| Author | Message | ||
     Dmcutter |
I had an '06 Uly I rode for a couple of years and sold, and have been without any (motorized) two wheeler for the last 3 years as I have amused myself with my bicycles and 4 wheel crotch rocket Subaru...I am now ready to come back into the fold and have narrowed my choices to an '08 or later Uly or the KTM 990 SMT. I have searched this forum and others and found a few head to head comparos between the two bikes, but just wondered if any faithful Uly riders have messed with that Katoom relatively recently and just not posted about it? There are no used 990s to speak of that I have found for sale, so a new one would run me about twice what I would pay for the Uly. I have a hard time believing that it's twice the bike. I would be doing mostly road but the occasional gravel and fire road. My recollection is that my 06, with the stock D616 tires and limited steering lock, presented no issues with any unpaved surface I ventured on to. I would likely shoe the new one with Scorpion Trails. Any comments? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Both great bikes I'm sure. I've not ridden the KTM, but like you observe, it's pretty much mathematically impossible that it's twice as good a bike as a Uly. I'd love my Uly regardless... but the fact that I picked up a 2007 in very good shape and 10k miles with hard side bags for $5000 means its about the freaking greatest motorcycle that has ever been built. Even the parts situation is similar. In theory, the Uly is from an out of business division, and the KTM is a current model. But in practice, my Uly parts have never been easier to get, and my buddies with KTM's (two of them) can get parts, but it takes searching, and a lot of time and money. Of course that could change if Harley decides they are going to shaft Buell owners with regards to parts. Which isn't, based on past performance, much of a stretch of imagination. | ||
| Buewulf |
Dmcutter, Take this with a grain of salt as I have a bit of a KTM bias - the 950 Adventure in my profile pic is the only bike I have ever truly loved... Don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.  As far as the SMT goes, I recently test rode a used 2010 bike for about half an hour. I'll say that it is pretty spartan with respect to accessories. You get a 12V outlet, but that is it in the way of luxuries: no heated grips or fancy farkles on the instruments. That may or may not matter to you. It is expensive, but it looks and feels expensive where as my Buell looks and feels like it rolled off a Tonka assembly line. The suspension is top-notch and fully adjustable, and it rails. The seat feels great, though it can be difficult to tell how good a seat really is with just 30 minutes in the saddle. The tranny is so smooth, and the gearing is excellent with a pretty low 1st gear and great spacing between 2nd and 6th. Fantastic engine, awesome ABS brakes, killer looks (IMHO) and character. With respect to parts, Repicheep isn't really exaggerating. Unless you have a good dealer that stocks common items (mine did not, and I could not find one anywhere near me that did), the aftermarket will be your friend. For things the aftermarket cannot provide, it is either ebay or a wait. I have been told by a dealer here that carries KTM dirtbikes that KTM has some very strange and oppressive rules with respect to their dealers. I live in the 4th largest city in the US, yet KTM has only commissioned one full-line dealer here despite several others that would like to carry the street bikes (according to him anyway). Don't get me wrong: In my opinion, a used Buell XB or 1125 model probably represents the best value in motorcycling today, period end of sentence. You can't go wrong there. I paid $4200 for my Uly three years ago just before the HD-Buell meltdown - stupidly awesome bike for that kind of money. But, faced with the decision again, I would probably pony up for the KTM instead. Is it twice the bike? No, not at all. But bikes are more than the sum of their parts. For me, the KTM hits all the right buttons in ways that other bikes don't. So is it worth twice as much? That is a question you'll only be able to answer if you ride one. True love is priceless. I came very close to getting a Triumph Tiger 800XC, but an extended trip with one didn't sell me on it for the exact reason that you are concerned with - it both was and wasn't better than the Uly when it came down to it. I am also tempted by Yamaha's excellent Super Ten, but it is rivaled by the Uly's virtues as well. When I do replace the Uly, there is a good chance be with another KTM despite the dealer issues and high asking price. There is something special about the taste of orange kool-aid. | ||
| Dmcutter |
Well, Buewulf, Tonka build quality notwithstanding, how would you rate the handling and the feel of the engine compared to the KTM? The particular Uly I'm considering has an EBR ecm to smooth out the stock flat spot in the torque curve (per the owner) so I imagine it runs a little better than a stocker...but having just read your profile and seen your comments on the engine, I think I know the answer to that one... | ||
| Buewulf |
I have always found the handling of the Uly to be a little wonky at sub-30mph speeds though very capable at faster, sweepier curves, but mine is an '06. I've been told by another member on here that the 08+ bikes are set up a little differently than my '06 which makes the lower speed handling much better, but I don't know firsthand. I have had the Buell for three years now, but I still don't have the confidence to push it to its potential. The KTM has a very natural feel to me and is a riot in the handling department. I could rock it immediately. The KTM makes much more power than the Buell, so it really isn't a fair comparison in the engine department. Torque is good from about 3500rpm to 8000rpm with the sweet spot probably in the 4000 - 7000 range. Redline is close to 10K, though there isn't much point revving it past 9K. The nature of the engine is so much fun - you will find yourself lighting it up every chance you get. You really need to ride one - it is the only way to know. Most guys here feel exactly the same way about their Ulys. It's an emotional thing. | ||
| Idaho_buelly |
"Most guys here feel exactly the same way about their Ulys. It's an emotional thing." Well said!  | ||
| Jstav2012 |
I just rode my freshly tuned Uly (with a map I put together using various sources), and it now runs and handles like I had hoped it would when I purchased it about a year ago. It is truly amazing. I paid $4K for this 2006 bike with all luggage, in good condition, ~13K miles. I have owned the single cylinder KTMs, good bikes, and was interested in the KTM 990ADV, although it has always looked kinda goofy to me. The SMT and Super Enduro aren't bad looking machines IMHO. Neither look as comfortable or tourable as the Uly. though. Of course, I now am lusting for the new 2013,4 KTM 1190 version that has been sighted, but it will cost 3 or 4x what I have in the Buell. Guess I'll have to wait until I can pick up a used model! | ||
| Dmcutter |
I have more or less talked myself into another Uly. I spent a lot of time over the weekend watching videos of people riding them off road and I don't think that the SMT has any better off road chops since that's the focus of the ADV. The increased steering radius over the 06 and the changes to fan logic and higher redline will probably eliminate the things that drove me the most nuts. I've been going over headlight upgrades here on the board...I live out in the country and my wife's biggest fear when I'm on a bike is that I'm going to t-bone a deer dashing across the road. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Swap to XB9 primary gearing if you want to do a lot of offroad. That raises cruise RPM though, so I'd stick to doing that on 08 or later bikes (with better oiling and a bigger crank bearing). | ||
| Pontlee77 |
and above 6k revs the ktm starts to vibrate. | ||
| Turf_moor |
I used to have a 950 Adv and took a 2006 Uly out for a demo. At first I wasn't impressed but after an hour in the saddle I was hooked. It's the torque and the handling. Some time later I wrote the 950 off and went straight out a bough an 06 Uly first registered in Feb 2008 for a big discount. A little less than I received from the insurance company for the written off two year old 2005 950. I still prefer the Buell and I think it's a better tourer as it's more comfortable. I've got another bike as well so it doesn't get used that much now but in 4 years 7 months I've done 19200 miles with next to no issues. A broken delt and a broken wire that stopped the clocks. Get the Uly. It's the one you want. | ||
| Buellerxt |
I completely understand your thoughts on wanting a Tenere but being pulled back by the Uly, Buewulf. I test rode the Tenere three times and REALLY liked the bike BUT, my 08XT is a bike that is so good and has so many of the same features. Yeah, it doesn't have ABS, traction control, a center stand, etc., but it is so much fun to ride, has such smooth and QUICK acceleration, is so UNBELIEVABLE in the corners, etc. My 08XT is fun and easy to handle from 1 mph on. I had the 2010 wheel installed and carry the latest belt with me on trips. I see no reason why this bike, as long as it's well maintained, won't go 100,000 miles when my troublesome Electra Glide made it!  | ||
| Towpro |
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/09/ktm-1190 -adventure-r-in-action/ Why not buy the 1190, it's closer to the 1200cc of the Buell | ||
| Dmcutter |
Becasue more is not always better. I had the 150 rwhp in my Kawi ZX10Rs, don't need the horsepower. Don't want a 21 inch front wheel as my time will be spent primarily on the road with limited off pavement forays. Also don't want to pay whatever outrageous amount that thing will cost. And frankly, I don't like the looks that much. I never cared for the slab sided looks of the 990 ADV, but the SMT looks pretty sweet to me. I had looked at the BMW F800 GS but decided it was overkill for what I plan to do and it's fairly huge...I rode the F700GS instead and it was nice, but the engine was fairly dull and the whole thing didn't excite me enough to pay 12 grand out the door with all the electronic gizmos. The appeal of the Uly stems from monster low end torque and a very affordable price. Late model Ulys go for substantially less than a new Kawi Versys, and I'm pretty sure that if I was underwhelmed by the BMW engine, the Kawi with 10 fewer lb-ft of torque is not going to rock my world. | ||
| Buewulf |
I personally think the Kawasaki has a much more lively and spunky, if not faster, engine than the F650GS (haven't ridden it since they changed the name to 700GS this year.) The Versys is also a wonderful handler. However, a used, late-model Uly is definitely a better deal than either in my opinion. | ||
| Dmcutter |
Hopefully I will be in Asheville this weekend and a shop up there has both the Kawi and an 08 Uly available for test rides. I will do them back to back. I guess the Kawi is lighter, maybe 450 wet, something like that, but I can't believe the difference in weight would make up for the dif in torque between the two. I bet the Kawi gets close to 15-20 gal more per mile, though. I am definitely prejudiced towards the Uly but the V may surprise me. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't bet on the Versys being better fuel economy. They get big power out of little motors by things like shorter stroke for a higher redline, which makes for a worse fuel mix, which makes for worse milage. Water cooled also takes longer to warm up, meaning the fuel mixture has to stay richer longer, which really trashes MPG for anything but long road trips. Same reason an XB9 will get lower MPG than an XB12. The Uly will pull 42 mpg all day long even if you wring it's neck, and get closer to 50 if you ride to conserve gas (short shift and avoid large throttle openings). Even with a fat guy like me and full luggage on it. I bet the Versys is more like 35 ridden hard, and low 40's driving gently. | ||
| Reepicheep |
(That being said, everything I have heard about the Versys has been good, it looks like a nice bike. Low end power isn't remarkable, but if you wind it out it has plenty for a safe street rider). | ||
| Buewulf |
Don't bet on the Versys being better fuel economy. I just pinged my brother who has an ER-6N which has the same engine with a slightly different tuning, so I would think economy would be similar to the Versys. He averages 47 - 50 mpg, and he is pretty hard on it. Best he has done is 59 mpg, and worst was 44mpg. So many variables affect mpg that using that as a direct comparison is futile, but it is something to go on. He says that there are a few freaks on the Kawasaki forum that claim averaging 60 - 65 mpg, but most people report averages in the high forties to low fifties for their 650-powered Kawis regardless of which model. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Great, thanks for the information. That's great economy for a "makes revs to make power" Japanese twin. Chuck has been raving about his new one on the Wheelnerds podcast (sold his Uly and bought one). | ||
| Dmcutter |
Ask him how acceleration is compared to the Uly...seems like at similar weights and 60% of the torque it would not be as good. | ||
| Uly_man |
The "looks" of a bike is your own taste. So that is that. I had a sorted 06 Uly and I would still be happy to have it now. The later bikes are just that little bit more refined though and for me better looking with the black engine and frame. My 2010 bike, with a few extra basic "as you might need with any other bike" mods, is amazingly good and I find it VERY hard to think of any problems at all and I am VERY picky on this. I have had more bikes than I can remember and the Uly is the only one I had two of. My 2010 one is the ONLY bike I would pay FULL price for now. That may not seem like much to anyone else but to those who do know me it is almost along the lines of changing "religion" to me. "Tonka" build? Tonka were renowned for there build quality because Kids could not trash them. Apart from a few electrical problems I think the build quality of this bike is as good as any in its class if not better. I have NEVER seen a rusty fastener on either of my bikes. Unlike some of the newer BMWs I see around these days. The F800 is just soooooo bad. From my past I have found the problem parts for "out of production bikes" are the plastic/panels. I could keep this bike on the road forever if I wanted to. The only problems might be the main frame and swing arm. Everything else can be changed or built if need be. It just may take a little more effort is all. Its a bike not a ICBM or a B1 bomber. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Dmcutter, can't speak first hand, but both wheelnerds talked about acceleration. At low RPM's it's a yawner compared to the Uly, but if you keep the rev's up and shift a lot they said it's plenty to keep the grins going and humiliate squids in the twisties. | ||
| Buewulf |
Again, my brother's bike is an ER-6N, but it should be similar to the Versys though I know they are tuned slightly differently. I think the little 650 is a hoot, personally. The Uly will get the hole shot assuming you can keep the front wheel down, but the Kawi catches up in pretty short order. They stay right alongside each other the whole time. I can also tell you that the Kawasaki doesn't need any revs to get moving. It is plenty torquey enough to pull cleanly at any RPM though 5500 on up is where it starts building steam, and it gives me grin fits from 7K - 10K rpms. We are not talking big-twin amounts of torque here of course, but the engine is extremely flexible. Honestly, you have to shift the Uly more often to keep it on the boil than you do the Kawasaki. | ||
| Buewulf |
That's great economy for a "makes revs to make power" Japanese twin. I just read a recent article about the new Honda 700whatever pitted against the Versys and the new Wee-Strom. They got 58mpg with the Suzuki. That is excellent fuel economy for magazine test riders. That is excellent for anyone in my opinion. I have NEVER seen a rusty fastener on either of my bikes. How about a rusty muffler? | ||
| Dmcutter |
Buewulf, sounds like you are getting ready to jettison the Uly in favor of a Kawi...from what I recall reading, the Versys is tuned better than the Ninja...might have a bias towards lower end power. The wheelbase is short, about 55 in, so an inch longer than the Uly but 4 inches shorter than other adventure bikes. With the wide bars I imagine the V will handle on par with the Uly but I don't know that the suspension is as well sorted on rough stuff. | ||
| Buewulf |
Haha. I like the Kawasaki 650 a lot (and Suzuki's little V-Twin too). It is a rambunctious little motor, and it is very nimble only held back back budget suspension. I've considered adding one to the garage so I can have a reliable runabout. The ER-6N really would need suspension work if it were mine. I rode a friend's Versys that he bought new back when they came out, and I remember the suspension being much better than the budget parts on my brother's bike. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I have NEVER seen a rusty fastener on either of my bikes. How about a rusty muffler?" It is the end of the Man as we know it. | ||
| Yjsrule |
I've ridden a couple SMTs, very similar to a Buell in many ways. I will say the 12 models have much better mapping compared to the 2010 I've ridden. It in turn is better than the 08 Superduke. They've tweaked them quite a bit over the years. Yes I work at a KTM dealer, you can ask me any questions and I'll try to answer. Handling is pretty similar, suspension is pretty good as well. For a street bike I like the Buell chassis better and the 990 engine better. Someone should see if the 990 will fit in a Buell frame, now that would be an amazing bike.  | ||
| Turf_moor |
Buewulf. If the Kawa needs less shifting it will be because it's lower geared. Don't you agree? | ||
| Buewulf |
Turf, Lower gearing might mean you would shift sooner in a given gear, but not necessarily less overall. I think it has more to do with the amount of real estate on the tach where the engines make juice. I need to keep the Uly between 5K and the 6.8K redline to keep the burn on, between 6K and 10K for the Kawi. Despite the taller gearing, I burn through the 1.8Krpm Uly powerband faster than 4K Kawi powerband thus a little more shifting on the Buell to avoid embarrassment. If you have an aftermarket pipe and tune, I am sure you have a broader powerband to work with than my stock bike. Also those few extra rpm on the 08+ bikes would come in handy. It feels like the Uly hits its stride just before redline. | ||
| Turf_moor |
I must have a more sedate riding school than you, Buewulf!!  |
