| Author | Message | ||
     Pnw_uly |
Having some issues with electrical spiking and subsequent blowing of headlights - - so far, about six H7 bulbs in the last few weeks. Searched several of the threads to gain some insight on the problem and likely fix, but info acquired has not led to a solution. Background: 2008 XB12XT, 43,xxx miles, electronic mods include: CR turn signals, MotoLight running lights, Kurakyn Voltmeter, and rear top case wired with running and brake lights; none of these mods are recent. Symptoms: Dash mounted voltmeter will randomly "spike" from normal green operating range to the full flashing red, if a low or high beam headlight is functioning, it'll blow. Spikes appear random, sometimes triggered when activating a switch (heated grips, turn signal), more often noticed without any electric "prompting". Efforts to date: 1) Fuses checked 2) Grounds checked for tightness 3) Wires checked for chaffing / exposure 4) Re-located/protected new ECM 5) Replaced Voltage Regulator All H-7s have been the motorcycle variant, always installed with gloves, so didn't diminish the bulb with skin contact. Any insights greatly appreciated. | ||
| Ronmold |
Does it spike at higher or lower RPM's? sounds like stator shorting to ground. That could by-pass the VR and cause a spike. | ||
| Uly_man |
The first question I would ask is why and when you felt the need to fit a volt meter. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it is a long voltage spike, it seems like it would require something wrong with the VR or the VR connectors. If it is a short spike, it could be a transient from a bad ground or something. If you were closer, I'd hook up my new spiffy low brow storage scope and find out... this kind of thing is exactly what I bought it to be able to track down. It was $100, FWIW. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The first question I would ask is why and when you felt the need to fit a volt meter. Likely because of all the threads he's seen here about people's 06/07 Ulys stranding them due to minor charging system problems. Without a volt meter, the first sign you usually have of a charging problem is a dead bike. Thankfully the 08-up XB's seem to be mostly free from these ailments, which were mostly due to that cheap connector behind the front sprocket cover. | ||
| Lastcyclone |
Replace your Voltage Regulator. Be sure to test the stator. The VR may be out because of the stator. You have checked the 77 connector, or is that pre 2008 only? Had the same trouble last Aug. Keep searching, lots of thread on this. | ||
| Od_cleaver |
Reepicheap, Tell me more about the $100 storage scope. | ||
| Uly_man |
What is a "storage scope"? | ||
| Jk651 |
He has replaced the voltage regulator. | ||
| Reepicheep |
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10244 You can get it in different flavors from different sources. An oscilloscope is a way to measure how voltages change over time. Where a multimeter shows "12.8v", an oscilloscope will plot a line over time showing all the voltages that the device measured. If it was really 12.8v, you will see a line across at exactly 12.8v. But if it's 12.8 volts with a 72V spike that came and went before your meter saw it, you will see a spike on the line. They are, of course, stupid expensive. Because people want them to be able to measure radio frequency signals and debug high speed (millions of cycles per second) circuits. But there is lost low end... what about those of use that are happy with 10,000 samples a second or less? I can answer a LOT of questions with 10,000 samples in a second. That's where this guy comes in. It's a simple little low speed digital storage scope. It's a kit project for sure... the software it comes with is functional but clunky. If you reflash it to the BenF firmware, which is simple but requires a cryptic interpretation of several different random postings in different sites, the firmware borders on nice. The first device I got had a crushed connector, and I had to return it for a good one. It's not durably packaged, it misses some convenient features (like an indicator light for recharging or charged), and it can be easily broken if you feed it too much voltage. It ain't a Fluke by any stretch. But it works, and it works pretty well, and is $100. Which is pretty amazing for what it does. And it only has to solve one real hairball of a problem to be worth $100... and this is a nice hairball removal tool. There is a new $200+ version that is 4 channel and a lot fancier. It sounds nice, but I liked the "dirt cheap and good enough" older version. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is a picture of me playing around with it. This is a sample where I was talking into a simple FET microphone circuit, and it captured how music over the IPhone, through a headphone, taped to the mic voice changed the voltage over time.  (Message edited by reepicheep on May 16, 2012) | ||
| Etennuly |
Crusty had this problem for a while. It seems he was chasing a demon. I believe he found it to be the VR. | ||
| Froggy |
Well I hope he fixed it, I don't want to deal with this crap!  | ||
| Desert_bird |
I had a similar problem during a recent trip through South America on my '08 XB12X with about 20K miles on her. First started popping up in South Mexico, then started again in Panama; blowing fuses, burning a new lithium battery and stressing the hell out of my VR. All detected by spiking voltage. (The Kurakyn is valuable early detection for potential disaster/strandings, and saved my hide numerous times. A Uly must have.) Wiring and obvious things all checked out. Suspecting the battery, I traded back to good old lead. No problems till the heat of northern Brazil in the Amazon, where the VR quickly died after several more spikes. I camped with a local mechanic in a beachside party-city and waited 6 weeks for a VR to ship up from Rio. Back on the road and spiking started up again, followed by quickly deteriorating system voltage after just 1000 miles. I finally sourced the problem to an intermittent fault with the stator, which was sporadically grounding when the case got very hot. Opened the case and confirmed with two large bugle-gum sized lumps on several of the stators magnets. Another 2 months to source a new stator and Mosfet VR. Problem solved. Previously, I checked the stator via electrical diagnostic tests but no problems showed up. It took some serious heat and patience for the grounding to become obvious. The third time I checked for continuity between the stator output and ground, and heard that familiar beeping sound confirming a shorted stator. Stators and regulator/rectifiers can be mysterious items to diagnose on the Uly. If nothing else comes up and if you haven't already done so, then i'd suggest peeping in there. I had the same symptoms and with a very well-maintained '08 Uly just getting into the 20K mile range. DB (Message edited by Desert_bird on May 16, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool adventure DB. In hindsight.  Do you mean bubbles on the stator windings? I think that's what you meant. Or did you really find bubbles on the magnets (which are attached to the spinny bit)? | ||
| Desert_bird |
... Brazil: Where toilets flush the other way, they call it 'bugle-gum, and THIS is the latest dance craze! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaVCHEc7dQ4&feature =related&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch %3Fv%3DIswcfCbl43I%26feature%3Drelated | ||
| Desert_bird |
Bill, appreciate the clarification. Here it is. This stuff on two of the stator windings.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Mmmmm, BBQ. Looks tasty! Makes me wonder if you could remove that whole leg and bypass it with a jumper and get back on the road (with slightly reduced power output). | ||
| Pnw_uly |
Wow!! Thanks for all the input, all good stuff. I'll dust off the service manual tonight and see what it takes to inspect/remove the stator, stator cover, etc., as with having done the other things, this appears to be the most likely cause of the repeated failures. I'll report back what I find, thanks again. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Makes me wonder if you could remove that whole leg and bypass it with a jumper and get back on the road (with slightly reduced power output). Either that or hand-wind the bade pole(s) with new magnet wire. As large as that wire is, it wouldn't take long. The trick would be in making connections between the new and old magnet wire and insulating them so it'd hold up in that environment. Maybe JB Weld would work. | ||
| Griffmeister |
The '08 stator is only two wire and if was burned that bad it should show up as a short to ground or at least lower ohms than normal when you ohm out the leads. Have you actually checked the 77 connector? I just put a new VR on my '08 last month for the same problems you're having now. Second one, first one was under warranty. Even though the '08 and up bikes have the latest connector, evidently the Harley tech didn't believe in dielectric grease. When I pulled the connector apart the terminals were green. I believe this is what fried my VR. Just something worth considering. | ||
| Pdento |
I had the same problem last year. I kept burning out headlights to. I had one go out probably with in five minutes of replacing it. Then I replaced the voltage regulator and no more problems. | ||
| Od_cleaver |
Reepicheep, Thanks for taking the time to answer my scope question. That scope or one like it could make its way into my tool box in the near future. I seem to be running into more intermittent electrical problems lately. | ||
| Uly_man |
Thanks Desert Bird. Handy info to know. | ||
| Pnw_uly |
No significant updates - - procuring the tools needed for pulling all the crap in front of the stator... Since I'm going to be knee-deep in this, figured I'd do the XB9 primary swap as well... Thanks again for all the input, will post some photos when I start the process (most likely a Memorial Day Weekend project). Special thanks to DB for his offer to help once I get too far in over my head. Stay tuned . . . | ||
| Tootal |
Here's a link to when I did mine. 2008 is a little different but the basics are the same. The torque specs are different as is the front nut/bolt? http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/425775.html?1230619985 | ||
| Pnw_uly |
Tootal - Thanks, printed that off, will definitely come in handy (always good to have pictures of the work in progress). . . | ||
| Fung |
I was blowing h7s on my 08 xt, the vr fixed it, for me. Did you recheck your vr connections, mybe got a bad one? |
