOT over engineered today. Its 100% the other way. Most stuff has a "built in" wear rate/life and not designed to last much past this. Thats the reason your Jap tv may crap out two months after the warranty ran out. They need to sell you another to make money. | ||
| Etennuly |
Oh and things are NOT over engineered today. Its 100% the other way. Most stuff has a "built in" wear rate/life and not designed to last much past this. Thats the reason your Jap tv may crap out two months after the warranty ran out. They need to sell you another to make money. « So true. And I agree the hole is not needed when a $12 wiggle end extension will work without it. But I sure would not scrap the bike for it. Back in the sixties and seventies you could not just buy light weight suspension parts for your race cars like today. I worked on drag cars where we drilled so many 1" holes in the lower control arms to lighten them I had to look the other way when the front tires came off the ground for fear they would collapse going down the strip at well over 130 mph. But they held up. The dirt track cars we built back then were called "throw away cars" because the way they were engineered was to take away as much of everything as could be done that would allow for the axles to stay on and the engine to stay in. We did a good solid cage for the driver and everything else was considered dead weight to be removed if possible. I don't know how some of that stuff stayed together for an entire season. Smooth round holes and extreme triangulation was the key. | ||
| Arcticktm |
+1 on things NOT being overengineered today. While we have gotten phenomenally better at predicting reliability and durability, all that analytical expertise is being used to better optimize designs to reduce weight and cost on most products. FEA allows us to try and reduce weight in 100 different ways (or 1000) in less time than building and testing 1 prototype. I am not a fan of a 1" hole in my frame brace, either, but it's not my bike. I would just not want to buy this bike used and later find out someone had done this. I'd be ticked if they had not disclosed it. I am picturing a "folding" weak spot, like Reepi mentioned. Suppose it would not take more than a few hours to model a simple version and do a quick/dirty FEA on both versions. that would be something to do before making the mod, though. without seeing my bike, doesn't the rear shock mount go to this piece? Hope not. Don't recall at the moment. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Ha! lost my original thought in fanciful imaginary engineering. Uly-dude - just bought iridium plugs from American Sport Bike for my bike. Al specifically said not to gap them due to risk of damage (breaking) the fragile center electrode. Specifically, do not use the "ramp type" gap tool that presses on the center electrode. He confirmed they should be set properly as they arrive, but would be wise to check to make sure. Said he'd only seen a couple cases where the gap seemed to be off out of the box. That being said, if you already did so, and they seem to be working fine, leave it be would be my vote. |
