| Author | Message | ||
     Pontlee77 |
Today i did a 600klms ride first 300 all fine stopped to meet a friend the on the way back after 100 klms the bike started skipping, the tack revs a few times went wild so did the speed needle, during 200 kls the skipping was coming and going i was riding between 120 and 140 klms/h it would do it erratic, got home and checked with ecm spy for error codes, none at all, all seemed to be ok. What do you think about this, i seem to remember there was a thread about this. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
On these bikes it's almost always the ECM. Have you inspected it closely for rub marks? Have you relocated it? Wiggle the connectors while the bike's running and see if that affects anything. | ||
| Fordhotline |
I just had an issue something like this. I found it to be the TPS sensor. Using ecm spy the tps voltage looked fine. I back probed the tps sensor and my voltage was jumping around. I guess ecm spy was a little slow in updating?? Anyway. New tps from Al at American Sport Bike and she is running great. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
ecm relocated, tps was a 2007 change in 2009 shoulde'nt be going wrong but i'll check it, will go checking spark plugs grounds and could it be heat making the ecm have problems? | ||
| Fordhotline |
If the solder is damaged on the circuit board already. Heat can still cause intermitent opens. Do you have a low seat that may have been rubbing? Plugs could be a problem, even worn wires. I had arching plug wires cause skipping when damp when i first got my Uly. When it was acting up on you. Did the skipping go away under wide open heavy accel. Above 4000? | ||
| Uly_man |
Pontlee77 - Get TunerPro and do a logged run with it. "I guess ecm spy was a little slow in updating??" On its own ECM-SPY is no good for this. TunerPro will show ALL data including TPS volts but you will need to set it up. If you need help let me know. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
My ECM problems were heat related, it turned out that extreme heat (+95F) caused the plastic in the seat to soften allowing more sag and thus rubbing. But if you relocated yours... | ||
| Uly_man |
While I understand that a "easy fix" is cool the problem with FI is that it is doing things faster than most can see or know about. The only way is INFORMATION and that you will only get from a running a log on the bike. Yes you can "second guess" a problem or just change out parts and be lucky but sometimes that does not work and can cost a bundle. Of all the bikes, cars and other control systems I have had to deal with, some of which are just stupidly complicated, the Buell tops them all as the hardest to figure. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you can get an oscilloscope on the CPS sensor while it is "stalling" it is really easy to diagnose a bad one. | ||
| Buewulf |
If you can get an oscilloscope on the CPS This forum is a great place to develop a severe case of tool envy. Correct that ecmspy won't refresh quickly enough to give you the whole story on the TPS. You can test it with a cheap analog voltmeter, though. Change in the throttle position should correlate with movement of the gauge. With respect to your ECM, I personally don't think relocation solves the problem entirely (though it no doubt decreases the likelihood of failure significantly). I am convinced that the solder joints can also crack from heat cycling alone as well as pressure. Diagnose what you can, but 9 out of 10 times, it comes back to these damn ECMs. | ||
| Buewulf |
If you can get an oscilloscope on the CPS This forum is a great place to develop a severe case of tool envy. Correct that ecmspy won't refresh quickly enough to give you the whole story on the TPS. You can test it with a cheap analog voltmeter, though. Change in the throttle position should correlate smoothly with movement of the gauge. With respect to your ECM, I personally don't think relocation solves the problem entirely (though it no doubt decreases the likelihood of failure significantly). I am convinced that the solder joints can also crack from heat cycling alone as well as pressure. Diagnose what you can, but 9 out of 10 times, it comes back to these damn ECMs. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
Ulyman, as i'm not used to tunerpro, i was wondering if doing a recording on megalog via ecmspy would give some kind of info, because it looks like tuner pro is quite dificoult to use. | ||
| Teeps |
Buewulf Posted on Monday, October 08, 2012 I am convinced that the solder joints can also crack from heat cycling alone as well as pressure. Add, vibration and sub standard soldering process, to the above. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
The ECM is a EBR and it seems pretty solid with no connector crack or looking by any way loose. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
Could it be the fuel pump? I did a diagnose and it was not running right, than i did a second one and it run fine. | ||
| Buewulf |
It certainly could be. | ||
| Etennuly |
It sounds like your '06 possibly has more than one problem. If the engine goes into safe mode "run/skip" for an over heat condition it will not throw a code, as it is a normal temporary condition for the ECM to overcome. Was your fan coming on normally? Did it do it as you reached about 60 mph? Was the air temperature around 70F + ? Mine would hit run/skip every time it hit these two conditions as time went on. On mine the fan was not coming on as it was getting hot enough to. I replaced the Temp sensor and fixed a couple of wires to no avail. I ended up putting a switch on my fan and manually leave it on all of the time that the engine is running. It cured my run/skip that the HD shop could not figure out. Some folks have reported that changing the ECM did fix it. I replaced mine with a known good one that made no difference. If your front steering neck grounds are failing it will not necessarily throw a code as well as if the red power wire in the steering neck wire bundle is breaking at the triple splice. It is buried in the harness where it has to bend when turning. These problems made my gages go nuts on my '06. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
Etennully, the fan works fine and when it should do, as lately it has been raining i need to do a ride when the weather is clear and see what is what with this other ecm i have, but your info is very good and i may follow your steps. Thanks. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
On my '08, the speedo and tach needles run a full sweep of the gauges when first powered up. Do earlier models do the same? With this system, any sort of power interruption, loose ground, broken power feed, loose connection at the battery, will cause the gauges to jump as well as cause running issues. | ||
| Xbimmer |
ECM grounds out at the left front of the battery tray, there's a junction connector of three black wires at that point. Have you ground off the powdercoat at that point and cleaned the connection up? You're having gauge sweeps with power loss, screams out power interruption to me. "All electrical problems are ground related until proven otherwise", per Al. When mine was doing that it ended up being the ECM. Before replacing it though when I cleaned up all the grounds it ran much better, at least until the ECM would cut out again. Real fun when leaving a light on a right hand turn. | ||
| Etennuly |
Mark, yeah, that is a normal condition for the '06's as well. When they momentarily loose power it is the same as shutting it off then turning it back on, the needles sweep when they power up. | ||
| Firemanjim |
ECM is powered through one of the circuit breakers, right? If it is going it will intermittently cut power. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
took a ride today with the other ecm, problem is still there, but happened less temperature was lower, and while in heavy traffic and slow riding when i hit the throttle it happened. So what do you suggest? fan was working fine gas tank was full, wasen't constant was kind of erratic on hard aceel. | ||
| Etennuly |
Here is my thought on this problem. It could have been why my '06 works well with a manual fan switch. The fan is controlled by its ground within and through the ECM. I took my fan control completely away from the ECM and the bike runs fine. I am thinking that the fan, for what ever reason is causing too much of a ground load for the ECM to have the power it needs to do it's other functions. I had a run/skip problem for a couple of years when the temps were above 70F and the speed went above 60 mph or so. Changing to a known good ECM did nothing. Months of trying everything I could throw at it did nothing. Then on a hot summer day on the way home from Homecoming I decided to wire the fan directly on all of the time. It worked. I rigged a switch and it has been functioning better than ever from the moment I wired it. Whether it be a ground load or hot wire load, too much load can make the ECM lack it's required voltage to function normally. I am not an engineer, just a bodyman who spent too many months pissed at HD for failing to find a fix and telling me it was not an actual problem, they would not ride it to the prescribed speed, they just hammered on it in their lot and told me they could not find a fault. It never threw a code.....my fan switch may not be a normal kind of repair, but it has worked excellently for me. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
Etennuly, I'd like to see how you wired the fan, and i was wondering if i disconnect the fan while is cold and the bike runs right i may have to do the switch thing you did to the fan. Thanks for the guide, i'm a bit pissed with this issue as my X1 is broken and as is a long term job to repair, i'd like to be able to ride (unfortunatelly the weather forecast is rain for the next few days). | ||
| Luftkoph |
Pontlee77 sorry I'm late to the party again,but I was just reading through this and you said the bike has an EBR ecm,and I think there is a distinct possibility that the ecm spy can screw up an EBR ecm,or so I've read on these forums. | ||
| Dtaylor |
If the problem turns out to be an ECM/fan issue, it should be easy to incorporate a relay into the fan circuit to lighten the ECM's load. (Message edited by dtaylor on November 17, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I hear you on the tool envy thing. You can get a light use highly portable digital storage oscilloscope for $100. It ain't a fluke by any measure, but if you are careful with it, it seems to hold up pretty well. So back to my earlier comment, I was thinking crank position sensor, not throttle position sensor. You need the scope to check it. The scope makes it really easy to see other transient problems as well. I have a degree in electrical engineering and do analog and digital designs just for fun, so I know lot about circuits and tricks for testing them, and even I can't get very far with an analog meter for these kinds of intermittant / odd problems. You could start swapping parts also... and stock up or sell off the ones it turns out weren't bad. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
what i will try first is removing the fuse of the fan and see how the bike works if that solves it then i'll sort out the thing about the relay. Wish me luck when the weather gets better. | ||
| Danair |
Removing the fuse will give a CEL when ecm calls for fan. |
