| Author | Message | ||
     Buelldualsport |
Worth the time and $s? Thanks for the input. Be Safe | ||
| Schwara |
Whether it is worth it or not financially ... I don't honestly know. What I do know is that I have been happy with mine, and it gives me piece of mind that I am at least in theory trying to help my belt to last longer and possibly reduce some strain to the bearing on my rear wheel. It should help with side of the road belt changes as well although I have to do that either. Beyond that, I don't know a way to quantify without testing and I know that I'm not set up to do that. I don't believe that I have ever read a bad experience with it. | ||
| Portero72 |
Search this forum for it, and you will likely see as many heated debates on its merit as an oil thread. Plenty of entertaining reading there... | ||
| Buelldualsport |
Already did the search. Seeking input. Thanks | ||
| Afsoc_commando |
I am on the fence on this as well... I do not ride off road, and I don't get on the bike to hard... But I like the idea of helping the longevity if possible. I get 50k or more on my Springer belt and would like to see the same on they ULY belt (Message edited by afsoc_commando on July 31, 2012) | ||
| Froggy |
Heres the deal. It MAY help belt life, it MAY help bearing life. It has been confirmed to make the bike easier to push around, but there is no scientific data or testing to prove that it does anything in regards to belt/bearing life, be it positive or negative. It also looks cool. Only down side is the cost, and the fact you have to buy it from overseas. | ||
| Bpt |
I just installed one at my 20K service with a new belt. Time will tell about the bearings. | ||
| Buelldualsport |
Thanks for the update and input Will be installing new 2010 wheel, new style belt and think we will give the spring loaded tensioner a try. Will order a 2nd spring as backup. Have over 110K on an 06 and 07 Uly without any belt or bearing issues, actually almost 200K on belts if you include the 99X1 and the 2001 S3T. May be worth a try Thanks to all for the input (Message edited by Buelldualsport on July 31, 2012) | ||
| Ourdee |
Froggy, Do you think it would make a mpg difference. | ||
| Froggy |
If my theory is correct, it reduces rolling resistance, which would improve fuel economy. Again, just talking out of my ass, and I don't know what kind of numbers or if a measurable difference is possible. | ||
| Schwara |
I didn't see any noticeable change in mpg, but the bike is easier to push in the garage so who knows ... maybe it's a little easier for the engine to push as well. Like I said, I didn't see any noticeable difference though. BuellDS - If you are ordering an extra FS Tensioner spring could I send you $$ to order an extra for me? I'll send a PM later tonight. Thanks | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had an XB9SX, and I believe it would have been an absolute waste on my particular 9sx. I sold it, and got a Uly, and I could feel what I percieved to be belt binding the suspension (on my particular bike) when wallowing out on big bumps (with my fat butt on it). I didn't buy the free spirits, I just enlarged the holes on my existing tensioner with a step drill. That appeared to solve my percieved problem, makes the belt easier to mount on the road, and makes it roll around fine. I helped a friend install the free spirits unit, it looked cool and was well made. It also required a stack of shims be used correctly to align it, and it apparently needs the springs replaced on fairly regular intervals. I was abivilent when I thought it was plug and play and lasted forever, it became a non starter (for me) when I understood the hassle it was to install and maintain. Others seem happy with them though, who am I to judge. And they do look cool. | ||
| Prowler |
I've had FS tensioners on both of my bikes now for 4 years. I think it was one of the better additions I added to the bikes. Rolls around much easier and takes a thousand pounds of load (probably more) off the belt/bearings when the bike's just sitting there. I've had no bearing issues and the bikes seemed smoother as soon as I bolted them on. I've never replaced a tension spring (although I do have a spare) and I think I added a single shim when mounting them. I'd give it an A+. | ||
| Bossies1 |
Hey Reepicheep, Did you just enlarge the mounting holes slightly to release some of the tension? If so how much bigger did you make the holes? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yes, exactly. I enlarged it, um, a little. It was an SAE (not metric) step drill bit from Harbor Freight (the long one) and I think I went up two steps. But that's from dim memory. It doesn't take much, the belt still has no play, its just not guitar string taut anymore. And for the record, I did not do this on the 9sx, and that bike was pushing 30k miles on the original belt when I sold it with no signs of problems. I did it on the Uly because I did perceive what I thought to be belt binding at extreme travel. I could have been wrong, but this was a free low risk change that also had the side effect of making it easier to do maintenance (I can get that tensioner off now if I am careful without loosening the rear axle). In theory, the best belt life comes from a constant high tension. In practice, there is speculation that tolerance stack up on some bikes (perhaps aggravated by the Uly long suspension travel) has fouled up the theory a little. | ||
| Bossies1 |
Sounds good. Thanks! | ||
| Djohnk |
I saw on another forum that several have had this failure with no support from the manufacturer. Take a close look at the picture, from the way its designed it looks like they want it to fail (I decided not to get one after I saw this):  (Message edited by djohnk on August 01, 2012) (Message edited by djohnk on August 01, 2012) | ||
| Schwara |
I had not heard anything about failures like that much less bad support. I would have to read more on that to comment so if there is a link to this please attach as I would be interested. If this is an installation issue then I'm sure they probably would not support it. It seems like a very well built component to me. I had heard about a batch of bad springs a while back, but upon checking into that it seems like they supported the issue well and now have better control on the springs. I have not heard of one failing in quite some time. I more wanted an extra spring because it is relatively inexpensive and small enough to through into my travel kit as a just in case extra measure. I have had no issues with support as far as answering all of my silly questions go. I did add a bunch a shims on initial installation because I was overly worried about how the belt lined up with the pulley, but realized later they weren't rally needed as the assembly centered itself upon riding a little. It's still OK even with the shims now so I left them. | ||
| Ftd |
I put one on my 06 ULY about a year ago at ~30000 miles along with a 2010 wheel and updated belt. Does roll easier and looks cool. Anything beyond that who knows for sure?? I am trying to make my Uly as bullet proof as possible. I just bought a Tootal TB shaft and might install it preemptively too. FWIW the FS tensioner does reduce the tension on the belt and should make belt installs easier. Frank | ||
| Uly_man |
As the swing arm moves UP it adds more tension to the belt and the bearings. More noted is the extra load on the gearbox output shaft. The FST is designed to "iron" this out. The idea is sound but how well it works is another matter. I had one on my 06 bike and the belt still broke. One came with my 2010 bike. I find it makes gear changes a lot smoother, mpg is the same and it helps with a belt change. I like it on bumpy roads but if I was on the highway all the time I might not bother with one. You do need to fit it right and the washers ARE needed as is trimming the engine belt cover. I am not aware of any spring problems but I did notice that the adjusting nut worked loose on my 06 bikes FST. You also need to check that bit on the other end is lubed up ok. It can seize. NOTHING on a bike is "fit-and-forget". Always check all is ok every now and then. | ||
| Blackjoe |
Schwara, I think this is the thread being referenced about the failure: http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Buell-Firebo lt-XB12-XB9/Troubleshooting/Free-spirits-belt-tens ioner-failure. Hopefully pointing to a non-badweb forum isn't an issue, as this is valuable info for anyone considering the free spirits tensioner. I was about to order one for myself, and stumbled upon this doing my usual pre-purchase research. Now I'm not so sure. I know there are many folks happy with theirs, but man, that design just seems like it's made to fail sooner or later, based solely how little material is left around the roll-pin. | ||
| Trojan |
I was abivilent when I thought it was plug and play and lasted forever, it became a non starter (for me) when I understood the hassle it was to install and maintain. Nothing that is a moving mechanical object can be really described as 'plug and play'. It is very simple to fit the belt tensioner using the supplied shims/washers and isn't a job that even ham fisted mechanics struggle with. As for the 'regular maintenance' issue. the springs needs to be checked about every 5000 miles (which is 5 years riding for some people!) and replaced as a precaution at around 10K. Other than that, the tensioner just needs to be kept reasonably clean and free of crud. That is hardly high maintenance compared to changing a belt or gearbox bearings. I also read the stuff about failures on other forums and believe me they are extremely rare. many hundreds of users don't post on forums that their tensioners are working correctly for years without any problems. Most of the remarkably few tensioner failures that I have seen have been caused by external factors and lack of maintenance rather than inherent flaws in the design. Some had been stripped and re-assembled by owners and it appears they may have overtightened the pivot bolts (this is critical!) which has caused the unit to fail. There was a batch that were incrorrectly tightened during manufacture a few years back but these were all fixed under warranty. At the end of the day, these have beensold for 10 years now and have been proved to work. They work out cheaper than a new belt of bearings, so the choice is yours  | ||
| Djohnk |
"based solely how little material is left around the roll-pin." Look closely at the picture I posted above to see what he means. Where the material tore apart there was a hole drilled for a roll-pin. There is almost no material in that spot. I don't know if they have since changed the design, but when taking into account the following: 1) An obviously weak design as demonstrated in the picture. 2) Several people had the problem. 3) Free Spirits customer service with people who had the problem was not sufficient in my opinion. 4) Many people say its snake oil, does not do much, and geometrically it is not needed (except to help when changing the belt) 5) They are expensive. 6) With my luck it would fail when I am in the middle of nowhere on a trip. I decided not to get one. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Out of all the car and other engines currently running in the world that use a serpentine belt, one or more of them have a tensioner that will work on a Uly with little or no modification. It will work without failing, just like it does on the car. We just need to find it. By the way, it's probly $30. By the way #2, none of them uses a coil spring like on a FST. | ||
| Trojan |
Well Panhead I suggest that you find a $30 tensuioner and fit it to your $10,000 bike and see what happens  Most machine/auto belts run at constant load and certainly don't have to deal with suspension movement of 'shock loads' like the Buell belt drive does, but I don't have to tell experts like you and DJohnk that do I If you don't want to buy one then don't, but please don't make up stupid scare stories that are simply not true just to try and disprove a legitimate product that has been shown to work exceptionally well in more than 10 years of use. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That is actually an interesting idea. I wonder if I kept the one I pulled off the Saab? I have always liked how the stock wheel looks though, lots of gratuitous machining of aluminum. | ||
| Uly_man |
Not a hope in this world of making this sort of thing work? Do not get me wrong I am "all for" a cheap fix but this is not going to happen with this one. Ok a FST is not cheap but its cost is in the same "ball park" as any other custom made part these days. You would pay the same(ish) money for a set of CRG alloy levers or a carbon mudguard. In fact much more. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not to beat a dead horse, but for me it was vague concerns about durability (not unfounded, but not established either) combined with a compelling lack of compelling need for it in the first place. I have over 50k miles split across two XB's now with the factory tensioners (either stock or lightly modified) and I have yet to have any issues at all with the original factory belt. That's my opinion and my experience, if somebody wants to buy and install the free spirits unit, more power to them, and I agree they (if nothing else) look really cool. | ||
| Uly_man |
Oh and nothing to do with that. How have you been Matt? Nice to hear from you. | ||
| Blackjoe |
Who exactly is making up stupid scare stories? Every concern I've seen voiced here or elsewhere seem to be totally valid concerns. The Free Spirits folks, in their response to Bad Karma in the referenced thread, state that the failure rate of these is around 0.2%. That seems remote enough that a free or at least severely discounted replacement would go a long way to assuage any ill will resulting from the break. But they don't do that. Trojan - Since you sell these and you're so utterly confident in them, do you offer any sort of replacement if one of your customers experiences this type of catastrophic failure? If so, I'll probably be ordering one by the end of the month, but I have a feeling that the answer to that question will be "no", and that would speak far more loudly than any claim about them being a proven part. |
